| Posted by: shebang at November 2, 2005, 2:12 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | | Blowchunks, please read Jay's reply to your previous post on this same page where he answered the question that you keep on asking. In previous emails, HP stated the established player's account had been fraudulently accessed. In their final email they described the suspicious play by someone who was a breakeven player at low limits. It implies that the money was "transferred" by bogus play between him and a buddy who was playing from the established player's account. A cell phone or messaging service was probably used as well so that when the "established player" had an exceptionally good hand, he would be allowed to win the occasional pot and make the overall play look a tad less suspicious (Just guessing here since we have never seen any hand histories). The goal, however, was to clean out the account and you can estimate (from early posts) that it took about 2 hours once they had gotten it up to heads up play. Despite frequent urges by posters here, Guesswhog has never produced any evidence to legitimi... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: blowchunks at November 2, 2005, 12:50 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Actually, HP never said anything about a "compromized account", or that the OP "broke into his account". They never claimed that the money was "transferred", only that it was WON - in an irregular manner. As a reminder, this is part of what HP's final email to Craig said:
"Nearly all of these funds were won at heads-up poker sessions against the same player, with an astonishing overall gain loss per hand. The fact that this established player suddenly lost so much during the session is extremely suspicious. From analyzing these hands and comparing them against normal styles of play, it is clear that these sessions were highly irregular. The patterns of play were abnormal and the rapid and continual transfer of funds from his account to yours at a heads up table is confirmation that this was not legitimate play."
So, since all of the money in question appears to have been "transferred" via playing poker, are they suggesting that Craig had a way to cheat against this "established player"... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: shebang at November 2, 2005, 11:30 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Kipbond, HP probably investigated the possibility of a "disgruntled girlfriend" and were able to dismiss it. If it had been, the money would not have been returned to the established player. He, in turn, would have been able to legally go after the girlfriend. A disgruntled girlfriend likely would seek revenge in a manner that could be construed as accidental but not criminal.
This is probably a matter of a compromised account, as Alphaunit put it. The established player could prosecute the perpetrators. But, he got his money back, is probably wary of the whole thing and does not want to invest more resources (money, time, and emotions) into legal action. The only punishment readily available is for HP not to return the original deposit (deposits???) to the perpetrator.
The OP was indeed very naive to start this thread and above all to post HP's final email that was so damning. It contradicted all the claims the OP has been making here which he was never able to back up with any eviden... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at November 2, 2005, 8:02 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | KipBond wrote: I'm no legal expert, but I don't think it costs anything to press charges.
No, it doesn't cost money to press charges, that is correct. HOWEVER, in order for those charges to be pushed forward, investigators need to confirm details and put together proof. Therein lies the time/resource sink for HWP, as they now have to gather the proof and coordinate with local prosecuters in that person's area to push the case.
Quote: Also, I'm not sure, but I'd hope that it's a crime for a U.S. citizen to hack into a foreign server and steal money.
Of course it's a crime... but did he actually hack into their server, or was it just a compromised account (password)? There is a WORLD of difference between the two. I don't believe anybody here believes that the OP was a world-class computer hacker who broke through HWP's security screen - the allegation is that he may have known/found this high-roller's password and was logging into the account that way.
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| Posted by: KipBond at November 1, 2005, 11:14 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: Press charges on him? Hollywood Poker is a foreign corporation, not US-based. Pressing charges would not only be a serious time and resource sink, no US-based prosecuter would feel compelled to help a foreign firm with a gambling debt incurred when online gambling is still a very "grey" area of US law.
I'm no legal expert, but I don't think it costs anything to press charges. Also, I'm not sure, but I'd hope that it's a crime for a U.S. citizen to hack into a foreign server and steal money. The state or federal government would try the case, which should not hinge around what the foreign servers were used for. It's cut and dry: he broke into a server and stole money. That's theft. $40,000 makes it a felony crime. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at November 1, 2005, 4:45 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Press charges on him? Hollywood Poker is a foreign corporation, not US-based. Pressing charges would not only be a serious time and resource sink, no US-based prosecuter would feel compelled to help a foreign firm with a gambling debt incurred when online gambling is still a very "grey" area of US law.
I think they chose the most reasonable mechanism they had - they locked his account and banned him, then retrieved money they claim was never legitimately his to begin with.
With his latest post, guesswhog79 basically sunk himself for good. His attack on HWP appears to be a grudge situation, and since he consistently seems to want to avoid posting any significant details - of any kind - I've come to the conclusion that he is full of shit.
Sad thing is, when this situation first came up, I actually put on hold joining HWP because it was a bit concerning - his initial post seemed to be a lot of BS, but the followup posts seemed to show a more serious issue. I don't believe t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KipBond at November 1, 2005, 4:21 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | | shebang: do you think HP knows that Craig was involved in the hacking of the EPs account? Isn't it possible that a disgruntled girlfriend did this, and Craig is the lucky beneficiary of that? I would think in that case, HWP would not be responsible for the money that was lost in the EPs account, as it wouldn't be fair to take the money back from Craig, since he won it. But, not only did they do that, they also banned Craig. They must have some substantial evidence to show that Craig broke into this account. If so, why not press charges or something on him? Isn't breaking into someone's account a crime? Craig is either a moronic thief, or a naive bystander. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: daneq at November 1, 2005, 2:35 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Jay wrote: blowchunks wrote: daneq wrote: whats wrong with playing for a lot of money and winning? what would the site get angry about? the rake being too much for them? Or was he obviously transferring cash frauduantly... it's either total horseshit from OP for... waht reason? fun? or PR suspected fraud
How the hell can someone transfer cash fraudulently anyway, if HP returned the money to their "established" player! What, he "hacked" into his account and stole the money?!?! Or maybe he typed on chat: "OK, I have a gun and this is a stickup - give me all your chips!" I don't get it.
My inference is this:
Other Player reported that his account had been hacked and emptied. HWPoker investigates and sees that sure enough, the account was used to play high-stakes heads-up poker and lost $40k in one night, very different from that account's normal playing pattern. They then look at the player who won the $40k, and see that the high-stakes heads-up play i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: shebang at November 1, 2005, 1:12 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Mikke_ wrote:
No deposit from me until it is resolved.
GL
Here's the problem for HP, as i see it: In their final decision email they are stating that a security leak did occur and someone's account was fraudulently accessed and cleaned out. (Mind you, despite 6 pages of requests in this thread, the OP has not provided a shred of evidence to the contrary.) Because the dollars involved were so large, it showed up the next morning in HP's security reports with all kinds of red flags. Now, if the dollars involved had been relatively small, say 500-3000, would it still have made their security reports and jumped out as something suspicious/irregular and worthy of their investigation??? If you had 2K at HP and find only 1K in your account the next time you log in (and you hadn't played at all because you were away for a long weekend) is HP going to investigate this for you or have they already processed a withdrawal to the person who helped himself to part of your acct ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jay at November 1, 2005, 12:28 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | blowchunks wrote: daneq wrote: whats wrong with playing for a lot of money and winning? what would the site get angry about? the rake being too much for them? Or was he obviously transferring cash frauduantly... it's either total horseshit from OP for... waht reason? fun? or PR suspected fraud
How the hell can someone transfer cash fraudulently anyway, if HP returned the money to their "established" player! What, he "hacked" into his account and stole the money?!?! Or maybe he typed on chat: "OK, I have a gun and this is a stickup - give me all your chips!" I don't get it.
My inference is this:
Other Player reported that his account had been hacked and emptied. HWPoker investigates and sees that sure enough, the account was used to play high-stakes heads-up poker and lost $40k in one night, very different from that account's normal playing pattern. They then look at the player who won the $40k, and see that the high-stakes heads-up play is unusual for that ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: blowchunks at November 1, 2005, 12:20 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | daneq wrote: whats wrong with playing for a lot of money and winning? what would the site get angry about? the rake being too much for them? Or was he obviously transferring cash frauduantly... it's either total horseshit from OP for... waht reason? fun? or PR suspected fraud
How the hell can someone transfer cash fraudulently anyway, if HP returned the money to their "established" player! What, he "hacked" into his account and stole the money?!?! Or maybe he typed on chat: "OK, I have a gun and this is a stickup - give me all your chips!" I don't get it.
This is just going in circles. I need a drink. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: daneq at November 1, 2005, 11:08 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | | whats wrong with playing for a lot of money and winning? what would the site get angry about? the rake being too much for them? Or was he obviously transferring cash frauduantly... it's either total horseshit from OP for... waht reason? fun? or PR suspected fraud | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jay at November 1, 2005, 10:41 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | guesswhog79 wrote: The best I can hope for at this point is for the Attorney Generals office to indict James Woods and any other celebrity that provides advertisement for this site.
I'd think with the whole Karl Rove/Scooter Libby thing going on, people would have some sense of what's involved in indicting someone. The prosecutor would have to convince a grand jury that there was enough evidence of a crime to warrant a trial.
What exactly are you offering the A.G. that would cause him to take on James Woods? If you can't even convince a bunch of poker degenerates on a website, I don't think your chances are very good in a criminal complaint.
The mail you posted from the poker room says that you played lower limits for a few weeks, and then suddently moved way up in limits, heads up, and won a ton of cash. That's not what you said here originally. Which is the truth? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: shebang at November 1, 2005, 10:32 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Rofl. From the OP's very first post in this thread:
guesswhog79 wrote: According to HollywoodPoker.com....I won too much money on their site. They have confiscated legitimate winnings of $40,000. I can back up every claim that I make. .... They are NOT saying that I cheated or broke rules
Hmmm, they are really implying that you did cheat. Many posters here (and lotsa lurkers from the online poker community) are assuming the same since any support for the veracity of your claim was NEVER forthcoming. Any reasonable person would do his utmost to clear his name, and not just a screenname but his real name! Maybe the Attorney General won't be as demanding as the posters here and just take his word for it rather than expecting supporting evidence. Yeah, right. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: KipBond at November 1, 2005, 8:36 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | I don't believe him anymore. Even if he doesn't have the HHs, then he can answer the other questions in regards to his story not matching HWPs story. Provide a detailed history as best he can remember on how he made and lost his money, any deposits made, etc. He posted his name & picture, and that led me to believe he was being honest. But, he's either being dishonest, or is incredibly naive to think we can believe his testimony without proving more details.
PS: The Attorney General will need lots of details, too, Craig. So, if you are serious about pressing charges against them, then you best start getting some supporting evidence to prove your case. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: blowchunks at November 1, 2005, 7:58 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | OK, so now he's got an excuse - next we'll hear, "Yeah, that's the ticket, I didn't have my statistics enabled, so THAT"S why I can't show anybody the HH's. Yeah...".
But I'd like to hear from a SINGLE other person on this forum that doesn't keep track of their HH's religiously. I, for one, know that there are sites that if I can't keep track of hands with PT, I tend to avoid altogether (Bodog, for example - even though I love playing there, dammit). Tracking your play just seems crucial to me - doesn't matter if you're a noob or experienced, or if you play low-limits or high-limits. You don't think the pro's study this info? Of course they do. So then why does he act like he either doesn't even know what a HH is, or is never the slightest bit interested in them. Doesn't seem plausible to me, but then maybe it's just me and most other players don't bother tracking their play. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Pokerdogg at November 1, 2005, 6:49 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Yawn, same old, same old. Give us some information and we would care, otherwise it just more accusations with nothing to back it up. How did you build up your bankroll over the ~2 weeks period to switch from low limits to the $300/$600 game you played? Have you checked your hard drive for hand history? I don't know about Hollywood Poker specifically, but Pokerroom allows you to store hand history on your hard drive. Look in a folder called:
C:\Program Files\[name of the site probably]\Resources\Databases. If there is a file with an .db extension, that would be your hand history. Just need to load that into Pokertracker, then you can see a complete history of your play. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at October 31, 2005, 11:05 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | guesswhog79 wrote: Holy Smokes !
I did assume that this thread had died out. Just because I'm off playing live poker doesn't mean that I've given up my battle nor does my absense indicate anything other than that I'm absent.
I really have no method of obtaining my hand histories and Hollywoodpoker still won't talk to me, they also won't give me my deposit money as they claimed that they would. The other odd point of interest is that they refuse to provide me with the other guys average win per hand, it's pretty simple, they're crooks.
The best I can hope for at this point is for the Attorney Generals office to indict James Woods and any other celebrity that provides advertisement for this site.
According to Hollywoodpoker.com it's ok for a new player to move up into the bigger rooms but they're not allowed to win. That's the flat out bottom line.
They have stolen my account.
They have stolen my deposits.
Hollywood... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: guesswhog79 at October 31, 2005, 7:05 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Holy Smokes !
I did assume that this thread had died out. Just because I'm off playing live poker doesn't mean that I've given up my battle nor does my absense indicate anything other than that I'm absent.
I really have no method of obtaining my hand histories and Hollywoodpoker still won't talk to me, they also won't give me my deposit money as they claimed that they would. The other odd point of interest is that they refuse to provide me with the other guys average win per hand, it's pretty simple, they're crooks.
The best I can hope for at this point is for the Attorney Generals office to indict James Woods and any other celebrity that provides advertisement for this site.
According to Hollywoodpoker.com it's ok for a new player to move up into the bigger rooms but they're not allowed to win. That's the flat out bottom line.
They have stolen my account.
They have stolen my deposits.
HollywoodPoker.com is not ethical an... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: shebang at October 25, 2005, 9:36 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | The burden of proof (actual proof not vague statements that sound nice but don't hold up when closely examined) has been with guesswhog since he started this thread calling HP thieves. Highrollers win and lose $40K or more regularly; nothing suspicious about that. What is suspicious is to play at low stakes with average wins/losses for 14 days and on day 15 (Sept 12) win, move up to a much higher limit, win, move up to a much higher limit, win, move up to a much higher limit, etc. According to HP's email he was not a highroller at their site. Other than mentioning these two tourneys, the OP never gave any indication on what other sites he has been playing such high stakes before. According to OP, he was habitually playing high stakes at HP which lent great credibility to the legitimacy of his $40K HU wins but HP clearly paints a different picture (see quotes below).
The $10K pot he won playing 100/200 represents a significant windfall for someone never having played that high limit before at ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: HP-Lori at October 25, 2005, 8:32 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Hollywood Poker takes pride in maintaining confidentiality for each and every player at our site. We certainly would never enter into public disclosure or debate concerning the play of any individual player.
Hollywood Poker takes every possible precaution to make sure that our games are up to date with the most advanced safety and security features available. All personal information sent to the Hollywood Poker servers is always encrypted using the Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) protocol.
Working in partnership with the Ongame Network our security personnel constantly monitor the network for suspicious play and transactions. We take the business of security very seriously. With every investigation, protecting our player's money from fraudulent activity is our top priority.
Regards,
Hollywood Poker | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Pkrbt at October 23, 2005, 5:39 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | | The variance in a high roller's account it's big . I have as an example my room mate's account . He's playing 150/300 pounds limit in cryptologic network and have seen him winning 50.000$/losing 40.000$ in two different days. So that's not something unsual at those stakes. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: WordWhiz at October 23, 2005, 4:58 pm | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Sorry if this has been brought up before--I stopped reading each post after about the third page.
I've never played on Hollywood, but it's a pokerroom skin, right? Pokerroom doesn't have 300/600 tables. At least not now they don't. They have 250/500 and 500/1000. Unless they've changed this recently, the 300/600 games the OP played had to be at a privately created table, which would presumably add to Hollywood's suspicion. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: KipBond at October 23, 2005, 11:00 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Pokerdogg wrote: KipBond wrote: I have posted an "FYI" on Poker Source Online forum and linked to this thread.
Craig, is that you?
Nope.
Quote: Seriously though, I think the burden of proof (as far as this forum is concerned) right now rest with guesswhog79, not with HP.
Agreed. What I was saying, was that in my mind, the site has the burden of proof to show that Craig did something wrong, in order to take $40k out of his account. In court, I'm sure they'd have to show that. But, I agree... as far as convincing us, neither HWP nor Craig has any real burden. But, if I were HWP, I'd at least try to post something that leaves the burden on Craig (what "shebang" said in a post after yours). If I were Craig, I'd be doing everything I could to corroberate my story. But, I'm not Craig.
Quote: Sorry to doubt you KipBond, but you only have two posts, both on this topic, and you signed up since Guesswhog79 last posted. You ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: shebang at October 23, 2005, 10:35 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Pokerdogg wrote:
Seriously though, I think the burden of proof (as far as this forum is concerned) right now rest with guesswhog79, not with HP. I am sure HP cannot openly discuss the details of the case, it will be a violation of their own privacy T&C. Guesswhog79 has been strangely absence.
Absolutely. What HP could do though is post that they have just emailed guesswhog ALL his hand histories and records of all his deposits and other transactions and saying that he is free to post them here!
I sure would like to see for myself the evolution of this account from $1K to $100K and then coming down to just a paltry $40K, all this in a matter of days. Sure would like to see some HH of those $10K wins and losses against those 20+ players, too. OMG, am i asking for HH again? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: shebang at October 23, 2005, 10:13 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Pokerdogg wrote:
In one of your earlier post:
guesswhog79 wrote: Shebang,
Over a 3 week period I would say that I've wagered over $2,000,000 on the site playing 90% of the time in big wagering rooms. There must be over 20 players that I won and lost over $10,000 to. I had the account upwards to 100k at one point.
This contradicts the statement in Lori's email:
guesswhog79 wrote:
Your account has been under suspicion since it appeared on a daily security report for sudden large winnings on new accounts on the 13th of September. You began playing at Hollywood Poker on the 29th of August, and for your first 2 weeks you played small tables with fairly normal gain loss per hand and small wins/losses. By 8:00 AM on the 13th of September your balance had risen to an exceptionally large figure, which represents an abnormal change in play pattern. Nearly all of these funds were won at heads-up poker sessions against the same player, with an... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Pokerdogg at October 23, 2005, 10:11 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | KipBond wrote: I have posted an "FYI" on Poker Source Online forum and linked to this thread.
Craig, is that you?
Seriously though, I think the burden of proof (as far as this forum is concerned) right now rest with guesswhog79, not with HP. I am sure HP cannot openly discuss the details of the case, it will be a violation of their own privacy T&C. Guesswhog79 has been strangely absence.
Sorry to doubt you KipBond, but you only have two posts, both on this topic, and you signed up since Guesswhog79 last posted. You have also gone to some trouble cross posting a link at Pokersourceonline. Just seems suspect. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at October 23, 2005, 10:08 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | Without Craig's permission, I don't think that Hollywood can post anything here. That would be a gross breach of privacy for them to discuss this in a public forum without his explicit permission. Waiting for them to explain themselves is highly unlikely, and a waste of time.
Much of Craig's story sounds plausible, but unfortunately there are parts that don't make sense with the current information he has provided. He was willing to post the email that HW sent him, which cast his claim into very dubious light, which actually strengthens his position somewhat since he wouldn't post it if he thought it would make his case look weaker.
However, he seems unwilling (at least to this point), to provide a chronological sequence of events (deposits, play records, etc) and hand histories to corroborate his side of the story. Until I see very specific information from him (not vague "I made a few deposits after that" type statements), I will most likely continue to believe that there is someth... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KipBond at October 23, 2005, 8:58 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | | I have posted an "FYI" on Poker Source Online forum and linked to this thread. I think it would be in Hollywood Poker's best interest if they would post on here explaining why they chose the course of action they did (assuming they are able to do so legally). There are lots of people that will see this, and think that HW's actions seem a bit shady. But, I'm sure most of us would really just like to see the hand histories to judge for ourselves. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at October 23, 2005, 6:56 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | When I was a little boy (when I was just a boy)
And the Devil would call my name (when I was just a boy)
I'd say "now who do, who do you think you're fooling"
_________________
Real American Heroes, today we salute Mr. hot ceramic man maker! A home isn't a home without a gnome! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: roque_jr at October 23, 2005, 6:01 am | | Topic: Hollywoodpoker.com are just thieves...stay off the site... Forum: Bonus Whores | with the main problem here, resolution could easily be achieved by the original poster importing the database from hollywood poker (already on his hard drive) into poker tracker and then uploading the relevant hand histories here...this would quickly credit/discredit his cause and we could all move on
the problem is, whenever this solution is mentioned the original poster seems to baulk at it and speak about other things...so mayb something can be inferred from this conduct? | | Static Link |
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