| Posted by: porkrind at November 21, 2005, 3:55 pm | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | Playing online poker as a break even player and bonus chaser has proven to me that I will probably never make the money at the WSOP. Prior to finding this site I just knew I was the greatest poker player ever but the cards were not falling right. Now I know better plus I don't drop my winnings in a slot macine, the BJ tables or some strippers G-String anymore. Thanks to being a bonus whore I have gone from losing $500 a month in casinos to 'making' $600-700 as a BW for a much smaller investment in time. Add to that my girlfriend likes seeing me at home rather than the Casino/Cardroom it is +EV all around for me.
Back to my original point. I read once that the only way to truly make money gambling or during any craze/boom is to be the one providing the 'Means' for people to gamble. Like the Gold rushes in the 1800s Pick Axe salesmen became millionaires, the miners went broke and Corporations ended up with all the goldmines.
In the 60 Minutes story they spoke with the CEO of the Mirage ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jim Morrison at November 21, 2005, 2:00 pm | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | Gonzo787 wrote: I can do a lot with 15k, to Jim that's what....2 or 3 solid nights at a strip club?
At least 5 nights, most likely more. I have never spent more than 3k at an US strip club. I may have at 7th Heaven in Tokyo but I was so drunk it's still fuzzy.
BTW, no more Vegas strip clubs for me. I've promised that I won't go anymore. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jim Morrison at November 21, 2005, 1:58 pm | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | andrew26 wrote: Jim Morrison wrote:
Totally true. I was addressing more the people who have been bonus whoring forever and even though they have played tens of thousands of hands they are still grinding low limits and are barely better than break even. I don't get it at all. After that many hands if your skill hasn't improved then maybe this isn't for you.
Since you seem to be (intentionally or not) describing me, I will address this.
I have been bonus whoring "forever," meaning since late 2003. I am still playing ("grinding") what you would consider "low limits" but have been moving up in levels slowly, as I feel comfortable, first from 1/2 to .10/.25 NL, and now to the .25/.50 NL at Absolute.
I think it is wrong to assume that because a person chooses to play a lower level than what you would consider mid- or high- limit games, that their skill level is less than yours. A friend of mine has over 6000 hands on me in his PT datab... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Gonzo787 at November 21, 2005, 1:33 pm | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | I think everybody plays for their own reasons, and I'm certainly not going to judge the validity of why a person has or has not moved up. If somebody wants to play 0.50/1.00 and do nothing but bonuswhore, more power to them if they are happy.
It's well documented that I am still a low limit whore. I do this for many reasons (site work, multi-tabling reasons, risk-averse, lack of time to study etc). That being said, If I had more time and there was no such thing as bonuswhoring and I had no other full time job eating my time, I would probably max out at 3/6 or 5/10. I just dont think I have the gamble in me to play anything higher.
I'm probably biased, but I see nothing wrong with a guy who has played 200k+ hands in their lifetime bonuswhoring at 0.50/1.00 or 1/2 10-15 hours a week so they can make 10k or 15k of extra income, especially if they are happy doing it. I come from a fairly modest background and to me that is a decent amount of money. I can do a lot with 15k, to Jim that's what... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: andrew26 at November 21, 2005, 9:52 am | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | Jay wrote: I don't think Jim was addressing you, unless you're not a winning player.
You are right... perhaps I am being a little sensitive this morning.
Upon further review, Jim still talks out of his ass, but this MIGHT not have been one of those times.
_________________
Andrew26 wins pot $.95, with a Royal Flush, spades. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jay at November 21, 2005, 9:48 am | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | I don't think Jim was addressing you, unless you're not a winning player. I think he was talking about people more like ME. I can play break-even poker at 0.50/1 or 1/2 (though I imagine I could be a winning player if I tried really hard). I came to the conclusion that even though bonuses made this profitable, it obviously wasn't the place for me to be.
Others probably still grind away at 0BB/100 (or maybe 0.3BB/100) just for the bonuses, which does seem like a waste of time compared to working a fryolater.
But if you're BEATING the game, even at 1/2 limit or $50 NL, then you're beating the game. You don't have to be four-tabling at 5/10 (and winning) to have poker be worthwhile for you, but I tend to agree that if someone has 20k hands tracked and still isn't making 1BB/100 at their chosen game and limit, then they should probably admit to themselves that they don't have much talent for poker. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: andrew26 at November 21, 2005, 9:35 am | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | Jim Morrison wrote:
Totally true. I was addressing more the people who have been bonus whoring forever and even though they have played tens of thousands of hands they are still grinding low limits and are barely better than break even. I don't get it at all. After that many hands if your skill hasn't improved then maybe this isn't for you.
Since you seem to be (intentionally or not) describing me, I will address this.
I have been bonus whoring "forever," meaning since late 2003. I am still playing ("grinding") what you would consider "low limits" but have been moving up in levels slowly, as I feel comfortable, first from 1/2 to .10/.25 NL, and now to the .25/.50 NL at Absolute.
I think it is wrong to assume that because a person chooses to play a lower level than what you would consider mid- or high- limit games, that their skill level is less than yours. A friend of mine has over 6000 hands on me in his PT database, and has me rated as... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: porkrind at November 21, 2005, 8:01 am | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | | Actually older than thirty and mostly people I know from work, the home game, neighbors...... I am considered a computer expert since I know how to turn one on and people tend to ask me about stuff. Whenever someone asks about online gaming I am worse than an AMWAY salesman. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jim Morrison at November 21, 2005, 2:34 am | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | porkrind wrote: Quote: "A break even whore should probably give it up anyways"
This is a true statement but Bonuses are a great set of training wheels until a player can build a bankroll and an adequate level of experience.
Totally true. I was addressing more the people who have been bonus whoring forever and even though they have played tens of thousands of hands they are still grinding low limits and are barely better than break even. I don't get it at all. After that many hands if your skill hasn't improved then maybe this isn't for you.
BTW, you suck at quoting. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: porkrind at November 21, 2005, 2:14 am | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | "A break even whore should probably give it up anyways"
This is a true statement but Bonuses are a great set of training wheels until a player can build a bankroll and an adequate level of experience.
One other point is that once the corporations take over affiliates, gnomes, Refer a friend schemes will be a thing of the past. The corporations will do their own marketing and recruiting. That will hurt sites like this and 1000s of other wannabes. I myself have 19 real friends/players I referred to a particular site grinding away right now and I am earning a little bit of the rake. Now it is only about $50 a month but enough to notice in the long run. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jim Morrison at November 20, 2005, 11:53 pm | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | Grinder wrote: There IS life after whoring. I think whoring holds people back from making REAL money.
Very true.
Quote: break even Bonus Whore would have to give it up.
A break even whore should probably give it up anyways. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: porkrind at November 20, 2005, 9:21 pm | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | The major US gaming corportations are extremely profit oriented and for the most part only tolerate poker players. Unitl the recent WPT/WSOP boom poker was largely an ignored component of most US land based casinos. 'IF' the US were to legalize, license and regulate online gaming poker players will probably take the biggest hit.
Casinos rely on 'Comp' programs and gimmicks to keep gamblers interested and the house always has the edge............. Think along the lines of Party's current promotions. BJ and sidebets, They have very little to do with poker. I foresee a future in free rooms at corportate hotels, disgusting buffets and a crappy cashback scheme.
US taxes could be withheld immediately from your big win at the tables and tourneys. Do you think the IRS is not slobbering all over itself to get at our bonus profits? Foreign players also beware the IRS would consider online profits as generated in the US and you would be taxed as well. Kick in the 34+% sin tax my state charges on gambling p... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: some random dude at November 20, 2005, 8:02 pm | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | Overdrive wrote: Quote:
2. US legalizing on-line gaming - The largest lobby (Las Vegas) will never let that happen.
.
Many, if not all, of the major corporate 'Las Vegas' casinos have changed their views on this. On todays 60 minutes story on internet gambling the president of MGM said he favors and is pushing for licensed and regulated control of internet gambling in the US. He said the MGM would double it's profit in one year if they could offer legal US based internet gambling.
That would kick so much ass, imagine the big casinos all opening new poker platforms --> entering an existing market --> aggressive promotion and probably bonuses --> $$$ | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Overdrive at November 20, 2005, 7:36 pm | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote:
2. US legalizing on-line gaming - The largest lobby (Las Vegas) will never let that happen.
.
Many, if not all, of the major corporate 'Las Vegas' casinos have changed their views on this. On todays 60 minutes story on internet gambling the president of MGM said he favors and is pushing for licensed and regulated control of internet gambling in the US. He said the MGM would double it's profit in one year if they could offer legal US based internet gambling. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Grinder at November 20, 2005, 5:46 pm | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: PayPal entering their market, the US legalizing on-line gaming
1. Pay Pal just STOPPED taking in gambling money - I can't see them doing a U turn.
2. US legalizing on-line gaming - The largest lobby (Las Vegas) will never let that happen.
Paragraph #2 is 100% correct. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: DrStrange at November 20, 2005, 10:38 am | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | my $0.02 - - -
Netellter is vunerable to PayPal entering their market, the US legalizing on-line gaming (making credit card charges enforceable) or other international legal issues. Their high fee structure is going to be hard to mantain. Very hard. They only get paid those fees because the players and game sites were caught over a barrel. This will end.
On-line casinos and poker rooms are already beginging the consolidation phase. Pick your stocks very carefully as there are going to be big losers as well as winners. There is no way I be backing a start-up. Only a 600-pound gorilla has a chance starting this late and any such company is not going to need money from small investors. Any new on-line card room who wanted a $1,000,000 or less from a few private investors like us is sure to die an ugly death.
DrStrange | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Cpt. Canuck at November 20, 2005, 1:34 am | | Topic: Investing in Poker Site Companies - Off Topic? Forum: Bonus Whores | With a portion of my poker winnings, I wanted to start investmenting in one or two companies which own and maintiain online poker sites (like Cryptologic), and probably NETeller.
Anyone out there doing this? How have your returns been? | | Static Link |
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