| Posted by: Jetset at February 25, 2001, 11:09 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
WhatCasino.com is a pretty large directory with a few Microgaming adverts. Galaslots doesn't identify its three machine software but claims to offer progressives. Bingogala and Galaslots are definitely linked (e-cash)
Casino Regulator seems to operate out of Adelaide Australia.
Tell us more, CR!
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at February 25, 2001, 8:17 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
"Those listed are not chargeback players but fake and stolen card players.
Do you support such players?"
Oh puhleeze. Whaddya think?
www.casinodetective.com, same server, pretends to be objective, reviews what two sites? People who live in glass houses shouldn't kick the walls.
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at February 25, 2001, 3:42 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
CR, I isited your site, www.casinoregulator.com, and find no indication whatsoever of who you are, where you are, contact phone number, casino affiliation, jurisdictions, industry contacts or memberships, etc. You yourself require:
"--Provide for each user and potential user, particulars regarding who the business is, including the physical office, contact telephone number and facsimile number;"
I did find out that your message board is hosted on the same server as the following commercial sites:
www.bingogala.com www.galaslots.com
and the same server that hosts this supposedly objective review site, but for some reason highly reviews the abovementioned:
www.whatcasino.com
I confess, this all appears to be at contradiction to what you are trying to accomplish in encouraging accountability on the part of casinos and players. Please clear this up for me. I would also like to know the source of your Code of Practice, is it base don any current governm... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: CR at February 20, 2001, 8:41 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
I told you we'd get stick when first posting this lol! OK Steve, you know best. Its now a private forum for casino operators only.
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| Posted by: CR at February 20, 2001, 8:19 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Yes Steve, you do have a point about the home addresses which I really think are bogus anyway. Just in case though, we will remove them.
Those listed are not chargeback players but fake and stolen card players.
Do you support such players?
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| Posted by: CR at February 20, 2001, 8:14 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Yes prosperity, that is basically what we are saying. The people mentioned, if those are even their real details which I doubt, are basically what you may call "crooks". We do not need such people in this industry. They do no good to the casinos or the honest players.
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| Posted by: Steve Adkins at February 20, 2001, 8:12 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Ahhh someone using what I said against me. I like that.
By posting home addresses you put people at risk. Real risk. If someone posted your home address all over it might make you a little edgy huh?
How does anyone know that these players were not cheated and that is why they chargedback. You say nothing about the players, only that they should not be paid because they have done a chargeback.
I am telling you. If any OPA members names and home addresses gets put on any message board, there will be hell to pay. I will make the GSS thing look like a walk in the park. Why don't you tell us who you are?
Better yet how about you post your home address.
There is nothing wrong with trying to protect both players and casino's. But there has to be a fair balance in there somewhere and you have failed to demonstrate that by the contents of your site.
I hope this is all we are going to hear about the names and addresses being published in a public forum.
I ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: prosperity9035 at February 20, 2001, 8:01 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by CR:
As for OPA members, I would hope that they are honest and would not be using random number generated cards, or making charge backs when they lose.
CR
Spear I think he is saying that the people listed as abusers used random generated cards. Uh what?
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| Posted by: CR at February 20, 2001, 7:35 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Hi guys,
Are we trying to promote honest and respectable online gambling or what?
As for lawsuits and breach of confidentiality, by breaching the terms of the casino agreement, the player is no longer protected by confidentiality and the casino is no longer obliged to follow by those terms.
If you are an honest player you should have nothing to worry about.
As for OPA members, I would hope that they are honest and would not be using random number generated cards, or making charge backs when they lose.
So far we have been protecting player interests. Its about time we looked at the casinos interests. After all, that's the reason we are all here for.
Have a wonderful day!
CR
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at February 20, 2001, 7:35 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
We are supplied with all payout ratios, all wagers are recorded and we have tested their random number generator used for gaming algorithms.
Littele ambitious aren't you, CR? You've just guaranteed that no casino will EVER be approved by you - there is no way they are ever going to let you anywhere NEAR their RNG.
Nice try - but let the people who know about things like this handle it, ok?
------------------
Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: vickinz at February 20, 2001, 7:24 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
I dont know why casinos don't follow Vegas Strip's example for non-US resident players. I had to fax a filled out/signed faxback form with dob and saying that I had deposited ia credit card number....., won $....., and was withdrawing $..... to be fedexed to my address; along with signed ID and both sides of credit card with some numbers inked out.
Even though I was unjustifiably angry, initially, at having to do all this, and it cost me heaps as it took l4 - l6 attempts to get through to Costa Rica (and I had to pay for each attempt!), I get such terrific service and fedexed payments that it was all worth it. I also have the assurance that they are well organised, know what they are doing and have thought all their procedures through carefully.
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| Posted by: Steve Adkins at February 20, 2001, 6:36 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Hey Cr. I just isted your site. Glad to see that only you post there. I must warn you. If you put on OPA members name in your forum, you will have a legal issue that the OPA will take up with you.
I wonder what casino you own? The chargeback player list should not be posted in a public forum, nor have you stated other then charged back at least once for the reason to have someone listed here.
Your doing the industry a disservice by offering this bogus ass list.
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| Posted by: babe at February 20, 2001, 6:34 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
This is from thier code of practice:
Make sure that transactions are confidential and cannot be interfered with
I have no sympathy for the crooks who are doing unwarranted charge backs or other types of credit card fraud, but doesn't the above statment say the casino has to keep the transaction confidential?
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| Posted by: Casino Guru at February 20, 2001, 4:17 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Just look at that. Emails, addresses all listed. I knew this hot potato will cause more trouble.
Can you imagine the spam those guys will receive. I think they should sue CR for breach of confidentiality.
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| Posted by: Steve Adkins at February 20, 2001, 3:58 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
CR, this forum is not the place to advertise for this type of thing. What you have just offered to do is wrong.
A list, now everyone wants to do a list.
THE ONLY LIST YOU SHOULD EVEN CONSIDER DOING IS A CHARGEBACK LIST. Not a dishonest player list. In that case you would have casino's putting people on this list for no good reason.
The OPA strongly opposes this type of list.
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| Posted by: CR at February 20, 2001, 2:53 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Hi Craig,
I know we are going to get stick from this move, but the damages to online casinos by these players are too great to ignore.
Please feel free to add your dishonest players at www.casinoregulator.com and warn the rest not to pay out to these players!
All the best!
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| Posted by: Martee at February 13, 2001, 10:46 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
I was reading the board earlier and when I got to the bottom of page one there was the top of a message there...listing the date, time, etc..it was in html and I couldn't get to the body of the message, like it was stuck or something. There was no page two. I thought I was in the wrong thread and went thru the other threads then realized that the posts were missing... So my guess there was a glitch that wiped out a lot of the posts...mine included.
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| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at February 13, 2001, 9:53 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Will someone please explain to me how the posts on this thread disappeared?
http://www.winneronline.com/ubb/For...TML/000392.html
Posts on 2/13 between 10:38am and 3:58pm are missing...and all of my posts have disappeared.
Only 44 posts, when the front page there are 60.
How can that happen, and post before and after be completely unaffected?
[This message has been edited by AmateurSleuth (edited 02-13-2001).]
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| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at February 13, 2001, 9:23 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Please send out proper notice to all members, giving sufficient time. This is much too important for a haphazard operation.
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| Posted by: Casino Guru at February 13, 2001, 5:36 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Hi Steve,
How do we find out our user name for the message boards? I know how to log in to the site but are the usernames different from our login?
Thanks.
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| Posted by: Steve Adkins at February 13, 2001, 4:51 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
All right then. Lets ote on it.
correction. Inside the OPA members section is the official OPA forum. All members can log in and ote on this issue.
http://www.onlineplayersassociation.com
Playing4keeps. Send me an email giving up your membership and I will delete your account. No problem
[This message has been edited by Steve Adkins (edited 02-13-2001).]
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| Posted by: zrapture at February 13, 2001, 3:01 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
I agree that OPA should take their time and think this through. I don't think there is need to rush to set up this database right away. I just hope OPA takes the time to set this up correctly, this is not a pressing issue that needs to be resolved immediately.
The committee should ote on it and should also have input on how it works.
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| Posted by: Casino Guru at February 13, 2001, 1:47 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Hi Steve,
I still have not taken a firm position as to whether I support the OPA blacklist. I think it is an idea that deserves more thought and debate.
I understand the rationale and logic behind having to be fair to both players and casinos and the reasons which support the setting up of a database. However, I do know why the OPA members are upset.
Firstly, OPA members joined with the impression that our information is confidential, if it were not, I can tell you that I would definitely not have joined.
Secondly, this decision was taken unilaterally and arbitarily. In fact, it seemed like it was taken on the spur of the moment. Almost as if after reading all the posts which disagreed with you, you just got fed up and announced that you were starting up the database. There was no discussion with the members whom you were supposed to represent and I am not sure if there was a discussion with the executive committee.
Thirdly, such an important decision should... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dave R at February 13, 2001, 10:56 am | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Steve,
What I found to be remarkable about the whole Proc Cyber incident was that after they repeatedly accused you of the chargeback, you repeatedly asked them for proof. You called your bank more than once, and your bank said you never made any chargebacks. Proc Cyber REFUSED to present proof to you of any chargeback. No authorizations. No documentation. Even the highest level supervisors there lied about the situation, and had NOTHING to back it up. They refused to reinstate your account privledges until you raised hell with them about how unfair they were. And yet, even after they re-instated your accounts, they still accused you of making the chargeback, but claimed they would "eat" the 250 loss due to your past play with them.
I think you won too darn much in MGS casinos managed by Proc-Cyber. You were having a streak of amazing luck at the time, hitting more than one royal. If I remember correctly you won 20,000 at Torpedo casino.
So, its ery possible someone wante... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at February 13, 2001, 10:29 am | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
It's in the OPA's own interest to maintain a list of (former and to be former) OPA members that have committed fraud and to actively encourage casinos to report such members.
However, I don't think any olunteer organization has the resources to maintain a database for the industry as a whole. That's a lot of work and there are multi-jurisdictional legal issues involved. I don't think any online casino taking bets from North America will ever take the OPA to court, but an individual gambler certainly could.
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| Posted by: Steve Adkins at February 13, 2001, 6:34 am | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
OH yes I remember the proccyber thing. All to well. Thank God they will have nothing to do with this.
This is stirring quite a bit of anger among the members and I am not sure why.
Any OPA member that gets put on the list would have numerous chances to appeal.
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| Posted by: Jetset at February 13, 2001, 1:13 am | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
I'm with you too, Martee. OPA negative database yes but other publicity no.
Time and number of hands available permitting it would be nice to have the additional service of contacting the guy and extending to him or her the same facility which OPA gives to accused casinos - a complaint has been made and he or she has the opportunity to respond to it.
I think all casinos carry this chargeback problem and ery few of the chargebacks are truly justified. A move like this which assists OPA casinos in minimizing the problem is a good and fair service to offer and emphasizes the OPAs even-handed approach to members and member casinos alike.
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| Posted by: craig at February 12, 2001, 8:36 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Guess what, I finally hounded that plaer down and spoke to him on the phone earlier in the day. At first he wasn't sure who I was, but then when i started telling him about www.pyramidcasino.com and the gift(home entertainmentsystem) he recived, he did not deny anything. Afterwards, he said he was on his cell phone and he would call me back later in the afternoon. Of course, he did NOT call back! I will will be calling him again tomorrow and I wil keep you all posted. By the way everyone, we receive thousands of dollars in chargebacks a month in which we swallow, but this one I will not let die because of the past relationship we had with this player.
Craig Levett
Casino Manager www.pyramidcasino.com
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| Posted by: Dave R at February 12, 2001, 6:13 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Speaking of honest players...
Steve - remember a year or so ago when Proc Cyber LIED and accused you of making a chargeback for $250?
The supervisor Vincent and the head of bathroom security Chaarles Baard made you out to be the bad guy, and could have gotten you blacklisted from every MGS powered casino.
The moral of the story is that there is a small but real possibility honest players might appear on your OPA database. A player needs to have the right to appeal.
Dave
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| Posted by: Steve Adkins at February 12, 2001, 5:45 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Martee, I am with ya caller! Your my favorite OPA member and I would not argue with you if someone paid me. ha ha
We would have to be ery carefull about this database. I would be ery concerned that a honest player might end up on this list. We would just have to monitor it.
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| Posted by: chipster96 at February 12, 2001, 12:37 pm | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
Craig, can't you end the player's career by submitting the name to a negative database like the IGC's Citadel?
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| Posted by: Martee at February 12, 2001, 10:39 am | | Topic: Dishonest Players?? Forum: Winner Online |
When this discussion started out it was about listing confidential information on message boards....
I had infact said. "The casinos would be better off publishing at a site of their own than on a public message board. It would keep all the information in one place not scattered throughout hundreds of messages boards. It would also be easier for them to keep up with than scanning the boards to see if another name was added."
I myself see no problem with the OPA having a negative database for players as long as private information is not published for everyone to see and the accused players are given the same chance to redeem themselves like the casinos.
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