| Posted by: smitee at May 30, 2001, 7:14 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
My question is: As far as Riverbelle and Procyber is concerned, has anyone ever experienced double billing or fradulant charges on their credit card? I had several transactions this month that were made when I was at work and no one was home. Are their transactions recorded on a delay?
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| Posted by: CasinoNow at May 30, 2001, 1:53 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
I tried to give infinia a chance, but it just never worked. It took me a couple of months to get a card, and when it finally did come, it had the wrong name on it (L. Garner). I contacted them immediately about the problem, and was told a replacement would be issued immediately. It never came. I gave it a lot of time at first, assuming that it would take as long as the first one did. After a couple of months passed I contacted them again, and was told that they have temporarily stopped accepting new accounts. That was the extent of my experience with them, and was enough to show that they were really amateurs when it comes to financial systems, and I would prefer to not use them anyway.
Jerry Garner
CasinoNow Gaming Resource Center
http://www.casinonow.net
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| Posted by: Dirk_Dangerous at May 29, 2001, 1:30 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Microgaming payments:
They do have a lot of options, but it seems as if every other week they are coming up with new ways to get paid (I'm thinking of Infinia, which I don't think ever really caught hold with players).
However, with the exception of outright crooks like Tropika, I've never had a problem getting paid by a Microgaming site. IMO, Microgaming casino owners are almost always well funded (again Tropika is an exception).
But since Microgaming's card games are probably non-random, all Micro casino owners should have no problem making money. And if they aren't making money, they are just plain stupid, and should be relegated to the dustbin along with all the other former online casinos.
Dirk
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 29, 2001, 9:10 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
As Dirk correctly pointed out, I don't live in the US.
Besides, I was only teasing. Checks are not my preferred form of payment, however if I recall correctly there is no other way to get paid by WebDollar except by check - actually, I think there is a wire option but I can't remember. EFS is similar.
Microgaming aries from one provider to the next. Some are quite quick by ACH and PayPal, others are sometimes ery slow. On the whole I don't think I would rate the system highly, though you gotta give them marks for having the most options.
AS - re the two casinos, you were then, and still are, wrong about that issue. The casinos were not at fault; NetPro was, and I uncovered that myself.
I am still digging into the NetPro issue - I heard that their transactions will be freed up in about a month or two, but frankly NetPro is as good as dead. And meanwhile you have found those two casinos to be running as normal.
I might point out that they are also amongst the f... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: DONGAMBLER at May 29, 2001, 7:50 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Spearmaster wrote "Can't argue about the payments issue, I guess. Although it takes me more than a month to get a check out of WebDollar..."
I have received dozens of checks from Webdollar and never has one taken longer then 2 weeks to reach me from the cashout date. The average is about 7-8 days.
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| Posted by: CasinoNow at May 29, 2001, 7:43 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
I can not agree with that. The last three checks I received from WebDollar (coming from two separate casinos) all arrived within 3 days, which is about the time it takes them to get here ia mail. I've never had to wait a month ever, certainly not the 3 to 6 month spans I have had to wait at multiple MG sites.
Jerry Garner
CasinoNow Gaming Resource Center
http://www.casinonow.net
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet:
Can't argue about the payments issue, I guess. Although it takes me more than a month to get a check out of WebDollar...
Another good point for me to bring up in Toronto.
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| Posted by: jameswhudgens at May 29, 2001, 7:41 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Djeff:
Wilhelm,
This is such an incredible story I wish it were on international news. Riverbelle is an unlicensed casino. They will not reveal the name of their owner to me. I think I have found them. I lost several thousand dollars in this casino when the game refused on 35 of 40 hands to let me win. They were always coming up with 21 or BJ when I would get 21. When I complained, they had lost the transactions around the time of their fraud. This is so incredible since the odds of me losing this many times are like 1 in 6 million.
See jokers wild / smoke and mirrors for all I could find about riverbelle.com. also new post in this thread.
james
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jameswhudgens@hotmail.com
jameswhudgens@yahoo.com
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| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at May 29, 2001, 7:30 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Riverbelle, Lucky Nugger, Gaming Club and Orbital are all operations run by Microgaming. If there is a problem with any of them, it goes directly back to Microgaming itself. There is no one else to see about these casinos.
YOU WILL NOT!! BET A STRAIGHT ANSWER FROM MICROGAMING!!
A few months ago I complained about Microgaming software, and I was completely ignored, and even ridiculed by some people here. Basically, it was implied that I was a crackpot who did not understand gambling. I am a newbie to gambling period. But I do understand the functioning of systems and people, and how they interact.
A few months ago I posted that two casinos were having financial problems because of the way they were handling their payouts and promotions. I was ridiculed then, and basically called a liar. As it turned out, I was correct.
A few months ago, I posted that Tropika was committing fraud, and was being run by crooks, and was ridiculed and chastised for casting aspersions on the... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: jameswhudgens at May 29, 2001, 6:52 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
All I could find about www.riverbelle.com
WHOIS Query Result for RIVERBELL.COM
The Data in Network Solutions' WHOIS database is provided by Network
Solutions for information purposes, and to assist persons in obtaining
information about or related to a domain name registration record.
Network Solutions does not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a
WHOIS query, you agree that you will use this Data only for lawful
purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this Data to:
(1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass
unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations ia e-mail
(spam); or (2) enable high olume, automated, electronic processes
that apply to Network Solutions (or its systems). Network Solutions
reserves the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting
this query, you agree to abide by this policy.
Registrant:
Microgaming Inc (RIVERBELL-DOM)
P.O. Box 4652
Durban, kzn 400... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: jameswhudgens at May 29, 2001, 6:25 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Djeff:
Wilhelm,
This is such an incredible story I wish it were on international news. Riverbelle is an unlicensed casino. They will not reveal the name of their owner to me. I think I have found them. I lost several thousand dollars in this casino when the game refused on 35 of 40 hands to let me win. They were always coming up with 21 or BJ when I would get 21. When I complained, they had lost the transactions around the time of their fraud. This is so incredible since the odds of me losing this many times are like 1 in 6 million.
Try www.netcraft.com for info on riverbelle.
I found this: 30-Mar-2001 64.39.74.152 Exodus Communications Inc. Toronto
You cna do a search at www.arni.com on the ip address and get more information.
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| Posted by: Portia at May 29, 2001, 1:24 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Jeff/Dirk/spearmstr :
One aspect of this discusion that I am stuck on, and hope you can help, is : Do the "cards" get sent from a "microgamming central" or are they generated from the Casino operators system?
And when a "card" is generated by the RNG system is it grabbed by the the next player in the queue? In other words the more players the more random.
Guys :
Do you keep any data on your play? With Microgamming BJ being slow, there is time take some info down each round. Even if it is not card specific.
Perhaps Bet size, DD, Split, units Won/Lost/Pushed, plyrBJ, dlrBJ ?
Since Bigger bets have a greater impact on outcome of session, it may be interesting to segregate rounds by bet size.
each Bet size;#rounds;#units won lost;probability
Then if there is a pattern where above average bets lose significantly and below average bets win significantly the probability of this occurring can be calculated.
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| Posted by: Jetset at May 28, 2001, 10:57 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
"I have played at HUNDREDS of online casinos and the only ones with CHRONIC payment problems have been Microgaming casinos. And ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS are caused by Microgaming's reckless and foolish policy of allowing licensees to handle players' money. In Cryptologic, Starnet, and Boss Media systems, the licensees can NEVER handle the players' money and therefore it is safe and there is little chance of fraud, embezzlment, or delaying of payments. I can set my calendar by the timely checks I receive from Starnet(EFS), Cryptologic, and Boss Media(WebDollar)".
Wilhelm makes a good point which others have also commented upon - of the Big Four turnkey software companies Microgaming casino players seem to be the only ones with hassles in getting paid.
But on the comment regarding licensees handling players' money, that works well if you have a serious and honest software company I guess. The other side of that coin is GSS. 'Nuff said.
Riverbelle is disappointing - it us... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 28, 2001, 9:04 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Can't argue about the payments issue, I guess. Although it takes me more than a month to get a check out of WebDollar...
Another good point for me to bring up in Toronto.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: Wilhelm at May 28, 2001, 8:47 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by CasinoNow:
I know this is a bit off course for the direction this thread is going, but I can't pass up a thread about Riverbelle without adding my two cents.
At least that was surplus winnings. Back in March, I had to wait 6 weeks to get MY OWN MONEY back to my credit card from Riverbelle. I also had the same exact problem with 7Sultans back in February. I made a cashin at 7sultans on February 20th but did not receive MY OWN MONEY back to my credit card till April 1st. And I check my credit card electronically everyday.
I have played at HUNDREDS of online casinos and the only ones with CHRONIC payment problems have been Microgaming casinos. And ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS are caused by Microgaming's reckless and foolish policy of allowing licensees to handle players' money. In Cryptologic, Starnet, and Boss Media systems, the licensees can NEVER handle the players' money and therefore it is safe and there is little chance of fraud, embezzlment, or delay... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: CasinoNow at May 28, 2001, 7:12 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
I know this is a bit off course for the direction this thread is going, but I can't pass up a thread about Riverbelle without adding my two cents. Even if you get past the software, there is still the matter of getting paid. It took me over 6 months to get a check for $70 (I certainly hope me breaking the bank wasn't the hold up). When the check finally did come, it bounced (oh wait, I did break the bank), causing me to get a $25 fee from the bank.
After multiple attempts to straighten things out through both Riverbelle and Proc Cyber, I was given a fax number that never worked. After multiple attempts at asking for a new fax number, I received nothing but silence, and eventually another form letter that did nothing but list the same number that didn't work.
I let the issue rest for a bit, and about 6 weeks ago made an additional attempt to contact them. This time they gave me a new fax number, and it actually worked. Two weeks passed and I had not received so much as a form letter ack... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 28, 2001, 10:53 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Well, for one thing, Microgaming hold 100% of my action at their blackjack tables LOL.
Now - to say that the blackjack appears to play like a slot machine is one thing.
To say it is dishonest, or to call Microgaming crooked, is another thing entirely.
By the way, all of you ARE making unfounded claims. You either need a reasonable amount of data or an admission from Microgaming to make substantiated claims.
Cycling hundreds of thousands of dollars means absolutely nothing - and you of all people should know that.
If you don't like their blackjack, play something else. Never heard anyone complain about the VP before...
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
[This message has been edited by Got2Bet (edited 05-28-2001).]
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| Posted by: Dirk_Dangerous at May 28, 2001, 10:33 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
Why don't all of you pool your data, get a few million iterations, and see if perhaps there is real substance to your claims?
Why bother. My win/loss data shows that Microgaming holds roughly 3% of all my action at their BJ tables. I believe that anyone else who would bother to collect data, will come up with a similar figure.
I've cycled hundreds of thousands of dollars through Microgaming’s BJ game. After such a large amount of action, my results should be closer to the theoretical house edge of .2% (.002) (assuming a random and fair card game, and a player using correct basic strategy).
This is enough information for me to doubt the games. When the barn is on fire, we don't need a physicist to tell us something is wrong.
In my opinion, Microgaming's card games are not random as dictated by Nevada Gaming Commission regulations.
Sure Microgaming may claim the games are "fair", but what exactly is their definition of what fai... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 28, 2001, 10:22 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
So you played on the 9th and 10th, but no transactions were recorded?
That, I must say, is extremely weird.
In order to do any further checking, I need your account number, but please don't post it here - send it to me instead and I will see if I can get a reply.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: Djeff at May 28, 2001, 9:07 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Ok Spearmaster,
Here is a copy of what I get when I go to Playcheck:
5/8/01 07:14 22752535 View BlackJack 3.00 4.00 1.00 406.00
5/8/01 07:15 22752549 View BlackJack 6.00 0.00 -6.00 400.00
5/8/01 07:15 22752558 View BlackJack 12.00 0.00 -12.00 388.00
5/8/01 07:15 22752569 View BlackJack 20.00 0.00 -20.00 368.00
5/8/01 07:15 22752585 View BlackJack 20.00 0.00 -20.00 348.00
5/8/01 07:16 22752600 View BlackJack 40.00 80.00 40.00 388.00
5/8/01 07:16 22752612 View BlackJack 2.00 4.00 2.00 390.00
5/8/01 07:16 22752626 View BlackJack 4.00 0.00 -4.00 386.00
5/8/01 07:17 22752639 View BlackJack 8.00 16.00 8.00 394.00
5/8/01 07:17 22752646 View BlackJack 2.00 2.00 0.00 394.00
5/8/01 07:17 22752655 View BlackJack 8.00 0.00 -8.00 386.00
5/8/01 07:17 22752668 View BlackJack 8.00 0.00 -8.00 378.00
5/8/01 07:18 22752681 View BlackJack 18.00 0.00 -18.00 360.00
5/8/01 07:18 22752695 View BlackJack 18.00 36.00 18.00 378.00
5/8/01 07:18... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 28, 2001, 8:46 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Djeff -
Mandy is NOT the right person to send anything to. I guarantee you'll get silence followed by a form letter.
You don't have to trust me either, that's your choice. The offer still stands for you or anyone else who believes they have a legitimate beef.
Wilhelm -
If you know it's rigged, why do you even bother playing? Have you noticed in this and other forums that people have actually won significant amounts playing Blackjack and said they don't have any complaints?
There are two of them in this ery forum. They can speak up if they so choose. And if they don't - well, that's their prerogative.
Nobody, not even Dave R, has shown any even HALFWAY significant data to prove the theory. I have had worse streaks in a land-based casino than online. I have talked about them here and elsewhere.
If I told you the story, you wouldn't believe it either. Trouble is, it was at a REAL casino and not online.
Why don't all of you pool your da... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Djeff at May 28, 2001, 8:20 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet:
If you want, I'll ask for you.
Send details of the problem, the logs you DO have with an indication where the data is missing, and your account number to webmaster@got2bet.com, and I will try and see what happened.
Spearmaster, I have sent this material to Mandy at Microgaming. Although, she said that the missing data would reappear, it never has. Since you would like it I can do the same but feel a little uncomfortable sending a total stranger my account number. Is there not some other way to affect this matter than that?
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| Posted by: Wilhelm at May 28, 2001, 7:51 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Djeff:
Wilhelm,
This is such an incredible story I wish it were on international news. Riverbelle is an unlicensed casino. They will not reveal the name of their owner to me. I think I have found them. I lost several thousand dollars in this casino when the game refused on 35 of 40 hands to let me win. They were always coming up with 21 or BJ when I would get 21. When I complained, they had lost the transactions around the time of their fraud. This is so incredible since the odds of me losing this many times are like 1 in 6 million.
Djeff,
I have seen what you are talking about with MY OWN EYES. And it has been repeated by SO MANY OTHER PLAYERS. Microgaming Blackjack is DEFINITELY rigged.
Got2Bet, Here is another player repeating what me and others have been saying for a long time. When are you going to admit that you are on the wrong side? I have played countless hands of Blackjack at hundreds of physical and online casinos in C... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 28, 2001, 6:56 am | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
If you want, I'll ask for you.
Send details of the problem, the logs you DO have with an indication where the data is missing, and your account number to webmaster@got2bet.com, and I will try and see what happened.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: Djeff at May 27, 2001, 9:00 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet:
Dave, that is totally unfair and you know it. You don't even know the full story and you are blasting away again.
Djeff, you have to look at your log within 7 days - otherwise you will have to ask them for the logs.
Ask them to send you a copy - and if they won't let me know and I will get you a copy.
I did ask for the log and they would not send it. There are several days, way more than 7, the the log does have. Then there are the days after the day in question that show up. I find this just incredible!
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 27, 2001, 8:51 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Dave, that is totally unfair and you know it. You don't even know the full story and you are blasting away again.
Djeff, you have to look at your log within 7 days - otherwise you will have to ask them for the logs.
Ask them to send you a copy - and if they won't let me know and I will get you a copy.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: Djeff at May 27, 2001, 8:19 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Wilhelm:
I have seen some fishy things at all Microgaming Casinos. Would you please explain a little bit more about what happened?
Wilhelm,
This is such an incredible story I wish it were on international news. Riverbelle is an unlicensed casino. They will not reveal the name of their owner to me. I think I have found them. I lost several thousand dollars in this casino when the game refused on 35 of 40 hands to let me win. They were always coming up with 21 or BJ when I would get 21. When I complained, they had lost the transactions around the time of their fraud. This is so incredible since the odds of me losing this many times are like 1 in 6 million.
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| Posted by: Wilhelm at May 27, 2001, 8:13 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Djeff:
My eyes are wide open. Riverbelle Casino has proven to be fraudulent. In the last month a problem came up with the way that a game was being played. I complained and was told it was just bad luck. When I responded that what happened was not a matter of luck I was told to look at the transactions.
I have seen some fishy things at all Microgaming Casinos. Would you please explain a little bit more about what happened?
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| Posted by: prosperity9035 at May 27, 2001, 7:50 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Dave R:
About a year ago I noticed several missing transactions from Playcheck. Playcheck showed the financial results of the transaction, and the ID #, but when I tried to iew the transaction in detail, it gave me some kind of data error message. This happened with numerous transactions.
At that point I immediately contacted Kurt Shrauen at Microgaming. He couldn't come up with an answer. Then Clinton Thompson at Microgaming released an audit trail to me of several months worth of transactions. He included SEPERATE LOGS for blackjack and roulette. I carefully dissected those logs, but these MISSING transactions did not appear. Kurt Shrauen said he would get back to me on this issue, and NEVER DID. So I contacted all of the following "executives":
Lisa W
Dean S
Clinton T
Avron M
Not one of them ever responded to my concerns.
This is just one more reason I ask everyone to BOYCOTT ALL MICROGAMING CASINOS.
<... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dave R at May 27, 2001, 2:00 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
About a year ago I noticed several missing transactions from Playcheck. Playcheck showed the financial results of the transaction, and the ID #, but when I tried to iew the transaction in detail, it gave me some kind of data error message. This happened with numerous transactions.
At that point I immediately contacted Kurt Shrauen at Microgaming. He couldn't come up with an answer. Then Clinton Thompson at Microgaming released an audit trail to me of several months worth of transactions. He included SEPERATE LOGS for blackjack and roulette. I carefully dissected those logs, but these MISSING transactions did not appear. Kurt Shrauen said he would get back to me on this issue, and NEVER DID. So I contacted all of the following "executives":
Lisa W
Dean S
Clinton T
Avron M
Not one of them ever responded to my concerns.
This is just one more reason I ask everyone to BOYCOTT ALL MICROGAMING CASINOS.
Spearmaster - STOP DEFENDING THEM.
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| Posted by: Djeff at May 27, 2001, 1:29 pm | | Topic: Riverbelle is fraudulant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum: Winner Online |
My eyes are wide open. Riverbelle Casino has proven to be fraudulent. In the last month a problem came up with the way that a game was being played. I complained and was told it was just bad luck. When I responded that what happened was not a matter of luck I was told to look at the transactions. GUESS WHAT? The transactions disappeared from PLAYCHECK. For 3 weeks I tried to iew the transactions. Everytime I tried to contanct Riverbelle I got a new person. Each new person was unaware of the messages that had already been sent back and forth and I had to begin a new with each of the 15 Riverbelle folks that contacted me. This story is really big and you will be hearing more about the situation over the next few days.
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