| Posted by: Trader at July 19, 2001, 4:12 pm | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
James, you are correct about the opposing bets. I should have known to include that too.
By the way, Omni Casino actually weights their comp program to give betting on craps twice the alue of a blackjack bet. Their program is unlike any other I have seen. Because you get 50 comp points each day you make even one bet, it can be worth 6.67% ($10 on $150 wagered)if you place only one bet every day for a month. If you do all your betting on one day, you have to wager $21750 on blackjack or $10,875 on craps to get $10 from the program.
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| Posted by: James at July 19, 2001, 3:47 pm | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Trader:
An additional thought: This is why the online casinos do not allow bonus play for craps and baccarat, even though they carry a larger mathematical house advantage than blackjack. It is impossible to screw up betting the passline. The outcome is only based on the probabilities.
No, the reason the casinos disallow these games, as well as roulette, is because they have been burned in the past by scammers who bet both sides (i.e. pass/don't pass, red/black, etc.) for a small guaranteed loss, but giving them a guaranteed profit after generous bonuses.
To my knowledge the only casinos that ban baccarat play are RTG, where it is possible to bet simultaneously on banker and player. This is impossible at Microgaming sites, and I have never seen a MG site ban baccarat from promos.
The funny thing is that the casinos even ban these games from their 0.1% cashback programs, where the 0.1% comes nowhere close to overcoming the house advantage. ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Trader at July 19, 2001, 1:21 pm | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
Can you imagine how those guys would play if you added "free" adult beverages to the equation? Those billion dollar casinos in Las Vegas were not built just for expert play either.
Just remember to bet the max when you are going to win and the minimum when you are going to lose. Will Rogers gave great investment advice 70 years ago: "Buy stocks that go up. If they don't go up, don't buy them." For $19.95 you can get that same advice from a blackjack "expert".
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| Posted by: Dirk_Dangerous at July 19, 2001, 12:29 pm | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
I'm surprised the payback is in the 98% - 99% range at online BJ games. I recently watched a few players playing at a multi-player Boss Media site.
God these players were terrible. I mean just the worst BJ player's I've ever seen. Three of them made multiple BS errors in a ery short period of time: hitting stiffs s. dealer low cards. Not doubling when they should, splitting low cards against dealer high cards. Really it was incredible.
After seeing all this, I was more than ready to run out and buy an online casino. Maybe some online casinos are making money
Dirk
[This message has been edited by Dirk_Dangerous (edited 07-19-2001).]
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| Posted by: Trader at July 19, 2001, 12:19 pm | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
An additional thought: This is why the online casinos do not allow bonus play for craps and baccarat, even though they carry a larger mathematical house advantage than blackjack. It is impossible to screw up betting the passline. The outcome is only based on the probabilities.
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| Posted by: Trader at July 19, 2001, 12:10 pm | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
I am sorry that I already deleted it, but this month's newsletter from Casino-On-Net dealt with this issue and agrees exactly with James. They quoted the mathematical edge of their blackjack game at 0.40% and the actual payout of around 98.5%. Don't hold me to those exact numbers, but I am sure they are close. They explained the difference as player error: "Everyone thinks he is an expert. An expert is a guy who knows 50 ways to make love but can't find a girlfriend."
If you play in the Boss multiplayer games you will see enough bad play to question how the payout is so high. The last time I played at AceKing Club a player joined my table with a $400 bankroll and proceeded to play 3 hands at a time at $50-100 each. He continued to do this even though he lacked the funds to double when appropriate. Naturally he lost it all and then came back with another $400 and repeated the same pattern. I wanted to say something to him about overbetting his bankroll and giving up a key player advant... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at July 19, 2001, 10:15 am | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
I would tend to discount what Prue said. But I also think each game has a separate RNG in any case.
You can perhaps dial in a 95% payback for a slot machine - but for VP and blackjack the RNG is supposedly dealing totally random cards.
No idea if AC is really 87.5% but in Vegas payouts generally range between 92-98.7%.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: Dirk_Dangerous at July 19, 2001, 10:01 am | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
I wouldn't take what Prue says as evidence of non-randomness or not. Like many people involved in the ownership of online casinos, I doubt Prue knows ery much about gambling, random card games etc., etc.,
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| Posted by: croupier at July 19, 2001, 9:57 am | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
James has got it right here. It's a fact that casinos make more money from player errors on BJ & VP than they do on the actual mathematical edge.
Some casinos offer full pay deuces wild which has a payback of 100.76% and even with the pro's fighting over the machines the casino still makes a profit.
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Craig Miller - Casino Help
www.casino-help.com
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| Posted by: spike at July 19, 2001, 9:53 am | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
James, I understand your point and you are right. I think the thing I don't really like is "The random number generated, which is what determines that is, for all intents and purposes, locked in at 95%" He doesn't say slot are locked in a 95%, he says the RNG that determines payouts is basically locked in at 95%, how can a RNG be locked? It is not a RNG then...
[This message has been edited by spike (edited 07-19-2001).]
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| Posted by: James at July 19, 2001, 9:37 am | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
The Wizard's number assumes the player has a clue.
The 1.5% number should be based on the actual players in their casino, including the ones who split 10s, double 12s, stand on 7s, etc.
Not to assert that Microgaming's BJ game is necessarily fair, but the two numbers you quoted are not inconsistent.
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| Posted by: spike at July 19, 2001, 9:06 am | | Topic: Tropika/Microgaming BJ Payouts Forum: Winner Online |
Howdy All,
There has be a lot of talk in the past year or so about wether or not Microgaming BJ is dealt randomly or has a determined payout like a slot machine. Both sides are pretty well entrenched. Just to add a little ammunition to the fire, I read an interview with tropika's VP of Finance David Prue(Not the best source I know) over at Casinomeister. Now the article is a little dated, September 1, 1999, and I'm not sure if tropika was using Microgaming at the time(But I think they were, if they didn't I am worried about nothing and will delete this) but I'll be damned if this doen't sound like BJ payout is determined like a slot machine. I could be wrong but this bothers me... According to The Wizard of Odds Microgaming edge if dealt randomly should be +0.13% but David's numbers don't jibe, he claims +1.5%!!!!!
From http://www.stockhouse.ca/interviews/sep99/090199.asp
StockHouse: What's your average pay out?
David Prue: The random number generated, which is wha... | | Read Entire Entry |
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