| Posted by: HKGambler at October 13, 2001, 11:12 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
As more & more posters revealed their experience being cheated, which VegasUSA2 did not deny, now, can any able man around really do something, other than just cry out loud, to tear it down?
Cannot let VegasUSA2 go like this, we really need some concrete actions, since we had some successes in the past in striking back GSS, clockmedia, etc.
[This message has been edited by HKGambler (edited 10-14-2001).]
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| Posted by: MisterEd at October 13, 2001, 5:46 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Myself and my sister played VegasUSA2. Our combined results were:
Won 96
Lost 265
Push 0
The (lack of) pushes concerned me more then the loss of our $200.
[This message has been edited by MisterEd (edited 10-13-2001).]
[This message has been edited by MisterEd (edited 10-13-2001).]
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| Posted by: rw24 at October 12, 2001, 8:17 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
If you have a 48% chance of winning any particular hand, your chances of losing 38 in a row are 1 in 61,920,000,000. The chances of it randomly happening are almost non existent.
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| Posted by: eelwood at October 12, 2001, 3:58 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
I lost 38 hands in a row at egasusa2 and thought I had just really bad luck. I was playing quite a bit of cash too. After reading these other posts I feel really cheated. I have never ever lost this much at any blackjack game-and i have played at least 100 internet and land based casinos. CHEATERS
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| Posted by: lenka99 at October 10, 2001, 10:23 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Today I have experienced probably my worse run of luck: played BJ at a ery well known online casino and got (in the order of apparition): 15L (in a row), 1W (in a row too lol), 15L, 1W, 1Loss = balance 0. I blame it on my bad luck.
[This message has been edited by lenka99 (edited 10-10-2001).]
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| Posted by: Mrracetrack at October 9, 2001, 2:30 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
You would think that a "rep" from VegasUSA2
might have posted some type of reply to the
negative implications that numerous posters have made here about their black jack game.
Hmmmm.... Food for thought....??
[This message has been edited by Mrracetrack (edited 10-09-2001).]
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| Posted by: JohnMichaelGamez at October 7, 2001, 1:20 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
38Special I thought it meant "Really Outrageous Fat Ladies Making Argentinian Outfits" LOL!
~JM
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| Posted by: jondo at October 6, 2001, 8:11 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Bonus abuse seems to be a term that is antiquated. Once, people could open accounts under many names and "abuse" promotions. These days are gone. I see it now as bonus "use".
I see it as the casinos have created a new game and one that can/could be beat. Myself, I never was one to play the bonus game, but looked for good VP that could be beat. I have had my success too. The beatable games are getting scarce and these joints are wising up. There are too many skilled players/programmers that will kill a good game.
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| Posted by: HKGambler at October 4, 2001, 11:13 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Reading above, no slightest doubt that VegasUSA2 cheats. It cheats- not clandestinely, but audaciously. So what? Who can sink its ship?
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at October 4, 2001, 9:23 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Are these the guys youall are talking about?
Registrant:
Naprinel S.A.
Edif. T. Mercedes, Piso 9
Paseo Colon
San Jose, SJ 0900
CR
Domain Name: VEGASUSA2.COM
Administrative Contact:
Caamano, Marco mcaamano@naprinel.com
Edif. T. Mercedes, Piso 9
Paseo Colon
San Jose, SJ 0900
CR
506-295-6691
Technical Contact:
Caamano, Marco mcaamano@naprinel.com
Edif. T. Mercedes, Piso 9
Paseo Colon
San Jose, SJ 0900
CR
506-295-6691
Billing Contact:
Caamano, Marco mcaamano@naprinel.com
Edif. T. Mercedes, Piso 9
Paseo Colon
San Jose, SJ 0900
CR
506-295-6691
Record last updated on 27-Sep-2001.
Record expires on 29-Dec-2002.
Record Created on 29-Dec-1999.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS2.NAPRINEL.COM 196.40.26.103
WEB1.NAPRINEL.COM 204.50.79.61
SQL1.NAPRINEL.COM 204.50.79.62
NEW! VegasUSALive Customer Support
Recipients of the "Bes... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: scaven at October 4, 2001, 8:21 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
I thnik that there is a glitch in their software, everytime I play there and it starts going on one of those winless streaks (6-7) I just logout and log back in, and everything is fine.
Something has to be done about this software, some guy on the pigpost posted about his losing his first 50 and losing $200 placing $1 bets, w/ BS
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| Posted by: Lelik at October 4, 2001, 7:21 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Hi there!
Some days ago I had also bad experience with VegasUSA2.
I lost 56 hands in a row!
By.
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| Posted by: Mrracetrack at October 3, 2001, 10:56 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Cyclopes,
Re your statement " Bonus Abusing ... personally if some one offered me a good deal, be it on a pizza or on a casino I would take it .. many times over".....
Aren't you worried that you might be "banned" from Papa John's or Domino's if you only order a pizza when you have a coupon??? I'm sure they would only want you as a customer if you paid "full price" most times,and only used your "bonus coupon" after buying "10X" regular price pizza.
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| Posted by: cyclopes at October 3, 2001, 9:53 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Adding my $0.02 in two issues
1. Same question as Woody0... do the Isle of Man/etc really check the software to the code and procedures? and how often do they examine the code (people may/can change the software once they get the license)?
As far as I know, MGM got license from Isle of Man and they say they would get online in another year .. does this mean they got the license without the software being ready?
2. Bonus Abusing ... personally if some one offered me a good deal, be it on a pizza or on a casino I would take it .. many times over.
If a casino is offering a bonus, let them caluculate the risks and be prepared. Its a business decision which includes risks of running into loss.
If the casino is fair, pays quickly and has good customer service, I don't think they would have to give away hefty bonuses to keep its customers (but then again wouldn't we be missing compliments from land based casino's? ;-).
Cheers!
Cyclopes
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| Posted by: scaven at October 3, 2001, 5:12 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
what? you must be joking
My purpose is to make money, not give my money away, besides, Im sure that for every responsible bonus gambler (abuser according to you), there are many more people who dont know what they are doing, and lose alot of money, daily
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| Posted by: Apollo355 at October 3, 2001, 4:29 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
They should play because they are addicted gamblers with a habit, not because there are bonuses tossed out to them to grab and run.
These online casinos are sending our the wrong messages.
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| Posted by: Apollo355 at October 3, 2001, 11:09 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
That's why I think it's a high time gaming sites should stop offering bonus promotions. It causes too much discrepencies between players and casinos and it's hurting the industry as a whole.
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| Posted by: HKGambler at October 2, 2001, 10:59 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
What is bonus abuse? This is a term invented by Golden Palace & the like. Only retarded people(casinos) repeat this term again.
When casinos are giving out bonuses, they are by nature asking for players taking advantage. Only fools gamble without bonus and they know that. Therefore, the reason why casinos keep throwing out generous attractions is obvious: once money deposited, it is theirs. They can either cheat on the software, you lose. Or if you win, you'll never get paid. Casinos are not dumbazz that they have multi-hand preparation to do that at any time & survive.
Wake up players! The days will be near when many "reliable" casinos all of a sudden grab & run.
The only way this industry end up.
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| Posted by: Mrracetrack at October 2, 2001, 8:30 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Apollo355:
Pardon me for going off track but mecsrc, you're the reason online gaming sites should stop utilizing bonuses as a marketing tool.
The last thing this industry needs are bonus abusers.
P.S. Nothing against you.. just throwing my 2cs.
Apollo,
Why would you consider what mecsrc posted as "bonus abuse"? His statement was "I am one of these people who take advantage of bonuses and am ery careful not to risk my own money ery much".
I would think that quite a few people do exactly that at numerous on line casino's.
From what he posted, I don't read anything that would indicate this to be bonus abuse.
Then again, I guess I don't know what your definition of bonus abuse is.
If you believe that "The last thing this industry needs are bonus abusers", maybe the casino's should "rethink" how they offer the bonuses, and that way they can avoid the players that they deem "... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Apollo355 at October 2, 2001, 7:44 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Pardon me for going off track but mecsrc, you're the reason online gaming sites should stop utilizing bonuses as a marketing tool.
The last thing this industry needs are bonus abusers.
P.S. Nothing against you.. just throwing my 2cs.
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| Posted by: Woody0 at October 1, 2001, 5:39 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Saying that RTG, Microgaming and Cryptologic deal non-random games of blackjack is an unfortunate choice of terms. I think that what you really mean is that the software does not simulate randomly shuffled decks of cards. I presume you think that it then sets up some random output and might even predetermine the dealer hand, irrespective of what the players draw. In fact the return against expert play can be set by preselecting the frequency of dealer hands. The only credible, if true, evidence I've seen was on a board by a player who's wagered over $600,000 with about a 97% return. I guess both Dirk and Dave are anecdotally supporting this idea.
The problem with looking at reported % returns for blackjack is that it includes players who play less than optimally.
Of course one problem is our minds are so pattern conscious that we automatically search and find patterns where none exist. The only reliable test would be to run a computer for millions of hands. Those of you who have Wong's... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: zrapture at October 1, 2001, 12:28 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
"I agree that it is much like a slot machine in that, if you play perfect basic strategy, you can only win a set number of hands, usually around 45%"
With a random game, playing optimal stategy at BJ you should win less then 45% of the time. If your winning 45% of your hands then your doing pretty damn good and the games are probably fair.
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| Posted by: scaven at October 1, 2001, 11:21 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
this is my theory on online software (Being that I record every single hand that I play, and Ive played at at least ten diff. software prov.)
I agree that it is much like a slot machine in that, if you play perfect basic strategy, you can only win a set number of hands, usually around 45%
other hands are not able to be won, some are easy to win, while others depend on how you play (which is where BS comes in)
How the software can defeat you is simply by giving you alot of hands that you should deviate from basic strategy on, and who says the casino has to use software that supports basic strategy play????
for example. I have seen a streak of losses of at least 7 where 5 hands could have been won if BS had not been used. (E.G. dealer 14 (7,7) s. you 16 (7,9). BS says hit, but if you hit a 10, you lose, but could have won had you not followed B.S.)
So I guess the final question is, what is the definition of randomness in dealing cards. By the standard definiti... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: scaven at October 1, 2001, 11:13 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
you guys seem to know about a lot more casino newsgroup and bonus sites than I do. I only know of 4 main ones.
winneronline.com
vegaslobby.com
casinomeister
fatbonus.com
any help as to where I might be able to find more sites?
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| Posted by: Dave R at October 1, 2001, 10:36 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Dirk, I agree with most of what you say.
My experiences are ery similar to yours.
I also believe that WorldGaming (Starnet) and Bossmedia offer random and fair card games.
I believe that GSS is crooked.
As far as RTG goes, the jury is out. But be assured of one thing: Safebet is STILL owned by RTG despite what anyone says.
The jury is also out for Cryptologic. I once performed a test without gambling. Myself and others watched the multiplayer bj for several hours at a time EVERY day, and recorded the results. Most players lost.
However, the sample size of this test was not large enough to make accusations of a rigged game. Also, my personal experiences were well within the norm. (The empirical SD with > 1 SD away from the theoretical SD)
One thing that bothers me is thier recent press release which stated that someone (probably an ex-employee) broke into thier server, and caused the craps game to roll only doubles. Very ery strange, but still not e... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dirk_Dangerous at October 1, 2001, 8:26 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
I've seen enough ancedotal evidence to convince me that this casinos' BJ game is rigged. Email them and complain.
And yes, I do think that a number of places now have non-random BJ games. Software I suspect of being non-random:
RTG
Microgaming
Cryptologic
Gamblingsoftware.com
With RTG, Micro and Crypto you can win, but I think the game is like a slot machine as opposed to a randomally dealt card game you would find in an actual casino.
Evidence seems to indicate that Gamblingsoftware.com just plain cheats. I avoid that software like the plague.
I do believe that World Gaming (Starnet) and Boss Media both deal random and fair card games.
Dirk
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| Posted by: Dave R at October 1, 2001, 5:42 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Mecsrc,
Please email VegasUSA2 for a full audit trail of all gaming transactions on your account. If you really lost 64 consecutive hands, playing basic strategy, then this casino is rigged, and needs to be avoided.
If I were you, I'd file an immediate complaint with the OPA or Gambling Grumbles and accuse them of running a rigged game.
They will then have to reseach this, and will have to release the gaming logs.
If you really did lose 64 in a row, then this casino needs to be put on every blacklist everywhere.
I have dealt with Naprinel Inc, for the regular Vegas USA which uses Grand Virtual software. I play a lot of the zero house edge dice game which was recommended by the Gamemaster at Gamemasteronline.com. I found this game to be fair.
But VegasUSA2 uses proprietary software.
I only played there once, and played baccarat. My luck wasn't good, and I ended up losing the majority of hands, but my sample size was tiny.
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| Posted by: sergio99 at October 1, 2001, 12:28 am | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
I have also stopped betting at Vegas USA2. I'd rather fo spend my money at a Microgaming Casino.
------------------
sergio@expertarena.net
Gamblers Quarters - Online Gaming Information
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| Posted by: Factor X at September 30, 2001, 9:57 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
I have played blackjack for 25 years.
The most number of hands I have ever lost
in a row is 20. That was at a land-based
casino. I lost 10 consecutive hands playing
2 hands at a time.
In other words, I lost both hands 10 times
in a row. The "covariance" between 2 hands
is , I believe , 75 per cent.
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| Posted by: Sirius at September 30, 2001, 7:59 pm | | Topic: random software Forum: Winner Online |
Yeah, over at another message board people had similar results at Vegas Usa 2. I've not played but I wasn't really sure until now if the reports of cheating were true. A lot of the time there I can't figure out if people are telling the truth. Losing 64 in a row is totally impossible though.
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