| Posted by: Jetset at October 29, 2001, 10:29 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Well stated, Casino Operator although one has to observe that the large number of sub-standard and bad-practice sites around would suggest that better probity checks on sub-licencees are indicated!
These so called "licencing jurisdictions" more often than not misrepresent their commitment to ensuring safe gambling at sites they licence, too. Let's face it, many casinos display licencing information as a player reassurance tactic more than anything else and the licencing authority is quite happy to go along with that and avoid taking action on complaints.
This crazy bonus situation is at least in part to blame for the flighty nature of player loyalty imo, and it is a pity that the industry has reached this pass due to its highly competitive nature.
I still believe there is a place for well-run, reputable casinos which offer sound loyalty programs. That applies even more these days with players who have been repeatedly ripped off for alleged "bonus abuse" lo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at October 29, 2001, 8:52 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Very nice piece, Casino Operator. I don't think that a lot of people have any idea what it costs to run a casino business - and unfortunately, I don't think many people actually care as long as they get their winnings.
As long as the industry continues to play cutthroat, though, with all sorts of zany bonuses, I don't think the situation will change any time soon.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: The_CPA at October 29, 2001, 7:34 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
AMEN to that casinooperator! Read the thread Mary just started. I soooo agree it isn't funny. A few solid casinos would be far better than a bunch short lived weak ones. they make great money and can relieve us of the worries and do promos that are REAL!
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http://www.CasinoPlayersAdvocate.com
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| Posted by: casinooperator at October 29, 2001, 10:26 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Let me make things crystal clear here.
I work for a company that currently operates online casinos, 4 of them.
We recently talked with all the major software providers, Cryptologic, MicroGaming and Boss Media.
ALL of these casino software developers provide their licensees with "sub-licenses" to operate online casinos. This is a license to operate an online casino. There are arious jurisdictions that you have to choose from.
This is nothing different than what what has been done by every online casinos since this industry began. There are a ery few that are officially licensed by a true government regulatory organization. An example would be the Australian licensed casinos.
What most people need to understand is that the safety and security of your money is mostly in your hands. These major software providers put their potential licensees through rigorous background checks. They make sure that you are currently financially strong enough to own, oper... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Burnt Toast at October 21, 2001, 5:10 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
A few things to point out here...
1. Just because MGS have a master license and offer sublicenses to their clients does not mean that they are a regulator - yes, in some way I would imagine they would be responsible for those companies they offer a sublicense to, but ultimately they still need to answer to the body that gave them the master license in the first place.
2. MGS have always touted self-regulation. By this I mean that it is in their best interest to keep their name clean and provide the best possible service to their clients - whether this actually means anything or not to players isn't really relevant.
3. Currently no MGS casinos operate in any regulated jursidictions - sure, they have licenses in places like Dominica etc., but other than probity checks (at most), they don't really need to comply with much.
4. If they can obtain a master license in a regulated jurisdiction, it doesn't decrease the checks in place in that region. First of all the basic MGS... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at October 21, 2001, 2:34 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY!!
Microgaming is looking for maximum pay on their investment of time and technology. Therefore, those who are unwilling to pay the increase in licensing fees, are weeded out. There are still plenty of MG casinos around. But MG is taking a larger share of their own market.
Notice how many MG casinos have re-issued their software lately. And it costs a bundle you know.
Also notice how many MG casinos are now coming back with the "no deposit" promotions. They disappeared for a while. Although now they have more restrictions, and tighter controls to prevent "abusers" from taking advantage.
I hardly think MG is suffering from losing EH, SD, CG, Geisha and KS. In fact, these five will discover a significan decrease in their overall market share after the change. They will find that it is not their names alone that will bring customers like before. MG is the #1 software on the market, and I don't see anyone out there right now... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at October 19, 2001, 12:07 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Good discussion.
The fact of the matter (as others have pointed out here) is that almost every so-called government licencing authority is a mere flag of convenience which is only interested in the licencing dollars it can accrue - not the safety of the player or in mediating his or her complaints against a casino it licences.
That may be changing with recent developments shaping up in Nevada or more immediately on the Isle of Man to mention two, and that in turn may exert pressure on the rest of these diddly squat licencing jurisdictions which do nothing for the player.
I've lost track of the number of complaints which I have helped submit or which I have heard about, where the "regulating" authority does not even bother to give you the courtesy of an acknowledgement.
Almost all of them are a joke, which makes the IGC requirement that their members have to be "licenced" equally silly and largely ineffectual. Like Mary, over the several years I ha... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at October 13, 2001, 12:00 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Research tip:
For the publically traded companies, such as Starnet (World PLC), Cryptologic, Chartwell, DotCom etc. you can get a lot of information by going to:
www.streetdice.com
which has handy lists of all the ticker symbols for all the gaming companies. Click on the ticker symbol, and it will take you to the Yahoo financial summary and chart for that company; from there, you can look up SEC filings that have financials, annual reports, etc. Gambling licensing structure and approvals should be disclosed in annual reports.
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| Posted by: 38Special at October 13, 2001, 11:01 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
I'm gonna go out on a limb here are stick to my original thought. gibby, Cryptologic IS the Ecash provider, but they also are the software developer/licensor. I still think Wagerlogic is a company owned store. Below you will see Cryptologic is somehow involved within the domain Wagerlogic.
Conversely, you won't see that on William Hill. That means to me that Sands, Intercasino, Regal,49er and Omni too I think are all company owned stores. Personally, I don't see it as any big deal either way. I think there would be some player advantages to a company store. No middle man, better incentives, more stability, faster,uniform payouts, more money for development, decreases the need to cheat, etc., etc. I would tend to agree on the point that if I were a licensee, I would be less inclined to buy from a licensor that had a bunch of Company stores, although there could be some advantages there too. In most situations two mouths have to be fed. Yes two mouths still would need to be fed, but they wouldn't need... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: antoine at October 13, 2001, 6:55 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Hi,
I agree with you on many points. Regardless you cant dismiss the OPA due to them disclosing some of their arbitrations to the public. As long as specific names aren't released - due to privacy issues - there is nothing wrong with this practice.
How else would people become aware that this organization even exists? It's like claiming a charity should keep all of thier policies private. If they did how could i trust them, yet less donate? Even worse, how would i hear about them in the first place?
As long as the claims are alid and can be erified i dont see a problem. I do realize what you're saying about the land based disputes... but the industry is so astly different, i strongly feel that you cant compare them. The only thing they have in common is that they share the same games.
Antoine, http://www.casinoranking.com
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| Posted by: gibby404 at October 13, 2001, 5:50 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
I think everyone is getting confused between software licenses and casino licenses to operate in a jurisdiction.
I am also going to lok at http://www.gamblinglicenses.com
I have know idea where gamingclub came into this conversation. What we are looking for is eveidence that a software provider has circumvented the arms-length casino licensing process by letting their software licensee operate under a license that the software provider or its nominee has gotten. This is what is rumoured to be the soon to be seen case of MicroG. I have no idea where. But if this is true we shall see if anyone else sees the obvious conflict of interest here.
I would love to see any "regulator" join this thread. Someone made a comment about only the OPA has helped players. Where I come from if a customer has a complaint about a casino operator they go to the regulator who does not necessarily make public what if anything they do. SO who knows??? I think the same is true in the USA in stock trading wh... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: missvegas at October 13, 2001, 5:16 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Hi
I'm trying to use common sense. All casinos referback program advertises seems to be administrated by the same group(gaming club, riverbelle, luccky nugget, orbital and 2 other new ones) I've noticed that none of these casinos have information on what company is behind on their websites or Domain Name Info at Network solutions.
Just comparing with King Solomons or other ones. Proc-Cyber (their e-cash services) is the only reference about them.
Forward Slash doesn't say too much as who is the company behind.
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at October 12, 2001, 9:10 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
I'm confused, too.
And there are some jurisdictions that license a casino software manufacturer with a "master license" that the manufacturer then confers upon sublicensees, I think Starnet and Starnet repackagers used to do that; not sure about World Gaming Plc (Starnet's cleaned up reincarnation)
Yes, it is sloppy and ridden with conflict of interest issues. That's not unusual for any situation in which a government entity starts relying on the revenue from a "sin tax"--state lotteries are the prime example.
An excellent site for licensing information is http://www.gamblinglicenses.com/ and I think I will peruse it for a bit before returning to this thread. Good discussion, gibby
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| Posted by: 38Special at October 12, 2001, 8:18 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Help me out here, What am I missing? Where did forward slash come in? Referback owns gaming club? Could you clarify the who is search and what lead you there? Sorry, I'm lost? Not Unusual!! Lmao!
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| Posted by: missvegas at October 12, 2001, 7:22 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
gibby,
I've checked the WHO IS at networksolutions and this is what I found.
Registrant:
Forward Slash
P O Box 51288
Waterfront, 8002
ZA
Domain Name: REFERBACK.COM
Administrative Contact:
Esterhuizen, Arno arno@forwardslash.com
P O Box 51288
Waterfront, 8002
ZA
+27 21 430 9375
Technical Contact:
UUNET SA, DNS Administration dns-admin@uunet.co.za
1st Floor, Great Westerford, Main Road, Newlands
Cape Town, Western Cape 7700
ZA
+27-21-658-8585
Billing Contact:
Esterhuizen, Arno arno@forwardslash.com
P O Box 51288
Waterfront, 8002
ZA
+27 21 430 9375
Record last updated on 09-Oct-2001.
Record expires on 21-Jul-2003.
Record Created on 21-Jul-2000.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.IAFRICA.COM 196.7.0.139
NS2.IAFRICA.COM 196.7.142.133
Registrant:
Forward Slash
P O Box 51288
Waterfront, 8002
ZA
Domain Name: GAMING... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at October 12, 2001, 2:35 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Trader, I agree with you. In all the time I have been monitoring this industry, I have never read or heard of a government regulatory agency that licenses online gambling to ever have ruled in a player's favor.
gibby404, I have to wonder how long you've been gambling to be singling out Microgaming for criticism--very nearly all the casino software providers that are currently operating casinos that take wagers from North America are operating without licenses or with meaningless licenses. The only exception I can think of might be Lasseter's.
Access is a software provider that does not sell to sites that take wagers from North America. They have my respect for that.
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| Posted by: Trader at October 12, 2001, 2:06 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
I am sure we would all feel better if we knew there was some legal authority willing and able to enforce regulations against dishonest casinos.
Does anyone out there know of even one case where ANY regulator has successfully taken action against ANY online casino who abused players and got agrieved players paid?
The only cases I know were either settled oluntarily by the casino with the help of portal sites(or OPA) or by intervention of the software provider.
Surely, the Mohawks are less than a perfect solution. They apparently are just the low bidders for a meaningless piece of paper they call a license. Has any other juristiction proven itself more effective?
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| Posted by: gibby404 at October 12, 2001, 12:54 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Thank you Antoine:
I think there needs to be further discussions on this entire subject of Licensing (not software!!!) What you say about the Canadian Mohawks (I can never spell the name of the tribe without having to look it up!) is disturbing indeed. I have noticed a great number of MicroG casinos all Licensed on the "Reservation". It is indeed shameless on Micro's part that they participate in this. Let's take it a step further. I heard from a potential Licensee that the (MicroG) received a License in a reputable jurisdiction. Now they will contaminate that jurisdiction as they apparently don't understand the need to keep their private interests divided by a Chinese Wall from protecting the Public. Operators who submit themselves to proper licensing, should be fearful of associating themselves with such a ill-fated and self-serving plan. I would hope that players only play at a casino that is licensed by a government or licensing authority that has a track record. It is no different tha... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: antoine at October 12, 2001, 6:31 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
I should make myself clearer - when i said software license - I meant a license to operate a casino, as one does not need a license to operate casino software. I apologize concerning this, after re-reading my message i caught the error in my way.
Even if anyone can acquire a license, acquiring one of quality is significantly more difficult. There are only a few UK and australian casinos that have bothered (with US casinos beggining to look into entering the market)
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| Posted by: antoine at October 12, 2001, 6:21 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
What i'm saying is that yes it's simple to get a software license. Anyone can do it, i have talked to microgaming in the past. For 20k a month you can get a license from an offshore island, or for 8 k, the kahnawakee reserve in quebec (and you know as well as i do, that the reserve does nothing when it comes to issuing the license, they are simply using this as another way of laundering tax-free money)
But the point is, while some software providers do require you to get your own license most dont. If you pay your 100k and make the mistake of signing up with Gambling Software you have the privilige of using thier license.
Simple as that, anyone can get a license, those who choose not to do so, dont see the point, since it's cheaper to run a casino from Costa Rica as long as you follow local laws.
I realize that i may be somewhat confused concerning the point you are making, I apologize.
Sincerely,
Antoine, http://www.casinoranking.com
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| Posted by: gibby404 at October 12, 2001, 5:53 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Alas, what is there about this topic that is unclear? Not talking about "software License". Talking about a License to Operate a Casino issued by a Government. You are dead wrong that "anyone can get a license in Antigua & Barbuda". Any "legitimate casino operating license" issued requires "probity". It requires "impartial and unaffiliated supervision". You show me a case where a software provider (Boss, Crypto, etc.) holds a Casino License and the "sublicenses" its own software licensee Operators under their own "casino license".
It is like the Motor ehicles Department issuing a Supra-License to the Parent...who is now allowed to issued a Drivers License to his kids...instead of the Department of Motor Vehicles....it's totally absurd. AND THAT IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO CONVEY HERE. GET IT!!!!
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| Posted by: antoine at October 12, 2001, 5:14 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Boss media owns Gold Casino and Gambling Software operates Roman Palace Casino (a hint is that you should stay away from the second)
A software company operating thier own casino is not that 'special'
Do take into consideration that even if they were issuing the license to the casino they own - what of it? Anyone can purchase a software license from Barbuda & Antigua for 100k. A software license does not indicate that the casino is fair.
You should be the judge at what casino is playing fair.
I mentionned Gambling Software above... they are licensed, and what does that prove?
Antoine, http://www.casinoranking.com
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| Posted by: gibby404 at October 12, 2001, 3:24 am | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
No No! Wagerlogic licenses the software, Cryptologic is the Ecash provider. Neither of these activities has anything to do with regulating licensing! Let's bring the point home. It was the concensus of all of the arious "Codes" that a proper software provider would NOT sell (license) their software unless the Operator had demonstrated they went through Licensing and Probity in a jurisdiction. Well as I see it now, MGS has taken away the arms-length process and contaminated it totally. They can say that Price Waterhouse is doing the probity but they have a conflict also as they are auditing the casinos. So I still believe that if this is all true, and I am not saying it is, as I don't know, then Microgaming should go into the HALL OF SHAME. Imagine a bunch of South Africans who now are Indians too with tribal lands from their ancestors(!!!).
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| Posted by: 38Special at October 11, 2001, 8:47 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have always been under the impression that Wagerlogic is owned by Crytologic. They make no secret of it, in fact it's well publisized. I completely agree that on one hand it gives the appearance of a conflict, on the other hand, it could create a more stable operation by eliminating the underfunded casino owners. In some strange way with a streamlined income source, it might reduce the allegations of screwin around with the card games. In other words, if they are/were playin with the software to insure the operator and MG themselves made their money, this would allow for the possibilty to take out or minimize the operator cut and might allow them to provide US with a fairer game. Maybe they could change the programming for the wierd BJ while they're at it! It would probably solve the slow payout complaints. Besides, don't they own some of em out there already? Mary, why am I thinking they were involved in Captain Cooks? Maybe not. lmao
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at October 11, 2001, 7:41 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
"Imagine Microgaming owning their own Indian reservation and protecting the public from their own casino operators whose profits they share???"
Actually, this is similar to what I suspect that the Golden Palace Group did. I think they have a lot of influence in Kahnawake, being a major employer and I suspect some greasing of palms. Some political elements in the Kahanawake Nation have demonstrated deal making prowess in shall we say less than legal industries, such as arson and smuggling.
As for casino software providers also operating their own casinos sites, that has been going on for quite some time and is almost standard. For one thing, they need a working site to demonstrate the success of their product.
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| Posted by: gibby404 at October 11, 2001, 7:18 pm | | Topic: Microgaming is it TRUE??? Forum: Winner Online |
Is this true???I don't believe it…but this is what I was told…It looks like Microgaming has crossed the line of conflicts of interest. I have heard that MGS has gotten their own casino license in a jurisdiction and now plans to "license and supervise" their own licensees. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why a bunch of their casinos have defected? How can a software company that takes a big piece of the action from their operators also form a company and regulate their own casinos. They can't and they shouldn't! If this is true then SHAME ON MICROGAMING SYSTEMS . It is only through consumer protection by independent licensing authorities can the online casino business remain clean and the public protected. What could have motivated this absurd decision. They can call it what they will but they now have created the ultimate conflict of interest. Imagine Microgaming owning their own Indian reservation and protecting the public from their own casino operators whose profits they share??? Microga... | | Read Entire Entry |
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