| Posted by: two_card at February 11, 2002, 4:36 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
The biggest reason I do not play the large wagering requirements - most casinos do not automatically keep track of wagering. VPC casinos, for example, have an account screen that displays the totals - bonus remaining and amount you can withdraw.
I only play one Crypto casino because I never know how much I need to wager, just how much I can withdraw - the wagering requirements become ery complicated if you lose all the money before completing them.
Having to keep track of the number of hands I play does not add to the enjoyment.l
[This message has been edited by two_card (edited 02-11-2002).]
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| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at February 11, 2002, 4:32 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
I didn't say "soon" to follow, I said to "follow!"
Casino Manager www.drho888.com www.drholite.com www.drho.com
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at February 10, 2002, 8:10 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Exactly again, though I thought I'd better expound on the concept of localization (which I have to present in Miami in March).
Now you guys have it from them directly - support in Mandarin and Cantonese, with call centers soon to follow.
Globalization - local currencies is a nice touch - but the issue of checks has nothing to do with the fact that they are US$ denominated - it has more to do with the fact that the bank is not a local bank. The CC issue is ery true, however.
Now if we can only convince you to look at a combo CPA/affiliate deal!
------------------
Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at February 10, 2002, 12:42 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
1. What you're really talking about is localization. If you're going to market to Asians, you've got to have Chinese software and a Chinese website, and Chinese support, period. You can't have one or even two of the three and expect to be perceived as a truly focused, professional operator.
On the www.drholite.com software, as I've said before in other threads, we offer both Cantonese and Mandarin ersions of the software as well as the translated web sites. In terms of customer support, we offer Chinese email support, but we don't have the traffic right now to warrant setting up a call center to handle Chinese telephone support (these call centers are more expensive than words can explain to set up and operate, and the olume of calls -- notwithstanding what you read on these message boards -- is not as high as you'd think). As soon as www.drho888.com is stabilized from a technical point of iew, we'll localize the sites and Flash software the same way, and the same people will be providing Chine... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at February 10, 2002, 6:17 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Ouch!
I'm only just getting back into exercise, spending time at the driving range and going out for a few rounds of golf (one 12 hours from now).
Hit 360 balls today - was more tired than I expected, and I have all sorts of things like tendinitis and arthritis and bone chips from my days as an athlete, but the competitive spirit still shines. Tomorrow's goal: 3 pars, 1 birdie, total around 108 strokes. I'll report on the results if I make it back alive LOL.
I hope you feel better soon!
------------------
Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: FairBet at February 10, 2002, 6:06 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Got2Bet wrote:
"Ideally, some combination of CPA and affiliate deal is probably best - say a casino pay a fixed fee up front, with future earnings as a percentage after subtracting the amount paid for the acquisition..."
I think this is a good idea for a few reasons. One is, portal owners lose a lot of money "discovering" which aff programs work, and which ones seem to be "out of line."
...think about it, just 120 accounts per year (10 per month at the low CPA of $100) is $12,000 a year. That would pay my hosting costs, and it seems a shame to just "give it away" in the pursuit of new programs.
A fixed monthly "placement fee" backed by an aff percentage (whichever is greater) would be ideal.
Looking over this topic, I wonder if it would not be better in the "webmasters" area!
Ok, this is off topic but important none the less.
Last night, in my pursuit of "staying healthy" I straine... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at February 10, 2002, 4:49 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
LMAO.
Actually, in my opinion, any casino willing to try new things would be a ery big PLUS in my book. Not that I would necessarily subject them to trying out my (or anyone else's) ideas - instead, I would probably hold them up as an example of trying to give more back to the customer.
As for affiliate programs, it's all fine and dandy to have them - in fact, I have some ery good ones which produce well for me - but my aspirations dictate that I take on staff, open offices and things like that - and I cannot jeopardize the stability of that type of an operation by being primarily dependent on affiliate income.
That said, I think this is generally a more suitable model, where casinos and portals share their wins. CPM and CPC, while potentially good for portals, are often losers for the casinos - but sometimes they don't want to share their profits and are willing to put money up front, which suits me fine.
CPA is a double-edged sword as well. If paid in arrears, porta... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FairBet at February 10, 2002, 1:04 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Got2Bet wrote:
"I would be interested in knowing where you ran the test. "
...Right now I do not feel comfortable bringing them into this discussion by naming names. Trying the promo was something that was done as a "personal request" on my behalf, and I'm not sure it would be right for me to get too far into details. Just implying they are open to every "crazy idea" that somebody like us has, could cause them grief (in the form of "Why don't you try this?")
Got2Bet wrote:
"Of course, I'm trying to dump all the affiliate stuff as it is difficult to budget for a business based on such high income fluctuation."
And interestingly enough, (save 1 casino) we do ONLY affiliate based stuff. Apparently, we are one of the few sites out there that prefers AFF deals. ???
We do still have the ability to gauge whether something is "fishy" or not based on what we normally expect to see.
For instance, if w... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at February 10, 2002, 12:27 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Joe -
Quote:
In other words, I will take 15% of 10K net per month, over 25% of 1K net any day.
Absolutely, positively, any day of the week.
The problem lies in what DHCM mentioned - explaining that to the webmasters. This is because, when signing up for an affiliate program, they have no basis on which to calculate the potential casino drop. So 50% of revenues will always look better than 20% of revenues.
There will always be a few of us who can see the difference, and will work hard enough to make sure that it pays - but the key word is "few".
For example, CON offer me a high CPA, but I don't run them because I am competing against thousands of other advertisements, and I don't have the level of traffic to make that kind of an uphill battle profitable.
Yet there are casinos out there who have offered me 10% - and I don't take them on because they do not do enough work to get their name known.
It's ery difficult to find the... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: HKGambler at February 9, 2002, 11:35 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Spear, I am responding to your longest post you have written on this board, ie the one at 4:23 a.m. LOL
You mentioned, "So no matter what Dr. Ho's group does, they will always have business. Bad software, few bonuses - none of this matters. Only good support, a trustworthy name and incentives designed for existing players mean anything to them."
I have to a little disagree that "bad software & few bonuses don't matter". In fact, bad software is always annoying, only when you are playing smooth that you feel pleasant in the first place no matter win or lose afterwards. And bonuses, too few is always unwelcome because there are lots of competitions out there offering fair-enough bonuses. Unlike franchised casinos in Macau, where they don't need to compete with others in bonuses to snatch customers.
Talking of good support, ery true. One point I have always pointed out is that whenever casino groups wishing to penetrate into a specific cultural market, th... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at February 9, 2002, 11:17 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
This is totally counterintuitive, but many webmasters have an astounding knack of being shortsighted when it comes to commissions and payout structures.
One of the things we learned when we tried to set up the www.drholite.com affiliate program is that offering a 20% commission almost always looks worse to a webmaster than a 40% commission, even if the 40% commission is from a disreputable or boring, non-differentiated casino.
To put this in perspective, the current average banner clickthrough rate is less than 1%. In Asia, where the Dr. Ho name is as well known as Trump is in North America, we get 5%-15% clickthrough rates. You'd think that a webmaster would rather get the lower commission but on a higher response rate, but for some reason, this is incredibly difficult to explain and sell.
Casino Manager
www.drho888.com www.drholite.com www.drho.com
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at February 9, 2002, 11:17 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
I think there could be some good synergy between the two concepts--kind of like owning your own casino to play at. You design the decor, and you get a house percentage back. "Your Private Casino"
Players will have invested both design time and have money coming back. Heck, the design libraries could be themed or branded--soap opera stars, kitty cats, Brittney Spears (for fans), Budweiser, etc. There could be design contests or players could trade designs.
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| Posted by: FairBet at February 9, 2002, 11:05 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Hi Spear,
Going back to an earlier thread, I mentioned that the concept had been tested and did increase conversions considerably. (The operator who I spoke to rated it a 3.5 on a scale of 5 as far as being effective.)
Whether or not the player alues would double would only be known if it was more than just a "1 off" promotion. I think (since some sites already have much higher alues than others) it is possible. Especially if all other player concerns were met. The “MoneyBack” would just be an added bonus.
As far as the percentage paid to webmasters I, again, think it boils down to what the casino can generate for the webmaster on the traffic the webmaster sends. One casino might offer a bigger percentage, but if they don't convert or keep players, it has little alue.
In other words, I will take 15% of 10K net per month, over 25% of 1K net any day.
Larger percentages are only relevant when all things are equal. Our experience has shown that there ar... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at February 9, 2002, 9:58 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
AS -
You bet. The Sahara has been a big beneficiary of this. But no more - last trip I used up my comps and didn't play a second in there - I finally have nothing to go back for.
NYNY owes me a bit but I probably will never stay there again either. Treasure Island has been reasonably good to me. But hopefully in June I will have the funds to step up to the Bellagio for a change and see what that's like!
Joe -
I understand your formula - but I don't think the webmasters will accept a lower percentage - a number of casinos have tried 10-15% revenue sharing and found no one will take them up on it. On top of returning 25% losses, that means the casino is giving away 40% profits before royalties, outsourced support, and other costs.
That, in my opinion, is too weak a financial model for a casino operator. UNLESS -
1. You have ery deep pockets.
2. You are committed to a ery long term run.
3. You set a qualification level for achieving this return ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at February 9, 2002, 9:54 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Saw a banner for Crazy Vegas--15% bonus on every deposit up to $1500 a month. Hmm...20X playthrough you say? Ok...that's a bonus of 0.75% (Garyz, you do this enough, you can do it in your head. Think a 10X playthough would be 1.5% and a 20X playthrough is half that.)
So it's like a slot club that gives cashback to the players who meet certain wagering threshholds. That's fine. That is, I think, the cashback one gets on slots these days at the Venetian.
The nightmare is in how they handle it--do they give the bonus up front and then take it away if the play isn't enough (bad) or does it appear in your account when you've played enough (good)?
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at February 9, 2002, 9:31 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
If you combined the "Moneyback" idea with (I think it was Jerry Garner's idea) of the *player* customizable casino interface, you'd have an exceptionally strong package with a lot of player pull. Players could change their casino when they got tired of the skin; the casino operator could make available libraries of motifs; much as Windows is cusotmizable now.
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| Posted by: babe at February 9, 2002, 7:53 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Sure the ease of going from one casino to another with a better bonus contributes to bad player retention, but what also must to be considered as a large if not larger contributer is bad customer service and slow payouts. How many first time players come online to never play again because it took so long to get paid. I know of several who said 'forget it' after their first or second play. The only players left are the bonus hunters.
To DrHoCasinoManager: Hope to see more of your posts.
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| Posted by: FairBet at February 9, 2002, 7:20 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Hi Jetset,
Yes there was (gambling insurance.) I got into the same "discussion" with him. I don't think he liked my idea at all!
I believe the last point he made was that it would get boring playing at just "one" casino, and that is when I answered "That is what "MoneyBackCasinoS.com" is for! (In theory, you could do one for each major provider...at the ery least, you could do different themes.)
------------------
Joe Plummer
www.fairbet.org
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| Posted by: FairBet at February 9, 2002, 7:12 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Hi Spear,
Something that seems to be overlooked (whenever I bring this idea up) is that the webmasters are not being left out of the equation. As stated earlier in the thread, they can make as much or more (even on a lesser percentage) provided conversion rates are higher and player retention / alue is enhanced.
Example:
Current "average" player conversion rate for casinos: 1%
Current "average" player alue is $400 - $700
So given the above, every 100 isitors will generate approximately $400 - $700 on which the webmaster can be paid.
Increase the average conversion rate to 2% and MORE IMPORTANTLY the average player alue to $1,200 + (already the case with some casinos with better player retention...i.e. Casino on Net) and a webmaster can make more at a lesser percentage.
For instance, 100 isitors that ends up converting 2 players with a lifetime alue of $2,400 total is worth more to the webmaster (even at 10%) than 100 isitors t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at February 9, 2002, 4:53 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Spear,
You're right on the money about "bonusing" return players.
In land casinos, I always receive cash comps, and even if its only $5, I still go through the casino. Almost always drop more than the comp money. And then, the land casinos comp rooms and food as well. They also advertise extensively. They must keep a certain amount of cash on hand as well.
They advertise to all of the same people too!!
So, I don't want to hear any "sob stories" from online casinos. You just don't know how to handly what you get, and are "ass backwards" about how to get more.
The two "Casino Groups" I think that have the hightest player retention rates, follow the methods Spear mentioned above.
Sunny Group rarely offers bonuses, except small New Player bonuses. They market their promotions, reward players who come back through random deposits, etc., and they have excellent customer service They don't have the latest MG software ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at February 9, 2002, 12:56 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Excellent thread. I don't want to go O/T but wasn't there an outfit last year offering to pay back a percentage of player's losses at specified casinos?
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at February 9, 2002, 4:23 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
What DRCM is espousing is what other casino managers have been ignoring for a few years now - and he is right on the money.
In the couple of years since I have been in the industry, I have had numerous casino owners ask me what needs to be done to increase customer retention.
Firstly, one needs a higher return to customers. Doesn't necessarily matter whether that return is fixed on total amount wagered (current average 0.1-0.3%) or percentage of losses returned (haven't seen this with casinos but sportsbooks often give back 10% of losses at the end of a given period).
Secondly, their marketing - even bonus marketing - should be targeted at RETURN customers, not necessarily new customers. The industry retention rate is around 15% over a six month period - that is, 85% of customers stop playing at a casino sometime within the first six months.
This is because of two things - the number of casinos offering new player bonuses, and the LACK of casinos offering their return... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: garyzimmer at February 9, 2002, 1:06 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
FairBet--
I should thank you! All of this is helping further my 'education'!
DrHoCasinoManager has given me a new perspective and an enlightening iew of what happens at the other end of all this.
Much of what is written by you, Mary, CasinoNow and others, still goes over my head but some of it is sinking in.
Not a problem!
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| Posted by: FairBet at February 8, 2002, 11:28 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Casino Manager writes:
“The other question is -- from a marketing perspective (i.e. psychology) -- does a new player really expect to lose?”
No, of course not. You always go in wanting to win. There is no reason for that to change. However, this is geared more towards the experienced gambler who knows that sometimes he won’t win. (Is there ONE person who gambles that has never lost?)
If I’m going to “pick my site” (The one I plan on playing at for some time) I know that at some point I might go down. When that happens, it is likely to exceed the $50 or $100 bonus I got two months ago (the bonus that I have long since forgotten about.)
In other words, (Real Life) I have bought in and got my "$50" bonus from arious sites, only to end up leaving $2,500 + behind. ..I would have gladly surrendered the $50 bonus for $750 of my own Money Back!
...also, I think you may have missed the part in my original post about offering a new player bonus as well. ...or, to ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at February 8, 2002, 11:13 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
What a terrific discussion!
I agree with much of what is said--and Plummer's "Money Back" idea is intriguing. It would have a slower growth curve than the more conventionally marketed casinos, but that could easily be overcome by the higher player retention rate.
The last statistic I heard on player retention is that a player will play six times and then move on...and I wouldn't be surprised if that number goes down.
The "excuse" given by the Big Four Software firms that they don't want this new marketing model cannibalizing existing casinos doesn't entirely ring true, as they continue to open new sites. I have noticed that both Boss and Cryptologic have moved to marketing to existing land-based operations--which also helps with the differentiation issue.
Microgaming has the largest game suite, by far, allowing some differentiation on the basis of game selection.
RTG is already cannibalizing existing casinos with new ones.
I si... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at February 8, 2002, 10:52 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Joe,
The other question is -- from a marketing perspective (i.e. psychology) -- does a new player really expect to lose? In other words, up-front bonuses are "positive" thinking because it's "free" money, whereas loss rebates are "negative" thinking, because it assumes that you're going to lose, but lose less than elsewhere.
I do agree that it shifts the marketing expense accurately to where it belongs -- to the people who "deserve" it the most. But it strikes me that you're always better off marketing the positive, which is to bonus new customers with a sign-up bonus, and regularly bonus your losing customers but without reminding them that you're directly linking their pain to the size of the rebate.
Casino Manager www.drho888.com www.drholite.com www.drho.com
P.S. Dirk -- thanks for the post...I should probably keep that in my HR file for the next contract discussion!
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| Posted by: garyzimmer at February 8, 2002, 10:49 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
DrHoCasinoManager--
I believe the 'differentiated' player would simply go away if casinos would collectively agree to end 'free money' opportunities.
Your post doesn't demean the 'small' player but portrays him as 'insignificant', yet most marketing done by casinos seems to target $50, $75 and $100 depositors by offering bonuses matched to those numbers.
Playing through even 5 times, irrespective of what software I am playing, has been a near impossibility of late. I suspect this is because casinos have 'tweaked' the software making it near impossible to win, in order to make up for 'bonus' losses in the past.
I am still convinced that anything over a 7 or 8 time playthrough requirement is a 'non' bonus and a discerning player should be insulted by it being offered because the casino knows that the ast majority of players will never reach it. That is why they 'require' it!
It is so easy to come on this board and talk unemotionally about 'pursuit' of profit. ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FairBet at February 8, 2002, 10:33 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
That is one of the common arguments, and here (hopefully I don't get shot by the other casino operators) I go with the "First is Better" approach.
I do believe something similar to this WILL replace the current “comp wars” going on among casinos. This being the case (as familiarity with and expectation of such an offer rises) having the perfect brand (IE: MoneyBackCasino.com) will be highly beneficial to the company who first brings this concept to the table.
I do understand the problems with “comp wars” for the casinos. However, I also realize it is already going on and I expect the “Money Back” comp model might ery well (in the long run) benefit the casinos more than the current "free money" approach. It goes without saying that it will also shift the current “promo expenses” into the hands of those most likely to have earned them.
------------------
Joe Plummer www.fairbet.org
[This message has been edited by FairBet (edited 02-08-2002).]
<... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at February 8, 2002, 9:52 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Joe,
Let's say your idea catches on, and a bunch of online casinos start to offer money back guarantees. As an operator, don't you get stuck in the same icious cycle of competing on the basis of how much cash back you're promising? Same thing as competing on the basis of bonuses.
As for fast payouts, good customer service, etc. -- I agree completely, but the reality is that there are quite a number of major operators who do offer this already. IMHO, this board, while extremely helpful in getting an unresponsive casino to respond to a problem, may not be indicative (at least for the reputable, major operators) of the AVERAGE (i.e. majority) customer experience, since people who have problems complain, and those who are satisfied, often don't post.
Casino Manager
www.drho888.com
www.drholite.com
www.drho.com
[This message has been edited by DrHoCasinoManager (edited 02-08-2002).]
[This message has been edited by DrHoCasinoManager (edited 02-08-2002)... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dirk_Dangerous at February 8, 2002, 9:51 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
DrHoCasinoManger,
I really feel the need to commend you on your post above. It is by far one of the most intelligent posts I’ve seen written by a casino employee. Your points and comments are not only true and insightful (at least as I see the current state of the industry), they were completely devoid of the emotional “oh, we’re being hurt by bonus hunters” type comments so often expressed by those from the casino side.
It’s obvious you have a firm grasp of the online gaming industry; and it’s equally obvious you know how to maintain a professional and realistic attitude about the often controversial bonus issue. I’m sure you attitude will serve you and your casino well.
Ask your boss for a raise; IMO, you deserve it.
Dirk
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| Posted by: FairBet at February 8, 2002, 9:38 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Ok, so I have the "differentiating" feature.
It is called "Money Back Casino" and it will accomplish a few things (if run by the right company.)
1. Greater Player Loyalty / Greater Player Value: If I'm a real gambler and know I might lose a few grand by the end of the year, I'd rather play somewhere that offers me everything I want and need AND will guarantee me a percentage of my money back.
As you've already said, everybody is offering the same games...why bother risking big bucks at a site that might send you a $10 comp chip, when another will guarantee you more?
2. Reduce fixed expenses: Currently, Casinos pay 25 - 50% to their webmasters. By giving 25% - 35% of that money back to the players instead, the casino will end up with a smaller expense. Odds are, (over time) a $1,000,000 fixed expense paid out to webmasters will cost the casino far more than $1,000,000 paid back to players who (in many cases) will return to play with their “Money B... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at February 8, 2002, 8:43 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
To contribute a iew from the House perspective (I am a casino manager) ---
The crux of the bonus hunter and casino anti-hunter policies really boils down to a marketing issue. Right now, players are offered the same games at almost every casino. Moreover, even though the industry reports say that there are 1400 online casinos, most of them are using software from one of 4 major software providers or 6 or so "second tier providers." If you line up screen shots of a game like blackjack produced by these 10 licensors against each other (which we do when speak at conferences and with investment analysts), they look pretty much the same, since the licensors don't do much else but change the "skin" of the games (e.g. the color of the felt) and the websites. Bottom line -- the playing experience is the same at most honest casinos.
Basic economics -- a commodity product with lots of competition means that as Q (quantity) goes up, P (price) goes down. In our business, that m... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: garyz at February 8, 2002, 8:19 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Joeyl--
I admit I'm spoiled! The bonus programs have been ery good to me.
I simply recoil in hostility when I hear the term 'bonus hustler' used by casinos, knowing that with 'straight up' play, we are the ones being hustled.
Continued good luck to you!
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| Posted by: joeyl at February 8, 2002, 4:44 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
I think i get you Zim..I was'nt digging at you.I just don't want to miss a trick..
I look at it this way;I take the 100% bonuses regardless of the playthrough because they double the amount of goes i get to hit a Royal on the /poker,Jacks or Better.
I calculate i've played about 15'000 hands in my online play altogether and i've hit one Royal.I gather that's quite lucky because i think i read i should get one every 40'000 hands..
Without bonuses i am pretty sure i would'nt have had enough money to my name to play 15'000 hands.So i am grateful for the bonuses,large playthrough's or not..
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| Posted by: eek at February 8, 2002, 3:32 pm | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
I must be thick.
I just use the bonus a a 'buffer' and cash out any winnings. Leaving the bonus in the casino, to play for fun and more if possible.
Crypto has been 15x bonus for a while and i've managed to pay my credit card debts off from arious winnings.
(Not skill, just a lucky punter.)
These conversations are aimed at 100% payout from casino.
You can cash out 80% if you want to peeps.
eek
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| Posted by: garyzimmer at February 8, 2002, 9:14 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
*******
Seems to me people only play with a bonus,am i missing something here?I deposit without bonuses because i've been led to believe i'd soon be classed as a bonus abuser if i don't play without them sometimes.I play more than the terms and conditions of any bonus i get too.
Am i crazy,or slow or both?
*******
Joeyl--
There is 'rabid' competition for the gaming dollar. Bonus offers, usually one time offers, give a player a singular 'edge', never to be experienced again with that particular casino.
My objection to the Crazy Vegas playthrough
requirement relates to them reducing their enticement to less than 1% and calling it a
'bonus'.
When you play without the benefit of a 'promo offer', in a sense, you're giving the casino a 'bonus' of 3% or more in the form of a 'house advantage'!
And you give it to them 'every time' you play 'straight up'!
They in turn, give you an advantage with a 20 time playthrough requiremen... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at February 8, 2002, 5:17 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
20 x playthrough,for a 100% bonus?
And quite a few opinions in this thread.
Seems to me people only play with a bonus,am i missing something here?I deposit without bonuses because i've been led to believe i'd soon be classed as a bonus abuser if i don't play without them sometimes.I play more than the terms and conditions of any bonus i get too.
Am i crazy,or slow or both?
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| Posted by: FairBet at February 8, 2002, 4:48 am | | Topic: more Crazy Vegas..... Forum: Winner Online |
Hi Rainfall,
Yes, with their particular bonus (and T&C) it is a losing proposition. I was basically just trying to address why "all" sites began implementing the exclusion by default. (When I first started playing online, I spent a lot of time playing roulette. When they began offering bonuses and then began excluding "my" game, I was pretty upset. ...until It was explained to me why they needed to do it. Again, as you’ve pointed out, in this case the original reason does not really apply.
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Joe Plummer
www.fairbet.org
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