| Posted by: joeyl at March 20, 2002, 7:17 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Okay,is this odd?
Jacks or Better,9/6 ersion.$1xmax=$5 a go..
Start on $200.
At $800 play,balance = $450
At $1200 play,balance= $260
That is the worst i've had...I just figure the cards come,the cards go...
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| Posted by: Gamerz at March 19, 2002, 9:17 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Win limit explains how I can only ever get to a certain point with some casinos, then wham, it starts taking it back. The determination to get it back lasts until the bankroll is gone.
I've questioned a couple casinos about this and although this has happened at one in particular, in excess of 30 time, the response is always the same. "You are just having a bad turn of luck." Your bad turn of luck comes when the casino decides it's time, nothing else. That is ery disturbing!
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| Posted by: Tester at March 19, 2002, 3:52 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
My automatic reaction would be to go to the police about that guy. Is someone wanting to be in contact with the Israeli police about that? I guess they should aresst that person.
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| Posted by: garyzimmer at March 19, 2002, 3:43 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Win Limits
The program has a secret window which only you can access through the special code provided to you with the game.
You can enter in this window the maximum limit which the computer's bank can contain. The program will not allow the player to win above this sum.
For example, if you determined that the money in the bank is only $100, even if it is the players' lucky day they (jointly) will not be able to win above this amount. At the moment that they reach this amount the program will cause them to start losing.
If you determined that the amount in the bank is $100 and the next gambler loses $1000, the gambler who comes after him will be able to win the balance of $1100 less the 10% which the program automatically "takes" for you and puts away as your untouchable profit (i.e. $990).
However, if a large amount accumulates in the bank, i.e. because a player lost $20,000, you can reduce the balance by setting a new limit.
We suggest that you don't reduce the balanc... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at March 19, 2002, 1:42 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at March 19, 2002, 1:41 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
http://home.barak-online.net/y-igal/
Copyright © 1995-2001 I.M.G. Interactive Multimedia Games All rights Reserved
Build Your Own Casino!
If you have a place where people can sit down and play,
all you need is our program and a simple PC.
Our program enables you to set up Casino games in your business, while you serve as the Casino owner, take in money from the players and pay them their wins.
The program's graphics are appealing, and its rate of response far surpass any of the Casino sites on the Internet. The carefully crafted sounds will make you feel like you are sitting in a real casino.
The player will not know whether he is gambling in an Internet casino or only on your computer.
The program enables you to completely control the amount of the wins, so you don't have to be concerned with "What if someone wins a million dollars?" You determine the amount of the wins.
The information is completely secure since it uses software and hardwa... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: garyzimmer at March 19, 2002, 1:30 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
home.barak-online.net/y-igal
The program enables you to completely control the amount of the wins, so you don't have to be concerned with "What if someone wins a million dollars?" You determine the amount of the wins.
Hmmmm......
[This message has been edited by garyzimmer (edited 03-19-2002).]
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| Posted by: MC Ren at March 17, 2002, 5:38 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Thanks Joey!
Hahaha....here I was thinking that maybe casinos were putting things on my computer to track my play or something......you know some kind of conspiracy theory.....oh well, guess I just have to keep chalking it up to bad luck
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| Posted by: joeyl at March 16, 2002, 6:51 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Dear Test..Thanks again for the registry thingy..You are my hero!
What i meant may not have been clear.I meant no software provider has allowed independent testing of thier product as far as i know.
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| Posted by: Tester at March 16, 2002, 5:32 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
1) I am not claiming its impossible to cheat. I just pointed out that it is not that simple. Possible? certainly.
2) I am not owning Micro. My advice how to change the Micro settings through the regitery records was my own home work. As a programmer I am aware of those tricks. It takes me just several minutes.
3) I am always open to consult for online casinos. I think that I have the abilities to increase income in some ways. However, I do not know what rates can I get from online casinos. This is the reason why I have not jump into this area so far.
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| Posted by: joeyl at March 16, 2002, 12:48 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Tester.I don't feel the ideo poker at micro is fixed,so to speak..So i will use Micro as an example.You make it sound almost impossible to rig.Why then,can no one independently check thier software properly?
You are the Tester.How come no-one like you can test thier software or whatever it takes,with thier blessing?..
Sending game logs to PWC proves the game logs they sent are good.Do PWC have access to the software though,to check to make sure they have all the gaming logs?
Who are PWC anyway
If you owned Micro,would you allow independent testing?Or would you hide behind the "they might nick our code" arguement?
More to the point.. Can anyone prove it's NOT rigged?
[This message has been edited by joeyl (edited 03-16-2002).]
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| Posted by: Tester at March 16, 2002, 11:22 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
From a programmer's point of iew:
1) almost ALL programs have this feature that the programming is a one time up front expense, while the revenues are steady and coming over a long period.
The lemon: The costs of designing a program is sometimes so high that it takes several years and a lot of costumers just to get expenses back. Lot alone net income.
2) It is not that simple to "tweak" the odds, I will not explain here how it should be done (I am not teaching cheaters here), but:
2.1. A gaming software has lots of programmers involved, its hard that so much people will hold it in their stomach.
2.2. If the option of settign up odds will be on the licensee side, a lot more people will know (several persons in each licensee). If the licensees are supposed not to know, they may reveal it through the statistics in their log files.
2.3. Players may check the software randomness, as has been done a lot.
2.4. Large deviation from teh expectation will be rev... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at March 16, 2002, 9:09 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Don't hold your breath on that one Slot.I asked him about Video Poker but Dr Ho says he does'nt know much about p except to say they have no call for it in Asia.
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| Posted by: slotski at March 16, 2002, 8:44 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Thank you Dr. Ho Casino Manager for an excellent explanation of how the process works.
I know that i speak for many of the regular posters of this site when i say that i really appreciate you taking the time to communicate with us on a regular basis.
It is ery aluable to the players to understand these issues.
Let me know when u have a full pay VP game installed so i can call Dr.Ho Casino HOME, lol.
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| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at March 16, 2002, 6:17 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Software licensors make money in several ways. The deal described below is for a standard, "Joe Blow" client, who is not affiliated with a land based casino (who get entirely different deals due to how highly sought after they are right now by the licensors).
1. Set-up fee: ranges from $10,000 to $250,000. For customizing the basic gaming system to the look and and feel requested by the licensee.
2. Royalties: ranges from 12.5% - 40% of gross gaming revenue (monies lost less chargebacks) on an ongoing basis. Sometimes has a maximum cap. Usually has a sliding scale based on olume.
3. Hosting: some licensors host sites and servers for their licensees for a fee, often between $1,500 and $15,000 per month.
4. Customer support: some licensors charge for providing customer support to the licensees (some throw it in as part of the package); not every licensee necessarily uses the licensor's support. Sometimes charged as a flat fee per month, sometimes charges as a ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: eek at March 16, 2002, 2:08 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
I think that the random numbers should be generated OUTSIDE the casino.
A land based gaming commission run site, like this place.
http://www.random.org/nform.html
which feeds their licenced casinos.
Then the casinos can concentrate on client relation stuff and user interfaces.
eek
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| Posted by: Dancali at March 16, 2002, 1:40 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
It is my understanding that software companies get a cut of the profits. I am not sure of the exact percentage but it is fairly high.
------------------
--Member of the OPA --
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| Posted by: garyzimmer at March 15, 2002, 11:39 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Dancali--(or anyone else)
Devoid of any alid credentials myself, I am in no position to question yours.
I am curious in regard to the source of your information. You're saying that software providers get $2 out of every $5 earned by the casino?
Is that why a software provider such as RTG is willing to use their own funds to make things right with players when a casino bites the dust?
It would seem that profitability is assured for the provider because once the software is written and can be cloned over and over again, there is no limit to the number of copies that can be sold. Once sold, where is the expense?
The casino, in contrast, has many ongoing expenses. Seems a little unfair!
Also, based on that split, if I were a casino owner with deep pockets, I would have my own software written figuring the profits from the first year or two of business would pay for the software, and the ongoing implementation resulting from my investment would then save ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dancali at March 15, 2002, 7:19 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
The software companies would tweak the software since they get a hefty cut of all of the gambling profits. Every time they make you lose an extra $25 hand at blackjack, they get an extra $10 lining their coffers.
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--Member of the OPA --
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| Posted by: Wunjo at March 15, 2002, 7:00 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dancali:
But this still doesn't rule out the ability of the software companies themselves tweaking things around without the knowledge of the casinos.
Why would the software companies tweak their program without the knowledge of the casinos? Isn't it more likely to be the other way around, as in the scenario suggested by Mr. Zimmer?
Btw, I tried playing (for fun) at another MG casino and the result was even worse than my real play at Vegas Villa. At least, the latter allowed me to play a couple of hundred of hands before I started to get that sinking feeling that no matter what cards I got, the dealer was always going to top it, or if not, end with a push.
So what's a small bettor like me to do?
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| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at March 15, 2002, 3:37 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
I think it's conceivably possible for a software company to tweak the algorithms without the knowledge of a land based client, but only for a ery limited period of time.
We get so much olume through our casinos that "n goes to infinity" ery quickly, and the edges should be bang on (within a range) every month. If we started seeing massive distortions, we would know that something was wrong, and to protect our land based franchises (which are worth many billion more than our online franchises) we would immediately take action.
I can also tell you that we met with many, many different licensors before settling on the ones we chose, and never once were we offered the opportunity to "tweak the software". I think that as a licensor, the potential damage of either offering or implementing such a stupid feature (either with or without the knowledge of the land based client) would astly outweigh the benefits. This is especially true of the largest, publically traded licenso... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dancali at March 15, 2002, 12:30 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
I do not think that Microgaming or other software suppliers associated with land based casinos have the option of reprogramming the odds.
If they did, then the land based online casinos would know that other casinos using the same software may tweak things and cheat. And they know that if other casinos using the same software cheated and were found out, it would shine a ery negative light on them for using the same software. Thus, given that they have so much to lose, they wouldn't work with software that even has the potential to cheat.
I am unaware of major groups connected to RTG so this is a different story. Still, even casinos without the land based connection still have a lot to lose and wouldn't want other casinos being able to tweak things around if they keep things fair.
But this still doesn't rule out the ability of the software companies themselves tweaking things around without the knowledge of the casinos.
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--Member of the OPA --
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| Posted by: garyzimmer at March 15, 2002, 7:51 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Dancali--
Quote: Originally Posted by Dancali:
But if you don't trust one game of Microgaming blackjack, then none of the rest will be any better since they all have the same software.
In this age of mind boggling technology, would you consider it possible for a software company to include a supplemental program allowing a buyer (casino) to.... and instructing a buyer how...., to doctor (or tweak) the main program to deliver an 'exact and predictable' result?
I'm not saying any major supplier (RTG, Bossmedia, Microgaming...) includes such a supplemental program with their software but simply stating that possibility.
If this were so, each casino could 'trick up' their software to achieve whatever end result they required on any given day, week, month.. on into ifinity.
I would also consider the possibility that a 'house programmer' could break open the code of any particular gaming software and conduct a little 'foreplay' to deliver an 'exact... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dancali at March 14, 2002, 12:50 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
You should stick with software connected to established land based casinos with their reputation on the line.
One would think that they could trust microgaming since the sunny group of land based casinos uses it. However, maybe the sunny group doesn't mind rigged blackjack, maybe they don't realize what is going on (Micro has it rigged but the licensees aren't aware of this), or maybe Microgaming blackjack isn't really rigged. But if you don't trust one game of Microgaming blackjack, then none of the rest will be any better since they all have the same software.
Big groups are attached to Bossmedia (Atlantis and Dr. Ho) so you should be safe there. Still, there is the chance that Bossmedia could simply tweak things around and the good intentioned Dr. Ho could be dealing a crooked game of blackjack against his knowledge.
RTG seems to have wacky games, if you want a truly random blackjack game you might want to go elsewhere. This isn't to say you can't win at RTG, just that it d... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Wunjo at March 14, 2002, 7:51 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
I've only just started playing BJ online (at Vegas Villa, a MG-powered casino). Although I've only lost $40 thus far, I don't think I'll play there again because I suspect their game to be, as you call it, "tweaked."
My question is, if the software used by one particular casino seems "tweaked," does it hold true for all other casinos using the same software?
Can anyone point me to the best casino for playing single-deck BJ?
Thanks.
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| Posted by: Gamerz at March 11, 2002, 3:12 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Doh!, I can see where you guys are suspicious of my post. I typed 43, but the number was 13. I apologize.
13 BJ's in 300 hands is once every 23 hands. Thats probably not that out of line, but I'd have thought I could have a few more as well.
[This message has been edited by Gamerz (edited 03-11-2002).]
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| Posted by: garyzimmer at March 11, 2002, 2:38 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
quote from skyewin post:
"I know the sample is far too small to be significant but I got a really bad feeling about the game. Doubling was also horribly unlucky for me. I'd get a nine or ten on a ten once in six or seven attempts. The number of times I'd end up with a total of 12-16 was ... disheartening."
I'm seeing more and more of this kind of comment. Each time, the player questioning the 'tweaking' of software, qualifies their suspicion by saying their experience is too limited to be 'significant' indicating a 'fairness' in their evaluation.
I believe there is sufficient reason to question some occurances that defy belief based on frequency alone.
All of this can be explained away with math, but those of us who rely less on equations and more on conditioning ('being reluctant to push a button because a robotic fist emerges from the wall and smacks us' time after time) become reluctant to, as an example, doubledown with the dealer showing a six knowing t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: skyewin at March 10, 2002, 10:30 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
What I find disturbing about Lasseter's lately is the frequency the dealer will hit into 21. Admittedly I'm not an experienced blackjack player so this may be perfectly normal, but out of the 190 decided hands I just played the dealer reached 21 26 times, not including BJs and pushes. The last time I played the frequency of 21s was ery similar although after seeing 12 21s in 60 hands I quit for frustration.
The number of times the dealer dealt itself two 10s also seemed high but I didn't keep accurate records on this stat.
I know the sample is far too small to be significant but I got a really bad feeling about the game. Doubling was also horribly unlucky for me. I'd get a nine or ten on a ten once in six or seven attempts. The number of times I'd end up with a total of 12-16 was ... disheartening.
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| Posted by: Tester at March 10, 2002, 5:15 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Gamerz:
I would welcome "honest software" over bonuses any day. I am not convinced that the software out there random, as most of them advertise.
I have run many numbers and if I wanted to take the time to graph it, I'm sure I could clearly see where the setup and take down begins and ends.
I'm a gambler...give me reasonable odds, and I'll win sometimes. I realize over the long road the casino will always beat me. Lately, I see nothing better than slaughter for the most part.
The casinos...cough..cough, Microgaming and CON can say what they want. They will never want to have their cover blown. Even if we have them pegged, which I am ery confident that CON uses a switch, they will never risk admitting this in public. For most casual players the games seem fair, but when one measures it over some extended play, it isn't pretty.
Lasseters is another one I've been wondering about, I've tracked about 3000 hands. The dealer has bee... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vickinz at March 9, 2002, 12:42 pm | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
When I began playing online 2 yrs ago Lasseters gave me a coupla 100% bonuses each month and then the dealer regularly won 18 - 24 times in a run. I continued playing there only because of being totally unaware of the existence of other online casinos. Another player (think he was a doctor so couldn't have been brainless) lost around $50,000 posted at the same time that he had his suspicions too. We did contemplate sending our details (as I record every hand) to the Australian Govt licensing authority.
But when such bonuses stopped the dealer stopped those extraordinary winning streaks also, and max. became around 4 - 10 in a row!
Having said that, they are trustworthy in all other respects. I think they are now "on the level" as I win and lose as I should!
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| Posted by: eek at March 9, 2002, 5:41 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
I've been playing lasseters for a couple of hours a day all week on the BJ. Partly to get a few bob if possible, but mainly to see if the software 'turns against you' the longer you play.
For myself, I've yet to get that sinking feeling that signals 'its time to go now' as my balance grows.
The terms of the gaming licence state that the evaluated software module cannot be touched without clearance from the gaming authority.
I would like to see more casinos with this restriction.
just a thought
eek
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| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at March 9, 2002, 5:17 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Shuffling procedures - in response to this thread, we've actually posted pictures of the shuffling process on our revised web site.
From www.drho888.com, click on the Fairness button and enjoy the show!
Casino Manager
www.drho888.com www.drho.com www.drholite.com
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at February 10, 2002, 9:23 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
There's nothing wrong with an infinite deck, if that's what players know they are playing. And it's better for most players.
Here's a Wizard page on it:
http://www.thewizardofodds.com/game/bjapx1.html
If Lasseter's is offering a positive game, that'd be a hoot.
As for counting in Baccarat, according to Thorp and Griffin, it doesn't make a significant difference. The structure of Baccarat as a game is too symetrical. Still, it probably does not hurt to be cautious!
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| Posted by: DrHoCasinoManager at February 10, 2002, 8:07 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
CPA -- that's correct. The rules for handling the cards were copied from the Macau land based rules, and we actually have onsite supervision with pitbosses in the TV studio, as well as internal closed circuit supervision ia WebCam, from Macau. Like I said before, cheating (either deliberate on management's part or on the part of a rogue dealer and a colluder) and the resulting damage from the bad publicity in the mainstream press to the land based casino is probably the best guarantee to the player that there's no monkey business going on.
FYI, the baccarat game is an 8 deck shoe with 4 decks cut-off, which is obviously less than a land based casino which would normally deal 6 decks, but on the other hand, in the privacy of their homes, players could theoretically be using another computer to generate the perfect count.
Casino Manager www.drho888.com www.drholite.com www.drho.com
[This message has been edited by DrHoCasinoManager (edited 02-10-2002).]
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| Posted by: The_CPA at February 10, 2002, 6:18 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
Dr. Ho card Deck procedure:
If I'm not mistaking they actually use the the exact same process for preparing, shuffling, guarding and transfering the decks as they do in the land casino, and then burn them when they are done.
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http://www.CasinoPlayersAdvocate.com
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| Posted by: caruso at February 10, 2002, 5:01 am | | Topic: Tweaking Software Forum: Winner Online |
This, to the best of my knowledge, is the only instance of an "infinite" deck I've come across; re-shuffle occurs after every hand, not every card - unless I've missed something; that Lasseters even call it "single deck" is ridiculous; call it 100-deck, makes no difference - except maybe more players are inclined to play single deck than infinite deck.
Also, given the DOA DAS rules, if this were a genuine single deck it would be a 0.15% player edge game - I wonder if anyone's been caught out by that?
Gamerz - there's no count that can beat 40% penetration (that's the best there is out there), unless you happen to own the Gulf States and can spread 1 to 1000. Passport to tap-out.
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