| Posted by: Geordie at April 4, 2002, 8:45 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by FairBet:
Hi Geordie,
I'm a little unclear regarding the following:
What I basically don't understand is the "played for free" statement and the "casino didn't make any money of us" statements.
If I have to purchase $40 to get $40, and I go broke trying to meet the requirement, then I have lost $40. If I have lost $40, then the casino has in fact made money off my play.
...not trying to be a smart as*. :-)
Joe, it just goes to show how few people take any notice of what I post You are spot on, I hit the sack as soon as I finished that garbage and couldn't be bothered to get out of bed again to remove it.
This is the SMARTASS
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| Posted by: Trader v1.1 at April 4, 2002, 7:26 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
Joe, I understand your point, and if someone is actually betting according to your example, they should be getting multiple small bonuses per month. Management will rake in a lot of that person's money in the long run.
If you deposit $150, get a $50 bonus(the monthly deal at Omni Casino), and bet $200 on a single hand of blackjack you cannot split or double. This gives the casino a major advantage over you. The Cryptologic game lets you split once and double each hand, so if your initial bet is more than 1/4 of your bankroll, you are throwing away your advantage under the rules. I see this happen almost every time I play in the multiplayer ersion. It is a major reason why the payout percentage is so much less than the theoretical house advantage would indicate, and it occurs at every online casino. These same players will then whine that the games must be fixed.
Even the small monthly bonuses offered by these casinos have a positive expectation, but not if you throw it away by overbett... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FairBet at April 4, 2002, 5:30 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
Hi Geordie,
I'm a little unclear regarding the following:
Quote: Originally Posted by Geordie:
...you played for 'Free' the two months before that. Hell, they even gave you $80 to play with...
…The flaw in this reasoning from the players point of iew is that you already GAVE BACK the Bonus money from the previous months. Sure, the casino didn't make any money off us, but we are down $80 of our own money....
What I basically don't understand is the "played for free" statement and the "casino didn't make any money of us" statements.
If I have to purchase $40 to get $40, and I go broke trying to meet the requirement, then I have lost $40. If I have lost $40, then the casino has in fact made money off my play.
...not trying to be a smart as*. :-)
------------------
Joe Plummer www.fairbet.org
[This message has been edited by FairBet (edited 04-04-2002).]
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| Posted by: Geordie at April 3, 2002, 11:16 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by jeroenp:
and hell no you are NOT STUPID!!!!!
You didn't see how long it took me to type that last post :;
I know its a safety mechanism for the Casino. You deposit $40, they give you $40 so you have $80 to try and get through $1200 of action. You don't make it (surprise) Next month, same thing. Come April you try again, you get lucky and want to cash out your winnings, which you believe only includes $40 of 'their' money.
They don't see it like that, you played for 'Free' the two months before that. Hell, they even gave you $80 to play with, so now they want you to risk your $191 over another $2400 worth of wagers in order to qualify for ALL the bonus money you've had off them.
The flaw in this reasoning from the players point of iew is that you already GAVE BACK the Bonus money from the previous months. Sure, the casino didn't make any money off us, but we are down $80 of our own money. (There you have the problem with offering ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Geordie at April 3, 2002, 9:28 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
Sorry, I really must be stupid but I've been through the Bonus T&C on William HIll and I can't see anywhere that you could infer that if you don't playthrough enough in a particular month to earn the Bonus for that month then when you deposit a second time that you have to keep playing on the original Bonus requirements plus the latest one to qualify.
(not the world's most coherent sentence, but I hope you get my drift)
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| Posted by: FairBet at April 2, 2002, 5:41 pm | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
I have a major problem with them expecting players to "meet wagering requirements" even after the player has lost all possible "bonus leverage."
My understanding is that the wagering requirements are in place so that a player cannot "unfairly" stack the odds of winning in their favor (using the bonus money.) ...Fair enough.
But If I buy in for $150, get a $50 bonus, place a $200 bet (and lose) there is no more "bonus" advantage...the bonus and my initial deposit are both gone.
When I return to purchase $500, place 4 blackjack bets of $100 (and lose) I SHOULD be able to cash out my $100 bucks if I want. (For that matter, if I place 4 blackjack bets and WIN I should be able to cash out MY money.) In other words, to place additional wagering requirements on what was / is 100% my own money (risked, lost or won) is in my eyes WRONG.
For the record, I have written a few long letters to Crypto about this, but have yet to get this chan... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: BlackjackInfo at April 2, 2002, 5:19 pm | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
I agree with Trader. I play several of these Cryptologic bonuses each month. It's nice to not have to worry about how much over the requirements they really want.
The Crypto joints set the requirements high enough so they're not worried about losing substantial amounts to hit-and-run bonus collectors.
Just being able to play someplace without having to worry about whether I'll be paid is a big plus in my opinion. The bonuses are just gravy. You may not like the terms, and I agree that the deficit from prior months is confusing, but these guys deserve a lot of credit for running straight-up trustworthy organizations.
Heck, I've signed up for so many now that my temporary PIN is useless. I have to wait for the permanent one to arrive before I can deposit!
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| Posted by: Trader v1.1 at April 2, 2002, 5:11 pm | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
I think the Cryptologic casinos are getting a bum rap. Their bonuses are small and meant only for people who play a significant amount. The terms are fairly disclosed, although I do know of a few times where the casinos made mistakes. Omni Casino admitted to a problem in sending out emails last year, and Casino 8 failed to change the terms on its web site promptly one month. I have always been paid whatever I was due promptly by all Cryptologic operations.
If you are only looking for a quick and easy bonus to pocket, these are not good candidates for you and the casinos want it that way.
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| Posted by: eek at April 2, 2002, 1:26 pm | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
The problem is, the bonus is carried forwards.
So if he failed to make the aggregate total for 4 months at $40 a go, he couldn't cash out $160 this month is the way I see it.
Until the wagering requirements are met...
So thats a total of 4x1200permonth=ABOUT FIVE GRAND!
Its not really a bonus in the spirit of the english language. Its a marketing scam.
But it does look like he can withdraw his original deposit of $40 if he doesn't like it.
eek
I presume that in this example, if he won $300 he could withdraw $140 but the $160 stays locked in until the wagering requirements are met.
[This message has been edited by eek (edited 04-02-2002).]
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| Posted by: jen at April 2, 2002, 12:31 pm | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
"To cash out this bonus, you must wager an aggregate total of $1200 at the casino for the $40 bonus." is written on the WH casino web site.
I have failed to find anything about cash-in of winnings.
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| Posted by: Dann at April 2, 2002, 11:30 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by zrapture:
... there is nothing that we are going to be able to help you with...
We ? When have you ever helped anyone? Smart-ass replies with no subtsance doesn't qualify as help.
[This message has been edited by Dann (edited 04-02-2002).]
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| Posted by: Syd at April 2, 2002, 11:19 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
I really like William Hill. I still haven't received my pin but I took them on a sign up bonus offer and was up almost 700 - from 200 that's pretty good for me.
I should have waited for the pin to play again...anyway, I just got another offer for 40. So could someone explain what would happen if I take them up on it and say get ahead again by about 800? How much of that would be mine? I really think the game is fair here. Should I just stay away from the bonus altogether???
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| Posted by: zrapture at April 2, 2002, 10:21 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
This has been their rule for a while now. This rule does suck but it is known and there is nothing that we are going to be able to help you with.
It's also not worthy of being called a scam in your title. I hate seeing players "cry wolf" with their scam allegations. It makes it that much tougher to sort the real scams from some player who is just mad because he didn't understand how a casinos bonus system works.
If this is your idea of a scam, then you should quit online gambling, because this is nothing.
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| Posted by: Geordie at April 2, 2002, 9:49 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
So let me get this straight:
You are saying that William Hill won't let you withdraw any winnings gained during a particular months Bonus offer IF you have a backlog of previous months that you didn't play enough to get the Bonus?
Basically each month is not treated independently?
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| Posted by: Geordie at April 2, 2002, 7:52 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
Jeroen, Is this the part you mean?
'Promotions are intended to be used in the calendar month in which they are given. The Casino and/or its authorized agent reserve the right to remove promotional funds if the promotion requirements are not fulfilled within the same month, or in the event of account inactivity.'
Did you come under 'Account Inactivity'?
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| Posted by: jeroenp at April 2, 2002, 6:00 am | | Topic: williamhillcasino.com scam need help! Forum: Winner Online |
hi all
today the 2 april i deposited $40 to get $40 free at williamhillcasino (cryptologic)
i wagered $1200 at blackjack and had about $191 profit
but i coudn't withdraw it because my withdrawal limit was only $40 at withdrawal at the cashier so i let them phone me.
A lady said to me on the phone this: You wagered previous months not enough so you need also to wager that to egible to cashin this months promotion
These are their terms:
http://www.williamhillcasino.com/us/free.htm
scroll down a bit
I have enough with cryptologic crap
I never got any problems with rtg, microgaming, oddson, even gamblingsoftware.com
I heared about 49ercasino.com that they not payout break the bank
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