| Posted by: EMCsquare at April 14, 2002, 11:20 am | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
I believe that the only way to curb gambling urge is to understand the odd of gambling . and the only way to do this is to become a successful and disciplined advantage player ( coupon , bonus ? )or maybe professional player .
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| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at April 13, 2002, 8:54 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
WAGER REQUIREMENTS!! The whole point of the casinos having wager requirements is to keep players from cashing out with a small win, or after breaking even. They know what is going on.
In the beginning, they gave free money, and people would just cash out without playing at all.
Then they gave free money and said you must wager it. Fine. People wagered it once and then cashed out.
Okay, so now they have multiple wager requirements. Most RTG casinos have "over the top" wager requirements, just to prevent players ever cashing out. Most of them require a multiple wager through just to get the bonus, and then a wager through to cash out.
Online casinos, for the most part, have learned that lesson. There are still a few more they are slow about, but that one they get.
AS
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TheAPage.com
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| Posted by: vickinz at April 13, 2002, 1:02 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
KM: Sound advice. I totally agree if one has been down and got it back, probably that's about all the luck you are gonna get...but I still do dumb things on land,like on last $10 getting back $1000, only to donate it all back. But slowly learning that conserving capital means I can continue playing, even if not profit.
It's so true that the biggest thing casinos have going for them is our greed in always wanting that bit more.
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| Posted by: KM at April 13, 2002, 8:38 am | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
The way I have maintained my marriage during my gambling has been to tell my wife what's going on...up or down. She doen't want to hear the "if I had only....." stories, but she hears about win totals and losses.
Her dad gambled the milk and mortgage money away and do she was hungry as a child because of it.
The only reason she let's me play/gamble is that I never lose a lot when I lose, and I generally recover and make some. I've had a great year and a neutral year and now I'm relatively neutral. (Finally starting to beat the online casinos)
My ultimate strategy is to have a large bankroll and quit when I'm up or down just 1-2-3% of that amount. You can't survive trying to make 100-200-300% every time.
How many people go to Vegas and quit when they are up 5-10%? Not a bad annual return, but not enough when you take $100-200-$300.
The casinos thrive on the people who have to double/triple etc their money AND THEN IF THEY DO, they give it back. How long ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vickinz at April 12, 2002, 7:27 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
Woody: I think posters at these forums are smart and generally selfdisciplined. I have had fun, excitement, pleasure and profit from online gambling.
AS: It may not be the loss of money by itself that prompts suicides; it may be the prospect of not being able to gamble in the future that tips the scales. I think the article indicated the young man who died just didn't want to have to fight the gambling urge everyday for the rest of his life.
[This message has been edited by ickinz (edited 04-12-2002).]
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| Posted by: Woody0 at April 12, 2002, 6:57 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
Vicki,
Its a sad fact that some people get in over their heads. I think you're right that its part of an addiction prone personality. One day when more is known there might be a pill for it.
Land based casinos have no scruples either. Several years ago Atlantic City casinos were sending private jets to Toronto for a player who was in part of the financial services industry and embezzling his company for several millions to support his weekend habit.
On the other hand gaming provides entertainment and for many might equal the cost of a restaurant meal, movie etc.
For a few it provides supplemental income. I always thought this board primarily addresses this later group.
While we can regret the sad situation of those out of control, we few advantage players are probably only getting the crumbs falling off an enormous feasting table.
[This message has been edited by Woody0 (edited 04-12-2002).]
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| Posted by: vickinz at April 12, 2002, 6:20 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
Gamerz: I'm ahead online but welldown on land. Had I not been such a land loser, I'm sure it would have been disastrous for me online. I only gave it a go cos I knew I could get son to take the contraption away if I lost control. I lose 95% of the time on land, often not even getting ahead at any point, even though I enjoy the buzz there. I'm a firm believer in luck, and think it's just not a lucky place for me. A few others I have spoken to find it ery lucky; on small stakes they have won many jackpots/cars/trips/prizes. It's surprising the number of repeat winners there are.
KX: I don't know whether the Swedish will have as many problems being generally better educated and self-disciplined; but IMO they probably will have some. I'm not meaning to sound racist at all, coming from a minority group myself, but I do notice that certain classes/races are predominant at my land casino. This has begun to concern the groups themselves.
Because of the sloppiness of dress and the heavy smoky a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at April 12, 2002, 6:12 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
The difference is that if I lost $53000 or $153000, I would not consider killing myself over it!
That's how a particular person would react to a situation. Most people would not consider money something to kill yourself over, sure agonize and regret, but not self-termination.
That is another type of illness. Most people realize that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Besides, alive or dead, others will still have to deal with what is left behind, so it seems like the ultimate selfish act to me.
AS
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TheAPage.com
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| Posted by: markhowy at April 12, 2002, 5:59 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
Gambling is unfortunately a cruel way of obtaining money from people.
Its all about ego!
We think that we can find a magical way of managing our money to beat the odds, most gamblers are not clever enough to understand that a mathematical method using arying stakes can never work. But we either think that our look is in, someone is watching over us, or we are smarter than the casinos, and the maths that underline them. As for loosing everything, your wife, your home, car etc, this goes for alcoholics, drug and solvent abusers also. The answer is if your weak, then you fail in life in general. Gambling should be treated as a little fun, and not taken so seriously,the man who lost the $53000 dollars, could have had the same bets over the same period of time, and bet less on each bet. The rule is not to try to make a living out of it, unless you are exceptionally talented with maths! Which there is surprisingly alot of you out there who are!
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| Posted by: Gamerz at April 12, 2002, 5:39 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
Online gambling is far, far more destructive, at least for me, than landbased. I have played for 30+ years and am certain I have not dropped the amount over that time, as I have in the past year online. This alone convinces me that you cannot last as long, nor win as much online. Infact, you stand a much larger chance of losing!
I can make $500 bucks give me lots of action, over a weekend in Vegas, but normally cannot last 2-3 hours on that amount online.
[This message has been edited by Gamerz (edited 04-12-2002).]
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| Posted by: vickinz at April 12, 2002, 2:36 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
KM: I agree with you, despite being an almost daily gambler!
Yes, NZ for it's small size has such huge ariety, snowfields to ski, mountains to climb, fjords - Lord of the Rings, Xena, Hercules, and many other films are being filmed here due to our splendid landscape.
Hop over for the Americas Cup Challenge series when many of your US billionaires who have boats to try to "grab" The Aulde Mug back from us! Less than 4million, we need your $US, but can foot it with the best despite tiny budgets! $NZ1=$USc.39-.45! Oh for the days of $US1=$NZ.50c! My son has had 3 US guys living temporarily at his house, and they all love the country and food!
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| Posted by: KM at April 12, 2002, 2:20 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
TO BAD FOR NEW ZEALAND.....
A country which is probably light years ahead of the USA for quality of life, is going to ruin itself with casinos.
I was there in 1973 as a 10 year old. NZ left the most positive impression in my entire life.
Still want to go back and isit.... would even consider giving up Us citizenship to become a Kiwi.
KM
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| Posted by: vickinz at April 12, 2002, 2:12 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
Drink, drugs, sex, internet etc of themselves are not bad things, just as gambling is not, and addiction to them often arise out of personality or circumstantial factors. I have never thought otherwise.
But I would NEVER introduce someone to gambling because I know how seductive it has been for me and so many others who had never gambled pre-casino.
NZ got its first casino only 7 years ago giving rise to a lot of sudden gambling fatalities. My son, who has been to Vegas/Reno when on ski trips, says US gamblers there appear ery different as casinos have been available for much longer.
Here, I'm acquainted with dozens of people in financial strife because of land gambling; so many have lost their lifes savings; some have kids who end up without, due to habit, just like any other addiction. The Compulsive Gambling Assn is inundated and the gambling industry has just had taxes towards psychological services increased.
I counselled a 35-yr-old through 3 half-hearted suicide at... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at April 12, 2002, 12:32 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
Vicki,
That is truly a terrible situation for anyone, especially someone who is unable to cope with his problems like that.
Unfortunately, human weakness is as much a part of gambling as anywhere else. You cannot stop people from gambling, if that's what they want to do. Compulsive or not. Long before B&M casinos, people found ways to gamble away their money, and those without computers and who do not go to land casinos continue to find ways to gamble.
Compulsive people will find something to be compulsive about. Lots of people have lost their shirts in the stockmarket and killed themselves and others. Is it the stockmarket's fault?
Obviously, you know that people commit suicide for reasons that have nothing to do with gambling. I think it is more that gamblers are super-sensitive about it, and feel compelled to defend gambling that makes such a personal tragedy into something other than what it is. A personal human tragedy, not a gambling story.
It real... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vickinz at April 11, 2002, 11:55 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
UK friend who told me sad tale, lives not far from tragedy.
My local casi, 10 mins away, has losers committing suicide in their carpark but it's hushed up. Just a few months after opening, a young man, seemingly with everything to live for, hung himself from a transmission tower cos he just could not keep on going fighting the urge to gamble. Others like him since. As the father said, horseracing days are only occasionally, but the casino is open 24 hrs, 7 days! Also within months of opening, employees were before the courts for embezzling big sums for casi gambling.
The casi was allowed to proceed because of the jobs/revenue it would provide, but I think the crime/social problems arising from it has probably wiped out any benefits.
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| Posted by: tedm at April 11, 2002, 6:59 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
According to the article, the family tried to settle with the casino and was offered $2,000 as a comp.
The debt was also amassed with a number of credit cards (close to 10).
I have heard of other casinos winning big (ie players losing) with a similar result (suicide). This industry is far darker than some people realize.
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| Posted by: vickinz at April 11, 2002, 1:57 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
Simme: It would be the other way around for me. If I had no money, I wouldn't risk it, but would save instead. The poor loser obviously did not have $53,000 pounds; that's why he did what he did!
Lasseters has the best feature of all for those who lack self control/discipline re gambling! They have a weekly self-set feature which can't be changed while money in account, but can be altered whenever zero balance! I had set it at ariously $10/25/50 pw depending on my luck LOL!
I agree that the bigger longer-established places would probably be doing well e.g. Golden Palace, Sands etc. I was speaking to someone in the know re casino business who had been told that Lasseters online arm is doing really well. In the 2+ years I've observed them getting smarter and smarter.
[This message has been edited by ickinz (edited 04-11-2002).]
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| Posted by: KM at April 11, 2002, 12:43 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
If the online casinos could come up with a way to really convince us that they are legit and don't tweak the software or intervene with the server, then I for one would not be influenced by any bonus/promotion.
In reality, the $40 a month bonus I get at William Hill is almost a hassle s. a reward. I did enjoy the surprise bonuses at CON, but I obviously they gave me the willy's about tweaking and no amount of bonuses could justify staying around.
Get a $100 bonus and then lose hundreds more of my own? ....... NO WAY!
KM
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| Posted by: TheDude at April 11, 2002, 12:13 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
I like the fact that some casino software allows a monthly limit to be applied at signup. When signing up with an iChance casino the signup form gives monthly limit options. I am not endorsing this particular software, just the only one I can think of off the top of my head that supports this feature. Also I am not sure how easy it is to have this limit raised as I have not deposited. But overall a good concept none the less. IMO, someone who knows they get carried away at times might take advantage of this, also allowing them to set their own budget.
It would be even better to see a casino actually take a proactive stance with players who seem to be playing too much (and losing). Obviously this is a pipe dream though, as it would be counter productive for the casino.
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| Posted by: KX at April 11, 2002, 11:19 am | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
If you´re interested, why not read the reports from Cryptologic and Boss Media since they are publicly listed companies.
Boss is ery straight forward in reporting their wins from GoldClubCasino, while Cryptologic still hasn´t admitted its relationship to Intercasino.
To me it seems like the big ones are doing great, while several small one´s have a hard time surviving.
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| Posted by: vickinz at April 11, 2002, 8:26 am | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
A casino manager posted costs of a promotion a year ago and there wasn't any profit.
Going by these boards, I couldn't see how they could ever make much; and some obviously don't else they wouldn't have trouble paying or close after a few months. Hearing of the above, there may be more bigger spenders and/or inexperienced newbies who play than I thought.
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| Posted by: Tester at April 11, 2002, 7:03 am | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
No doubt that there are big losers. The issue is how much winners there are, and what is the percentage of the turn over that goes to the costs.
If you deposit and cashout the same amount, the casino has lost at least 5-10% of that amount because of ecash costs, before counting the overheads, and Customer service.
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| Posted by: vickinz at April 9, 2002, 3:38 pm | | Topic: Been naive; just realised some lose big online! Forum: Winner Online |
Having only come across generally "in control" savy online gamblers such as those who frequent these forums, I tended to think that online casinos had a harder time of it than most posters realised.
A UK pal emailed me sad tale of how gambler lost his wife and ended up running up 53,000pounds (so lot of $US) on his card, then hanged himself because of not knowing how to tell his family and pay the debt. Pal said it would have been interesting to know which casinos they were.
Someone also told me they lost their home playing online.
It would seem that online casinos do have so big losers. I suppose it shouldn't surprise me as I actually know land gamblers who have lost up to $2million. So why can't they pay up as they should when players win.
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