| Posted by: vickinz at May 23, 2002, 7:42 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
The esoterics/math are over my head.
But I have played baccarat on my land casino for 4.5 years (average 3 times a week) until this year. I haven't met anyone who card counts at this game, unlike blackjack where many I know, do.
But dealers have told me of a couple of ery experienced baccarat whales who consistently win in the VIP room upstairs; I don't know whether they use some sort of system or are just lucky.
But I've actually seen some regulars win $100,000 - $250,000 sometimes in the space of a few hours and know it's due to their luck and intuition on that particular day/night; cos they have then lost it all back within days/weeks.
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 23, 2002, 6:03 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
The website was just to prove the point.
I repeat again for your benefit, because you cannot seem to comprehend English:
There are a limited number of situations in which you can take advantage of the "skill" in Baccarat. Your expected change in profit is so miniscule as to be negligible.
Just about every other place - including WinnerOnline, classifies Baccarat as a game of chance.
So far, all you have done is proven that you are splitting hairs. You cannot accept the fact that you have been nailed to the wall, so keep looking for ways to get off the hook.
Quote:
Thanks for the info on Wonging the slots - that was one revelatory experience (yawn); forgive me if they do not become my game of choice. To each his own.
Here comes the little sly racist **** again. Forget the fact that Stanford Wong is one of the world's most famous gambling experts - the only reason for using the term Wonging is because you have to have your little dig.... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at May 23, 2002, 10:34 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Yes, you took three; I'll try, in one.
Don't try to kid anyone following this BS that the fact you can type "Baccarat" into a search engine and come up with a link to a relevant web page says anything about your prior knowledge on the subject. OK, name a subject; I'll stick it in Google, see what I come up with, paste a link, and bleat on about how this is my frigging "Coup De Grace". This is a little transparent, babe.
You knew nothing; Dirk and I kindly filled you in and you just can't live with the fact that you've learned something, can you?
That's sad, man.
I said:
A game of skill justifies a book; a game of no skill does not justify a book.
If you think the fact that you've got every "John Patrick On Winning Slots" on your shelf somehow invalidates my comment, I have nothing to say; you know exactly what I mean; the fact that a BS topic has BS books written about does not mean that said BS books are "justifie... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at May 23, 2002, 9:05 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
You forgot the emptiers Spear.
Lots of emptiers relating to fruit machines here in England.
Some amount of skill involved remembering them all.
All but gone now though.Chipped i believe is the correct wording.
There is a small amount of skill needed to locate a machine that is backing,amongst the din of background noise in arcades.
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 23, 2002, 8:30 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
I'm a bad boy. I responded four times when I was only given one last shot.
The coup de grace:
http://www.1freebaccarat.com/www/cardcaounting2.htm
The final table indicates the expected revenue per 100 bets and a $1000 wager every time a positive expected alue occured. Please remember that this table assumes the player is able to keep a perfect count and the casino is not going to mind the player only making a bet once every 475 hands of less.
[code]
Penetration Expected Profit
Banker Player Tie
90 percent $0.01 $0.00 $0.00
95 percent $0.20 $0.06 $0.15
98 percent $2.94 $1.77 $11.93[/code]
Just how often does a casino go to 98% deck penetration? And who the hell is going to wait 475 hands to bet $1000 - multiplied by 100 bets (47500 hands) - to make a profit this miniscule?
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
[This message has been edited by Got2Bet (edited 05-23-2002).]
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 23, 2002, 8:20 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Actually, I am wrong about slots - I forgot a number of things.
There is at least one slot - Ripley's Believe it or Not - where being a trivia buff will pay bigger dividends during the bonus game.
There is skill involved in choosing a certain type of slot machine in which the bonus sections are heavily loaded and about to pay off (ie. Piggy Bank).
And, in the UK and Netherlands (and perhaps some other countries), slot machines there (commonly referred to as fruit machines) have skill stops and nudges as well as indicators of when the bonus jackpot is going to pay off.
But I guess you didn't know that, did you?
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
[This message has been edited by Got2Bet (edited 05-23-2002).]
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 23, 2002, 8:08 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
a game of skill justifies a book; a game of no skill does not justify a book
One last parting shot - I am willing to bet you anything you like that there are FAR more books on slots than baccarat - thus rendering your silly supposition totally useless.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 23, 2002, 8:06 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Intimidation? Boy, you scare easily if you call that intimidation.
You drew a hypothetical comparison which I did not make or imply. Then tried to make a mountain out of a molehill.
The element of skill involved in Baccarat is so miniscule as to be negligible. The element of skill involved in Blackjack is significantly more because the player can actually influence the final alue of his own cards.
There IS no skill element in slots other than always playing max bet.
That's as clear as it's going to get. Are you happy now? Can we get back to the REAL subject of this thread now?
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: caruso at May 23, 2002, 7:15 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
You asked me HOW one could write a book about a 3-bet no-player-decisions game; clearly, a game of skill justifies a book; a game of no skill does not justify a book; the OBVIOUS inference (to all but the originator, lo and behold) is that you considered Bacc NOT to be a game of skill, something you've desperately been denying ever since; having learned something from me, I can now miraculously "teach you nothing".
Put your testosterone spurs away, big boy - you've won the argument; game, set and match Speary. Your standard intimidation tactics don't work on me (as you may have noticed), but sheer belligerence will do it every time.
Last shot's yours.
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 23, 2002, 5:20 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Should probably have thought it out a bit more LOL - but as HKGambler said, it was intended specifically for Caruso.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: HKGambler at May 22, 2002, 11:30 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
"Nothing personal, but that's a funny statement. Sometimes it's prudent to listen."
"Spear, even the two individuals you mentioned would concede they have much to learn."
No arguments here. But if we look at the whole picture, not to pick one particular phrase, it is clear that Spear made the remark specifically in response to caruso's tone & "teaching", as follows:
"I'm glad to have been of educative alue to you. But why couldn't you just have said "Really? That's news to me."?"
Wisdom will be led to nowhere if one can't see the pearl in a clam.
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| Posted by: Playtherush at May 22, 2002, 10:33 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Dirk_Dangerous:
Nothing personal, but that's a funny statement. Sometimes it's prudent to listen.
Yeah, didn't care too much for that remark either.
Spear, even the two individuals you mentioned would concede they have much to learn.
Ambition and eagerness to improve are important qualities for success in many areas including gambling.
*We now return you to the pissing contest you had been watching.*
Playtherush
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 22, 2002, 1:20 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
I listen to reason, Dirk. But so far Caruso has not taught me anything other than the fact that he tends to read more into my statements than there actually is.
The Wiz can teach me LOTS about gambling, as can the Gamemaster.
I'm willing to own up when I'm wrong. I have done so in the past, and I will do so in the future.
But in this case I'm stating fact, and he's splitting hairs.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: Dirk_Dangerous at May 22, 2002, 12:50 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
There isn't a thing that you can teach me about gambling, darlin'.
Nothing personal, but that's a funny statement. Sometimes it's prudent to listen.
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 22, 2002, 12:43 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
No, I didn't imply you said it - you said it:
Please elaborate on how someone can write a book for the clueless on exactly THREE possible bets which do not have any player input whatsoever.
Hello? Where is there mention of slots? And where is there mention of "beatable"? I think you need a new pair of glasses.
I did NOT imply NOR say that baccarat was about as beatable as slots. I DID say that baccarat has THREE types of bets. Talk about making yourself look silly...
Quote:
There's nothing wrong with not knowing something and then learning about it, darlin' - I do it all the time.
I have said before, and I'll say again, that the situation is so rare as to be negligible - to the point of not being worth mentioning. Maybe some of you can make money counting cards at baccarat. The great, great majority will never be able to do so, whether they are clueless or brainy, informed or not informed.
There isn't a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Wunjo at May 22, 2002, 1:17 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
I, for one, hope Dave R can make public the result of his findings the soonest it becomes available.
Meanwhile, those of us who distrust MG software can simply stop playing at the casinos that use them altogether (Psst, Damian, why make an exception of "Golden Reef"?).
Perhaps, when our numbers reach a critical mass, then they would begin to take steps to shape up so as not to jeopardize their bottom line.
As for casino reviews (including the Wizard's), I find that I'm better off reading the posts here...not just for the information but for amusement as well.
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| Posted by: HKGambler at May 22, 2002, 12:49 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave R:
In fact, its possible to make a windfall of cash -- even with a rigged game.
I am interested in the reasoning behind!
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| Posted by: Playtherush at May 21, 2002, 10:31 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Dave R:
(Green chip/Black chip.)
Oops, sorry for the incorrect assumption. Now you've got me wondering about your handle.
Looking forward to your findings.
Playtherush
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| Posted by: vickinz at May 21, 2002, 4:04 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
I find MG usually goes on long win runs whenever I increase bets, then has a tendency to allow me to win when I decrease. But of course that often happens at my land casino too.
This tiny sample (from 2 nights ago) is indicative when big bets:
First casino: lst hand: push on 21
2nd hand: dealer got blackjack
Second casi: Dealer got blackjack
I should have been smart and bet just $2 cos nearly always win first hands then!
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| Posted by: Dave R at May 21, 2002, 3:47 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Its ME alright.
I will amend my statement. The majority of bj21 users that CONSTANTLY play at MGS powered casinos think the game is rigged. (Green chip/Black chip.) They play the game anyway because they know from a bonus hunting perspective, it CAN be beaten. In fact, its possible to make a windfall of cash -- even with a rigged game.
I have statistical evidence which backs up my theory that a player loses more often during his or her highest bets. This occurrs at 4x or greater than a player's average bet.
This MS Excel spreadsheet is under review by top minds at a major university that I attend. As soon as I make headway, I MAY decide to go public with the results.
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| Posted by: Playtherush at May 21, 2002, 3:17 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Dave R:
The majority of the message posters at bj21.com seem to think it is, and these folks are experienced advantage players.
Oh my, you're digging a bigger hole for yourself with every post.
I assume you are refering to the internet free page. If so, most of the posters there are totally clueless.
What have you done with the real Dave R?;-)
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| Posted by: Dave R at May 21, 2002, 3:11 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
PTR - OK. I'll review this ASAP. (which could take 3 weeks)
Anyway, back to the original topic at hand.
Is Microgaming bj rigged?
The majority of the message posters at bj21.com seem to think it is, and these folks are experienced advantage players.
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| Posted by: Playtherush at May 21, 2002, 1:18 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
To be honest, it's been a while since I read those threads and I don't have the time or any incentive to go through them again. I do remember it took me a few days of free time.
No advance math is required to follow the discussion. I am nowhere near a stats expert either. I believe reading through the entire discussion should give you a better understanding of the protagonists involved.
I can't decide for you if it is worth your time to pursue this.
Edited for spelling.
[This message has been edited by Playtherush (edited 05-21-2002).]
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| Posted by: Dave R at May 21, 2002, 12:44 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
PTR, I will re-review the threads at bj21.com, but I was hoping you would provide me some specific examples, as I am rather short on time, and it could take me ALL night as well as tomorrow to go over this.
I will check and re-check the math. But I am not an expert in statistics and number crunching. Even with my stats on MGS casinos, I had to pass them on to a mathemetics professor to look at, as well as select other people who have a good backround in statistics/probability.
[This message has been edited by Dave R (edited 05-21-2002).]
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| Posted by: mustang at May 21, 2002, 12:32 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Uncovering any wrong doing or whinning? Which are you talking about?
How about mixing in some solutions instead of just rambling on about this casino or that casino screwing you...
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| Posted by: Playtherush at May 21, 2002, 12:23 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Dave R, I already provided a reference. It will take a few hours to read through all the threads but if you are interested, they are all still there on the books & software page of bj21.com. I have other reasons for my opinion but those threads should provide ample proof.
Thanks for the comments. I honestly can't see myself isiting or posting here much in the future as there is way too much noise and ery little signal. I guess it's bound to be the case in due time with unmoderated/loosely moderated boards.
Best of luck in exposing any casino wrongdoing.
Playtherush
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| Posted by: damiandunlap at May 21, 2002, 9:13 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
MUSTANG, WHEN I PLAY, I JUST SIT DOWN AND PLAY, GIVE THE DEALER A TIP AND GO ABOUT MY BUSINESS,
I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SEND THE CASINO A LETTER
OR FLOWERS. SO I CASN HAVE A FAIR GAME THAT BULL SHIZ.
HEY BY THE WAY I AM NOT GETTING ON YOU, JUST CHATTING, SO DONT TAKE IT THE WRONG WAY, SAME WITH U CPA, JUST CHATTING
I TELL ABOUT THE GOOD AND BAD
THIS MY LAST POST FOR A WHILE,
I HOPE U GUY ALL THE LUCK
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| Posted by: garyz at May 21, 2002, 8:27 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
CPA--
I remember! Inevitable alliteration...
CPA---loves Cryptologic
Damian---'but i do worry about new people'
Mustang---'crap in, crap out'
CPA ......cryp (cryptologic)
damian....crip (crips for a better America)
Mustang...crap (cut the shxt, damian)
...I continue to find substance and meaning on WOL, justification for giving up home, hearth and harlots to make time for the ongoing search for truth taking place daily right here!
Syd has to admit, some of this chaff is more fun than the wheat....
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| Posted by: mustang at May 21, 2002, 7:40 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Hey Damian,
No need to jump my sh!t...
I, just like you, are giving my opinion and trying to share with others what works for me.
What is your point? It almost seams like you want to have problems and have casinos steal from you so you can have something to be a bitch about.
I am not talking about KISSING AZZ. I am talking about common courtesy. If I came into your place of business I would be courteous to you. If I had a problem with the service you provided then I would discuss it in a polite and professional manner.
Ever heard the term "beating your head against a wall"? Well, if at the first sign of a problem, you send a casino an email calling them "a-holes" then you are going to put up a wall that you can beat your head up against for as long as you like.
What is your goal? My goal is to gamble, win some, lose some and get my money when I ask for it. I have had ery little trouble with online casinos. I personally feel that i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The_CPA at May 21, 2002, 7:40 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Regulation will solve many problems, but it won't take away the house edge! There will still be complaints and question marks when the random software still does un-natural things.
I hope somewhere in the craziness that some money is being spent in the development of more closely reproducing the table games to that of a land game. That may be easier said than done.
Gary, is there any question in your mind as to what my favorite brand is? Hint, your inaugural post! LOL
Seriously though, this has convinced me to make up a page for our personal favorite casinos. I'd say that's a fair thing for you to ask for.
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http://www.CasinoPlayersAdvocate.com
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| Posted by: caruso at May 21, 2002, 7:36 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
This is what you call common sense, I suppose, in that you imply that I implied that baccarat is about as beatable as slots?
No, I didn't imply you said it - you said it:
Please elaborate on how someone can write a book for the clueless on exactly THREE possible bets which do not have any player input whatsoever.
There's nothing wrong with not knowing something and then learning about it, darlin' - I do it all the time. There is something wrong with not knowing something, then denying the fact after you've learned it; anyway, I'm glad to have been of educative alue to you. But why couldn't you just have said "Really? That's news to me."?
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 21, 2002, 7:06 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
This is why the need for TRUE REGULATION in this industry is so important.
This I totally agree with.
But that does not justify John May's claim of a rigged game in any way, shape or form. You of all people know that sample is totally meaningless - and you of all people know that just being an author does not automatically lend credibility to irrelevant claims.
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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: The_CPA at May 21, 2002, 6:25 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Now I'm curious, are you talking about the site or the message board? I haven't blocked you at either one. The only thing that comes to mind is the cookie setting on the message board was kind of short and some people had to re login. I have now changed it so you can go for one year without logging onto the board.
So if that's what you are referring to, you just enter your username and password and you should go right in and be good to go a year. If you have trouble, email me and we'll figure out. Then you you can come to my board and abuse me some there too! LOL You'd probably like the Spin Doctor! He's on my case this week as well!
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http://www.CasinoPlayersAdvocate.com
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| Posted by: damiandunlap at May 21, 2002, 6:10 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Cpa, it been about the 4th week i can get pass the first page, only your site.
CPA, for the new people , hit search and read what CPa has said in the pass, we all make mistakes , but after the mistakes and proof u still support places, that are f up.
I really dont care, if i can look at you site, but i do worry about new people, that has been getting fooled, by some portals owners sites, have all kind of bull shiz on there site.
Cpa have a nice day, send me 55 dollars protection money, and i want talk to you for a good week
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| Posted by: Dave R at May 21, 2002, 6:01 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
John May has done advanced research on beating biased roulette wheels in brick and mortar casinos. Many years back, when I had purchased several books on the subject, I could not get the information I was looking for, and went to the Green Baize Vampire (John May) for help. I found his information to be the most accurate around. He was ery courteous, and went into depth for me in explaining everything. I should have paid the guy for his services.
PlayTheRush, I'm really glad to see you back on these forums, as you've been the source of a lot of intelligent discussions in the past. We agree on many an issue, and therefore, when you make an allegation that May's calculations are wrong and/or that he lies, I take the allegation ery seriously, and want to investigate it. Please expand futher on your comments. If I find you to be right, I will not be ashamed to admit this.
After I read "The Mathematics Of Gambling" by Thorp, I too became aware that Baccarat could be beatable, unde... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The_CPA at May 21, 2002, 5:30 am | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
Damian,
Although your comments don't dignify a response, I have answered the questions you asked several times on this forum as to how casinos get on our site. I don't care to explain it all again. You can look it up if you like.
I didn't block you...yet! LOL My url isn't in ebonics though, try http://www.CasinoPlayersAdvocate.com
Gary, yes I could block him off my site if I wanted to but I don't do that. Besides, he's obviously not a big fan so I rather doubt he really cares! LOL
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http://www.CasinoPlayersAdvocate.com
[This message has been edited by The_CPA (edited 05-21-2002).]
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| Posted by: garyz at May 20, 2002, 10:54 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
CPA--
Did you block damian from your portal?
Not taking sides! Don't know the issues!
But the answer would be interesting!
Is it actually possible to block one person from 'a' portal without blocking others?
I'm just an uninformed observer but, I am beginning to see a 'line' between those with an 'axe' to grind, meaning portal owners or others in some way in a position to gain from an affiliation with casinos or software providers, and the unwashed masses who are not among the elevated elite.
I am a scrapper but the lines of combat are so obscured I'm having difficulty choosing sides. I do see portal owners 'choosing' a predictable path on this board frequently.
I see nothing wrong with doing so and, in fact, respect them for their declareitive stand. What I'm having trouble with, and I think others are as well, is the lack of candor in regard to their 'real' loyalty. If you have a bias in favor of casinos, because they contribute to your ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: damiandunlap at May 20, 2002, 7:30 pm | | Topic: Microgaming HALL OF SHAME Forum: Winner Online |
CPA/MUSTANG
LET ME TELL U HOW A REAL ZIGGER THINK,
FIRST THE CASINO MAKES THE RULES, IF I WIN BUY THEM I SHOULD BE ABLE TO CASH OUT.
OR TAKE THE BONUS AWAY.
BUT THE WILL CHANGE THE RULES OR TELL CERTAIN GROUPS THEY CANT PLAY, WE SHOULD ALL COME TOGETHER AND BAN THEM
MUSTANG, IF U THINK IT COOL TO BE NICE TO A CASINO TO MAKE SURE U GET PAID , THAT ON YOU,. IF I PLAY BY THE RULES, I WANT TO GET PAID , BY THERE GUIDELINES, BUT WHEN THEY CHANGE THEM IN MIDSTREAM I WILL GET PISS OFF, IT LIKE U KISSING THERE AZZ TO MAKE SURE U GET PAID.
DO U HAVE TO DO THAT IN A LAND BASE NOPE, NOR WOULD I , AS LONG IS I KEEP TO MYSELF, GIVE ME MY CHIPS. A TRUE ZIGGER NOT KISSING AZZ WHEN U TOOK MY MONEY TO PLAY, THEN WHEN I WIN U DONT PAY, SHIZ IN THE HOOD U WILL GET CUT OR SHOT. U STOLE FROM ME, I STEAL FROM U
YOU WANT THE CASINO TO BE NICE TO YOU, WHEN THEY NOT NICE TO ALL.
DO U PLAY ANY CASINO U PROMOTE? CPA AND IF U DO
DO THEY KNOW WHO U ARE?
WHY DONT U TEST TH... | | Read Entire Entry |
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