| Posted by: king888 at May 28, 2002, 4:55 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
The Original Mary
Yes, there is some bonuses to be found at poker rooms too. I am just saying it’s a another ballgame, at least so far.
From being a way from the action for some time, yesterday I was introduced to a new club/room. When entering the room I was chocked to see that the clientele had changed so much since my last isit. The average age among the players has dropped from well over 40 to near 20-25. A lot of fresh blood has been coming lately and hoards of young people is now finding their way to poker rooms, clubs and casinos all over the world. USA is off course still the superior poker arena, but overseas action is skyrocketing According to the latest issue of Poker europa the land based business has tripled the last 3 years. There is no reason given, but I am pretty sure about why. On the contrary to ordinary casinos the poker is working both ways and even more in the way that many are being introduced ia the internet and later on find their way to the land based industry... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vickinz at May 27, 2002, 6:12 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Yes, a player and dealer were prosecuted for collusion first coupla years of casi opening; also other similar situations in the early days e.g. dealer putting $500 chip in his mouth, bar staff shortchanging casino on drinks etc etc. It's government licensed and highly regulated with govt officials on site. Once I asked them about my total in a BJ tournament 2 days before, and they iewed tapes and got back to me within 20 minutes. Media sensationalises the casinos problems so there is transparency.
Kerry Packer, richest man in Oz/main shareholder in Crown I think, plays baccarat mainly, wins and loses several million in a night. Crown Casino (Melbourne) flies in Asian whales some who play $lmilln minimums; think Sydney Casino stopped these junkets because a ery lucky baccarat player won millions and now they don't chase the big stuff anymore. Also Asian economic crisis 5 yrs ago put the kibosh on a lot of that.
IMO there's little to beat a hot predictable streaky baccarat shoe, with 21 ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: damiandunlap at May 27, 2002, 5:30 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
pan9 IS ADIFFERNT VERSON OF BARRACT,
IT UP TO U GET A CARD OR STAY AND YES
7,8,9 OR TAKEN OUT THE DECK.
I KNOW IN LOS ANGELES IT THAT WAY, MORE PEOPLE PLAY PAN 9 THAN THEY DO BLACK JACK IN LOS ANGLES,
SOME CASINO U CAN LOSE WITH BLACK JACK 21,
I DONT LIKE LOS ANGELES CASINO, MAINLY CAUSE PEOPLE , GET MAD IF U BET AGAINST THEM
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| Posted by: king888 at May 27, 2002, 5:16 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Yeah
I never really understood why the many ersions of baccarat was so popular until I tried it my self. Its ery simple, usually have a ery low house edge and is often ery fast. I still don’t see how anyone can beat this game without cheating. The surveillance are tight and according to rumours a lot of collusion between customers and staff resulted in big losses to some casinos. On the other hand I also get the impression that baccarat is a favourite among many of the biggest whales especially Asians. Trustworthy stories tell that some are well ahead after playing this game for a long time. Anyway Its no doubt that it’s a perfect game for true gamblers looking for fast action.
The half pay on bankers 6 instead of commission will force the smart player to change his strategy and only bet banker. The game will be faster and everybody like that.
I never had an opportunity to sit down at a Chemin de Fer table and are unsure about the exact rules. But what I understand the banker... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 27, 2002, 5:01 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Pan 9 is not baccarat. In Pan 9, each player gets his own hand and is not bound by set rules as to whether or not they wish to take a card. They play against one hand designated as the dealer (or banker).
Also, 7s-10s are taken out of the deck.
------------------
Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information
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| Posted by: vickinz at May 27, 2002, 1:38 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Halfpay on 6 in baccy certainly saves on time (so more action and casino gains both ways?) but some big players who bet $1-2000 most hands hate it. They could play at boutique casino or VIP upstairs where commission continues. But only 1-2 tables there, whereas downstairs there are 6 to choose from so more likely to strike a better shoe. They've also increased minimums from $10 to $l5 downstairs.
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| Posted by: caruso at May 27, 2002, 12:55 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Few months ago commission stopped, but everytime it was a banker's 6 total, it was half-pay only.
That's interesting - they're trying this out in the UK, too. It actually makes the bank bet substantially worse than the player one. Three times as bad as Blackjack; forget it!
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| Posted by: vickinz at May 26, 2002, 5:13 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
I forgot this comment made to me, by the head of a large surveillance team. He said that he respected (sorry, admired was wrong) professional gamblers because it was so hard, requiring a lot of discipline day in and day out, not an easy way to make money at all as was commonly thought! (Not made up after I posted above...just remembered it!)
Joey: I think Damian said it was called Pan9 too?
Yes, the belief is that banker is supposed to win more often than player; hence the commission usually charged for bank win. Few months ago commission stopped, but everytime it was a banker's 6 total, it was half-pay only. Hell, it's awful cos it's always my bigger bets ($300 - 500) which seems to end up with a damn 6; and I only occasionally bet that big LOL!
Sometimes new players expect to win just because they keep betting on banker and feel cheated when they don't. However, it can be likely that it's a player-predominant shoe. As mentioned, there can be strong trends from shoe to shoe.<... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at May 26, 2002, 4:47 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Hey,a friend of mine used to bang on about about one of his friends who used to smack a Casino in Greece of all places playing something called "Punto Banco".
3 bets and you don't have to do much is all i remember.It was a long time ago.I was'nt being ignorant..
It has just dawned upon me..Punto Banco is Baccarat..Am i right Vick?
I remember my mate saying his mate used to moan because he could'nt find Punto Banco for small enough stakes when he went to the USA.I say he had a touch otherwise he'd have done his spending money quick time..
I've played baccarat online a few times.I bet banker non stop.
All i've ever done is lose,lose,lose.
How does one win at this game?
Relevant to the thread.Yes,i can afford not to play..
[This message has been edited by joeyl (edited 05-26-2002).]
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| Posted by: vickinz at May 26, 2002, 4:21 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
King: I think those who haven't isited land casinos much, but who have read a lot of books, tend to think card counting is gonna be more of a "sure winner" on land than it actually is.
From what I've read, the golden age when well organised teams would win heaps is over cos casinos have taken counteractive measures. Son thought he was gonna make a fortune (at weekends) when the casino came to town, so mastered card counting with all the permutations, being mathematical, disciplined, good at music so has trained sequential memory which made it easy etc, but he found it hard to win cos he wasn't ery lucky at blackjack, despite being a BS purist. Admittedly he had busy job and . limited resources having just completed university not long before. He also trained as a dealer and worked briefly at weekends because he wanted to see it from the other side. In his time dealing, he seldom had winners at his table. He now sticks to land craps at which he wins mainly.
Re baccarat: I know... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at May 26, 2002, 4:10 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
The online poker rooms give out bonuses. I just did a google search and found two with $50 sign up bonuses and one with a 10% bonus on deposits during the WSOP on the first page of results.
Maybe they don't have their email marketing up and running yet for spamming players, but don't kid yourself that they're not in the Bonus Business.
I don't see them as having such a significantly different business model than the casinos that they have different market pressures. They stil are ulnerable to player mistrust, bizarre political decisions, and the Great Credit Card Meltdown.
In fact, running a good poker room and detecting collusion is probably more difficult than generating one on one casino results from a software perspective.
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| Posted by: king888 at May 26, 2002, 3:45 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
The Original Mary
“I don't see why the poker software can be assumed to have not found a way to add to the rake income yet. They can be doing just fine with house players getting the good cards a percentage of the time. “
Its possible, but in that case why don’t they offer good bonuses to attract more players so they can steal more money?
Fair and honest or not, I still wonder why they don’t put more money in bonuses? I get hundreds of e-mails from casinos every week which I never asked for. I get ery few e-mails from a poker sites even though I want them and they never or ery seldom contain any bonuses or other promotions. Every time I play there, there are a hell of a lot players inside. The amount of isitors at the biggest online casinos are often outnumbered by 10 times or more. Sometimes even up to 50 times. Offcourse many of these are play-for-fun isitors but there is no doubt in this segments future.
Let's turn the question around: which online poker rooms are ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: king888 at May 26, 2002, 3:18 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
two_card
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Vickinz
Sounds like you have your fleets on the ground. I am dead sure about the roulette, but I can not see how it would be possible to beat the house in baccarat. Counting the cards in baccarat will extremely seldom give you an edge.
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at May 26, 2002, 3:10 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
I don't see why the poker software can be assumed to have not found a way to add to the rake income yet.
They can be doing just fine with house players getting the good cards a percentage of the time.
Let's turn the question around: which online poker rooms are licensed? Anywhere?
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| Posted by: king888 at May 26, 2002, 3:08 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
The Original Mary
“There's a shortage of experinced casino personnel in the land industry right now. Sorry, King888, you need to do more homework.”
So they will accept every sharp counter to walk away with 100k a year just because of lack personal. At the same time they will be locking-out blue-haired ladies having long streaks of luck at their slots.
“If the rake is enough, there's no incentive for an online operation to fiddle the software. What worries me about online poker is what about collusion between players?”
Well, the house edge will be enough for the online casinos. Is it?
Collusion is a real problem but there are many ways to handle it. Some operators are building a data-base of every players profile and if he makes strange raises or other deviation from style some alarm will sound and a personal review will be done. Some even claim having personal live monitoring the games. In fact this makes it more secure than playing in real where after foldi... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: king888 at May 26, 2002, 2:56 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
The Original Mary
“There's a shortage of experinced casino personnel in the land industry right now. Sorry, King888, you need to do more homework.”
So they will accept every sharp counter to walk away with 100k a year just because of lack personal. At the same time they will be locking-out blue-haired ladies having long streaks of luck at their slots.
“If the rake is enough, there's no incentive for an online operation to fiddle the software. What worries me about online poker is what about collusion between players?”
Well, the house edge will be enough for the online casinos. Is it?
Collusion is a real problem but there are many ways to handle it. Some operators are building a data-base of every players profile and if he makes strange raises or other deviation from style some alarm will sound and a personal review will be done. Some even claim having personal live monitoring the games. In fact this makes it more secure than playing in real where after foldi... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vickinz at May 26, 2002, 2:19 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
At my local casino the number of blackjack cardcounters, who thought they could make a living when it opened 6.5 years ago, has now dwindled to just a handful, which tells me something. One who has played almost daily for the whole time is ahead, but makes only a modest sum annually.
Another, with inherited wealth, sometimes loses $2-500,000 in a month, just as he might win that much as well. The casino is unable to ban him, but they make it tougher for him by shuffling every few hands.
The most successful longtime pros seem to have made their big bucks at roulette or baccarat.
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at May 26, 2002, 1:59 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Nevada isn't the world. Neither is the USA.
California is a big new realm of casinos with inept management, and the counters and other advantage players are undoubtedly there. In fact, California is now the number one market in the USA in terms of gambling revenue. Bigger than Atlantic City. Bigger than Nevada. With no state-wide gaming commission overseeing all that action.
There's a shortage of experinced casino personnel in the land industry right now. Sorry, King888, you need to do more homework.
If the rake is enough, there's no incentive for an online operation to fiddle the software. What worries me about online poker is what about collusion between players?
Or, for having house players who get the best hands, like in the old days?
I have the same concerns about the Be The Dealer software. What if there are house dealers who get a better outcome when dealing, against players working on quualifying to be dealers?
For some operators, house edg... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: king888 at May 26, 2002, 1:41 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
zrapture
I know. I never question the theory. The thing is that the casino would never let you sit there. I worked this math before and what a can recall the few times having an edge in a 6 deck BJ it would never be worth much. My conclusion is build on math, facts and information from authorities in gambling. Off course I can not for sure exclude every possibility there might be some one out there making a living on it. In that case they must have a hell of a tough time finding new places and we are not talking about a luxury life with incomes suggested by some signatures. That’s is just fairytales. As we all know many are claiming it and off course a success story from someone coming home sounds better than telling he lost it all ending up in the skid-row. I put this card counting thing on the shelf years ago and I can not imagine that that circumstances would have developed to be more favourable today. Many people are experts in gambling. My local casino is full of them and most of them are ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dann at May 26, 2002, 1:24 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by king888:
Dirk_Dangerous
... Anybody knows were to get the best promotion when playing poker? Poker sites are ery restrictive with their bonuses and promotions. I wonder why? I don’t know if I dare say this, but a poker-software can not cheat their players in the same way as a casino, Their rake-structure must be followed and everybody would see if some cents ery stolen from the pot.
Intriguing and interesting...
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| Posted by: zrapture at May 26, 2002, 1:09 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
King, it's not just single deck games that are beatable. Six-deck games can be beaten also. Not to mention the two deck games.
I'm not a card counter and have no desire to be. I was in Biloxi last month and saw many beatable games. However, sitting in a casino all day long just doesn't excite me, even for 100k/year. I played at a 2 deck game for a little that was extremely beatable. If I was told that I could play that game for two years without worry of being asked to leave. I would be retired after those two years were over. I'd be there 9am everyday when only a few players were playing and play until about 5pm, normal working hours.
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| Posted by: king888 at May 26, 2002, 12:41 pm | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Dirk_Dangerous
This is really funny. I knew from the beginning that my statement would cause reactions. Professional card counting was a reality but has become a myth many years ago. Today the casinos are making billion of dollars of keeping it alive. Authors of books is still selling ery good and most importantly many players have wonderful time developing their techniques. Its not all a waste because it is holding the house edge down and every time you have an edge and the opportunity to bet tough it feels warm inside. Playing BJ is a ery stimulating hobby and this makes it even more interesting. On the other hand all fact show that it is irtually impossible to make a living out of this. Many wants to claim the opposite but usually only present loose talk to back up their statement. There is no reason for me to try convince anyone either, lets be friends and recognise the counters and welcome them the regular work force.
To be a professional might be a dream that every gambler somet... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dirk_Dangerous at May 26, 2002, 11:42 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
Any minimum salary work would give a more reliable income compared to card counting on BJ.
King, nothing personal, but you are a ery ignorant man when it comes to gambling issues. You should stop with your ranting before you embarrass yourself further.
Your comments regarding card counters just show how utterly ignorant you truly are. The fact is, there are many card counters who make well into 6 figures year in and year out. It isn’t easy, and it’s a lifestyle only a few would choose, but the money is real.
Just because you don’t believe so, doesn’t make it untrue. But I’m not here to convince you of anything. But I do want other readers of this site to know that you are posting information that is just flat out wrong.
Your words shouldn’t be trusted because you have no idea what you’re talking about.
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| Posted by: king888 at May 26, 2002, 11:15 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Zrapture
Please come on!
We all heard those stories. I never said there was no way of beating the casinos. Most of them are based on cheating but the few others actually working will not be found in any books. Using the argument that many books covers the subject is a ery bad. On the contrary this indicate or even prove the opposite.
In theory its ery well known that a single deck BJ can be beaten ery easily. The first pioneers in this business are said to made fortunes on it and I truly believe that. Today there is not a single pitboss or even a croupier not aware of this possibility. To ever make any profit of any kind you must first find a casino dealing a single deck BJ and be lucky enough meeting a croupier at her first day at work which of a coincidence is supervised by a totally retarded pitboss and be lucky enough that some other chef wont be looking for a second in your direction. On top of this that they wont be using a reshuffle of the deck as standard procedure whe... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at May 26, 2002, 10:21 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Interesting topic.
*You'll be hard pressed to find ideo poker of over 100% payback in dollars or higher in Nevada these days. Too many smart players.
*There are professional bj players in the land industry.
*A lot of online gaming companies are hurting badly, not because of smart players but because of the Great Credit Card Meltdown. Since they can't do anything about the credit card problem, they are doing whatever they can to cut expenses.
*Casinos are scared of winners they do not know. They certainly dislike consistent winners. Land casinos will ban consistent winners, even winners at slot machines, these days.
*Casinos love winners they know will come back and give it back, such as whales or tracked players.
*It's really stupid of casino investors or operators to come onto a board and insult winning players and "bonus abusers". You are forgetting that all the "real gamblers" you are courting want to be or identify themselves... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: zrapture at May 26, 2002, 9:54 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Agree with DonG in the above post. The king just showed his lack of knowledge with the statement about pro gamblers. I've met people who gave up 85k/year jobs to become a pro land based gambler. They don't regret the decision either. There are reason why so many books have been written to beat casinos, because you can. Although a small percentage actually suceed. Why do you think pitbosses watch players actions so closely? And are so paranoid of counters?
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| Posted by: Dr_Bonus_Love at May 26, 2002, 9:49 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
King888, it sounds to me like you ain't gettin' no love.
Do you prefer men, women or both? Tell me, and I'll point you in the right direction for serious lovin'
Remember, Dr. Bonus Love always prescripes love for your ailments.
If you can't get good lovin' then a fat, juicy is the next best thing. Remember Dr. Bonus Love told you first.
Dr. Bonus Love
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| Posted by: DONGAMBLER at May 26, 2002, 8:35 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
" There are no such thing as pro BJ players. They only exists in a gamblers world of dreams. Even the card counting business are long gone."
king888... you have just proved you really know nothing about the world of gambling.. time for you to get lost and quit spamming your Boss Casinos around here.
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| Posted by: king888 at May 26, 2002, 8:24 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
caruso
Now you are showing some lack of knowledge. There are no such thing as pro BJ players. They only exists in a gamblers world of dreams. Even the card counting business are long gone. In theory its possible to make good money out of this edge but ery few will ever try it and even fewer will succeed. This is not because of logical reasons but just a fact known from results of empiric research that some casinos are fully aware of.
If you ever studied the PWC reports on the online casinos you would have noticed that www.kisscasino.com always are ery close to 100% and many months even just over 100%. They have so far been the only one offering this ery favourable rules on BJ. This casinos total turnover is ery low and therefore payback percentage sometimes reaches over 100%. Clearly are some individuals doing some fine gambling here, but the total cost for these winners are of course taken as expenses in the research and marketing account. This “loss” is far more cheap than substantia... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at May 26, 2002, 7:09 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
The “new” Boss Media single deck BJ gives the player an edge of 0.10% with basic strategy and at least an additional 0.03% with more advanced models. Trustable operation which offers gambling in an environment excluding any doubt in fairness of the games.
Total, massive bullsh*t.
Boss Media Single Deck: $500 max per hand? 0.13% player edge? About 6 hands per minute?
Random my backside; do the sums; there's no way they could afford to offer this game in these circumstances - they'd go bankrupt in one week flat. Not from the small-time gamblers who'd misplay and lose, but from the pros who'd hit hard and sluaghter them. And yes, I've tried the game, too, so I'm speaking from experience.
And Boss are currently about to go belly-up, and you're not trying to drum up business? Laughable.
I'm surprised this spam got any replies; bye, bye Boss - nice knowing you; won't miss you.
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| Posted by: two_card at May 26, 2002, 6:05 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
"It is nieve to think ANY casino, online or B&M, would offer an ongoing random and fair game where basic strategy would net a PLAYER advantage (without bonuses)."
Well - here is "nieve":
Ever hear of full pay deuces - all over Neveda and cash payback on those games. A local (midwest USA) B$M casino has full pay double bonus and a 1% cash payback.
"Anyone claiming its possible is either stupid, foolish, or spamming"
Care to back up this statement with a sizeable wager that 100%+ games have existed for years ??
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| Posted by: nvaughan3 at May 26, 2002, 5:53 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
It is nieve to think ANY casino, online or B&M, would offer an ongoing random and fair game where basic strategy would net a PLAYER advantage (without bonuses).
Anyone claiming its possible is either stupid, foolish, or spamming.
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| Posted by: beat_them_silly at May 26, 2002, 5:10 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
King you are right
These moronic bonus beaters are being systematically locked out , the industry is reaching a level where the entry of inexperienced operators is lowering due to the higher entry levels and therefore experienced operators will just close these idots off one by one!!
This is comical to watch them being shut out!
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| Posted by: king888 at May 26, 2002, 4:48 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
Mrracetrack
When reading the posts in this forum one easily can get the idea that far more than 1% of the gamblers are using my criteria list up side down when choosing where to gamble or is it just hard core bonus hunters that don't give a damn about those things I see as important. Frequently I read about people complaining about mistrust against the fairness in SW and the licenses operations, unpaid winnings or other disproportion in money matters. Every time I ask my self -Why did this person ever deposit money at this casino when there were every reasons in the book to doubt its fairness? Or in some cases even worse –Why the hell did this person go back or did not stop playing this SWP/operator? I suspect the greedy hunt for bonuses sometimes makes players totally lose their judgement. Just a theory, but why not ask a true bonus hunter/abuser when getting the chance. Some day soon it might be too late to comfront any specimen of this endangered species.
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| Posted by: Mrracetrack at May 26, 2002, 3:43 am | | Topic: Can you afford not to play? Forum: Winner Online |
King888,
What you have listed is what 99%
of on line gamblers look for.
(I personally would flip #3 & #4)
I don't understand why you feel
you're in a "minority" with those
priorities you listed.
You did neglect to state why you
are so interested in the betting
habits of DonGambler.
What you posted would have no
bearing on anyone else's type
of play.
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