| Posted by: joeyl at May 28, 2002, 8:48 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Cut and pasting my own words.What is my world coming to?
I put....I don't want a Portal.I don't want to work in a casino,or own one.
Mary,i officially take it back..I think i'll open my own Portal.If only to get a look in the Private WGPA forum,place,threads,oh-whatever it's called.
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at May 28, 2002, 1:17 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
1.The complaints that are posted are only those where the OPA has been waiting for a response from the casino for some time...we actually get many, many more complaints that are resolved quickly after contacting the casino.
It's to goose casinos that aren't taking advantage of the opportunity we give them to tell their side of the story.
2."Officer, I went to the worst part of town and left a pile of gold bullion on the sidewalk, now it's gone."
The OPA doesn't investigate so much as mediate. The casinos on the "Not Recommended" list won't mediate. To accept complaints is an utter waste of time better spent elsewhere, and gives players false hope.
If they make an offer to mediate at a later date, we'll take them up on it; sometimes also we'll take a group dispute against a "Not Recommended" site so that we can escalate it to the software provider, for research purposes, or to refute claims of "We've never had a complaint.".
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| Posted by: mustang at May 28, 2002, 12:39 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Thank you for the kind words ickinz. I think it is a great idea. I wish someone would run with it. That is my hopes.
Mary...I think you are right. Player co-ops could be small groups or large groups, small players or big players, Players from the US or players from Zambia...whatever.
I am not really trying to knock the OPA. If they feel that they are doing the right thing that is fine. If they feel they have to accept money from casinos then that is fine too. I just think that as long as an "authority", whoever it is, accepts funds from anyone they become indebted to them.
I have served as a council member for the town I live in. I had nothing to personally gain from serving, other than the normal things like having a good place to live, good streets, etc. I knew that when a decision had to be made that I didn't have to think twice. I didn't have to think...am I indebted to this person or this company or this organization...
That is all I am saying...it woul... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vickinz at May 24, 2002, 6:02 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
I think most of the casinos I play at already have my ID! But "your baby" saving me all those ID hassles/costs over the past l8 months would certainly have had great appeal!
Particularly with new casinos or groups, your members should reap the benefits from casinos not having to pay out continuing affiliate fees if joining up en masse.
I think you will end up with a lot of wiser players, and only time will tell whether those casinos you link up with, will like that the group as a whole will not be regular losers.
I wish you well in your endeavours.
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| Posted by: joeyl at May 24, 2002, 5:33 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Oh i see Mary.Joeyl is useless.Take no notice.
Your astuteness failed you there.Joeyl would love to work amongst all this.
I don't want a Portal.I don't want to work in a casino,or own one.
I like the people thing.It's like a community all unto itself it is.I sit here all night sometimes,stuck to my chair,just trying to take it all in.Only the sunrise tells me when it's bedtime.
Nothing has confused me like all this ever.I don't know whether to run,hide or just plain dive in.
Without these message boards,i think i'd be gone already.
The knowledge people like you,Spear,Dr Ho Casino Manager,Grantt,Mr Racetrack,Jet,the Meister,CPA,Nipple-hey-zuess on searches,Mustang of late,HKGambler amongst many,many others impart,really twists my cap.
What else can i say?
[This message has been edited by joeyl (edited 05-24-2002).]
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at May 24, 2002, 11:47 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Joeyl, I need to throw in more smilies. I know your're not looking for work in the industry and that you're an upfront poster. Was just being funny.
Don't change a thing, darlin'.
Damian, don't you change neither. You're absolutely right that one would think that all casinos should treat all their steady players well--at a presentation in Toronto, it was pointed out that it costs five times as much to get a new player as to retain an old one. Player service and payment processing are at crisis points in the industry as a whole.
The OPA did make a compromise in moving to being industry-funded. Player-funded was not enough to accomplish the work we were doing. Mustang's plans are quite economical and could make a template for several such player cooperatives,since there will be some regional differences. I'm all for players organizing, sharing info, forming groups, go for it.
Things should also improve as the UK gets involved with licensing, for everybody except player... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: damiandunlap at May 24, 2002, 10:32 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
mustang, I dont play at one casino, i play at a few, but i dont go looking for bonus,
dog, have u played playtec?
what about winnerplaygound?
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| Posted by: joeyl at May 24, 2002, 10:22 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Joey, you are never going to get employment in this industry if you persist in being so...undiplomatic.
Astute as always Mary.. I never mentioned employment anywhere.
Undiplomatic? I don't know how to achieve this without not posting anymore.
I rub people up the wrong way everywhere i go.. No-one i've ever annoyed can ever put thier finger on exactly what it is i do wrong..
I take it you are not referring to this thread alone?
Is it what i say,or the way i say it or is it maybe something completely different?I try to be honest with everyone,even when i could say nothing and hide or just plain lie.Is it that possibly?
Help me here please.
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| Posted by: mustang at May 24, 2002, 9:52 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Damian...man, I love ya and I hate ya.
I love your honesty...hate your negativity.
You don't have to join anything. You can keep on your current path...go it alone...it is your choice.
You are contradicting yourself: "i dont have no loyalty to one casino, i am trying to win.
but when i do find a good casino, i play there a alot."
Playing at a good casino a lot is "player loyalty".
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| Posted by: damiandunlap at May 24, 2002, 9:31 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
wow, so we have to join a group, to get fair play, that bull shxxt.
i dont like the fact,if i use paypal, why do u need to see my id, when paypal erily my info, yes i know i said this before, but i will say it again, it bull shxxt.
i dont even fund my paypal with credit card, so why do the casino , need to see all my personal info,
if the casino dont have money , to pay people they need to close, i dont have no loyalty to one casino, i am trying to win.
but when i do find a good casino, i play there a alot.
learn how to make $10,000.00 isit my site http://greedyways.tripod.com
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| Posted by: mustang at May 24, 2002, 8:58 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
ickinz...I understand your concern about bureaucracy. I don't think it has to be that way. Right now if you sign up at your average casino you might have to submit your personal data/documentation at every casino. This would be the same thing but it would only happen once. As soon as you were certified then you wouldn't have to re-submit the info to the casino.
I am not talking about despute resolution. No advertising. I don't think the OPA should be accepting advertising. It clouds the decision process. I can't see that we would want to provide any information about the casinos. No reviews, no blacklists.
There will be screening...but it will be from person to person negotiations between the organization and the casino. If the association could build a close relationship with a select few casinos from the major software brands it would be ery powerful. The casinos would have to take care of the "preferred players" or the entire group might jump ship and go somewhere else. | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: tedm at May 23, 2002, 10:24 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
It sounds good in theory but it will take a lot of work to keep it going.
As we know all too well, circumstances can change. Both for casinos and players.
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| Posted by: Jetset at May 23, 2002, 10:17 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Mustang's concept of a "win-win" situation is one that has been previously espoused (unfortunately to ridicule from some here)but I still believe it to be do-able.
The "old" OPA special offers for members project faltered as Mary says on the plethora of freebie offers out there anyway, and I know of several casino operators who were underwhelmed by the thin response from OPA members to their "OPA Specials"
So the answer is to not only find quality casinos and serious, regular players but to be able to offer that something special that will persuade players to get involved, because clearly numbers are important here.
The appalling customer and financial servicing encountered at far too many casinos could be the missing ingredient - ie provide the "Gold Star" treatment to which Powder Horn refers and which players should in any case be receiving.
But structuring more attractive offers than are already available to all could be di... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at May 23, 2002, 9:32 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Joey, you are never going to get employment in this industry if you persist in being so...undiplomatic.
Let us just say that players with a history of avid play that is not content with a small win will be considered desirable patrons...
but we are not going to call it "The Big Fat Losers Club", "Suckers R Us", or "Bonus Abused" just yet.
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| Posted by: joeyl at May 23, 2002, 5:57 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
At the risk of being called a battered wife,i will endeavour to not be ultra-negative..
I put it to you Mustang,Powder Horn,Mary.This congregation of players had better be losers in the Casino's overall,otherwise the players will sooner or later find themselves out on thier ear.
If i am wrong,then stick it to me good and proper.
I have pondered this for a while.I cannot see a way round this..
On the up-note.If the congregation loses enough overall,the casino's will embrace you all with open arms.
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at May 23, 2002, 5:26 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
When the Online Players Association was founded, players paid $25 to be members and in return received casino promotions for OPA members only. Both players and casinos as members agreed to a code of conduct; players as well as casinos found to iolate it were expelled.
As time went on, players' biggest demand of the OPA was the dispute resolution services. There were already so many bonus offers out there that the OPA member bonuses weren't that impressive.
Now, the OPA made no attempt to screen players for creditworthiness, so your idea has much more appeal to the casinos. Also, since credit cards are not used as much, players must have the money in hand (or in checking account!) to make their deposits these days as opposed to credit. I think that makes it harder for casinos to get deposits, so again, your pool of prescreened gamblers is more aluable to casinos than formerly.
Powderhorn has a ery workable model there, I'm impressed. You'll have to decide if you want to have c... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vickinz at May 23, 2002, 3:24 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
You say: "The rest of the people here just want to gripe and complain...bunch of "victims".
It's good that you are trying to do something positive. But aren't you being a bit hard on those who don't jump at the chance. My reason for lack of interest is that it seems too bureaucratic already!
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| Posted by: mustang at May 23, 2002, 12:12 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Great thoughts PH!!!
I am looking forward to the update.
As I mentioned before the key to success is come up with a win-win plan...
To get this plan developed I need to know what the isitors to this site think the major issues facing online casino operators and players...I am going to start a new post to try to get some input on this...
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| Posted by: Powder horn at May 23, 2002, 11:46 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
I will just make a brief statement for now and update later on.
unfortunatly the casinos will have to be the judge of who is prefered and who is not (based on our associations promises and guide lines).But over time ,as more players make the upgraded certified lists more casinos will be interested.As a result good service and outstanding promotions will develop from the casinos side. Finally many more players will want to give this thing a try to simply take advantage of these special promotions and hopefully gold star service. The road will be ery rough at first ,since there will be alot of players who will not make the list and will proably feel cheated.But over time a strong list of association players will emerge and alot of players will then try to conform to its reasonable guide lines. Also there will be alot of bugs to work out,but all we need to start is just a few basic guidelines at winner online and a crude list could be stared. this project will probably start off slow then accelerate as... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mustang at May 23, 2002, 11:00 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Good comments PH...
I agree that we could gain offers for the "union"...I perfer to call it an association or cooperative...but we have to avoid the stigma of being "bonus hunters".
The idea is to have this organization solve the common problems that players are faced with...bad service, too much red tape and the risk that you are not going to be paid/slow pay and/or you will be paid and then locked.
For it to work it would have to be a "win - win" situation.
We would have to also solve the casino's problem of...bonus hunters, chargebacks, cc fraud, lack of player loyalty.
Good points though.
Let me ask you this...my only concern about this new "association" would be who keep the records and certify the players? Would players trust an organization enough to divulge their personal data?
As I mentioned in a previous email players would have to swear to follow the bylaws of the organization.
I re... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Powder horn at May 23, 2002, 10:49 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
I think there is a good chance that a certified players union could work. The union would not only increase player loyalty but reduce charge backs and credit card fraud.Further more as the union gians in good reputation and buisness for the casinos, the casinos themselves will increase promotions to known certified players.I do not think a union will address the problem of newbie players,since newbies are probably not aware of some of these online gambling issues in the first place.
We might start like this;
1)people who think they fit the profile of a certified player sign up on some web page.
2)The list of players is sent to X number of casinos with a general statement about the advantage of our union.
3)Hopefully the casinos send some kind of offer to these players.I dont see why not.
4)The players that accept the offer plays, and the casino evaluates there play for what we cliam to be certified.
5)Now the casino will have to contact the cooperative and let them know if a play... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mustang at May 23, 2002, 8:58 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
I will address your concerns:
The player list would not be available to everyone. What would essentially happen is that we would have everyone sign up...tell us their account ID...then we would send then casino the list of certified account numbers.
We don't have to have a large list of players for it to be worth it to the casinos. We also don't have to cover all the casinos or even cover them fast. If every depositing player costs them $500 then a list of 100 players would save them $5,000 just to attain the player.
I don't see why it would increase the casino hoping. The idea is to find good players a few good places to gamble where they know that they will be treated good, get good odds, fair games, not be locked, not be treated like a bonus abuser, have their questions answered fast, get their withdrawals without having to jump through hoops or not get their money at all.
If you have all of this then why jump around from one casino to another? Change for the sake ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Powder horn at May 22, 2002, 11:15 am | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
"It can't be a situation where we hop from one casino to the next though. It would have to be a guaranteed number of customers and deposits...in turn the casino would put these players on a "preferred player" list that would get special treatment from the casino."
This is a great idea, and in one form or another will probably happpen.But I am affriad that just about every casino out there will be going after the players on the prefered player list.there simply wont be enough players to cover all the casinos at once or at least within a short time frame. I feel the casinos will not be willing to wiat there turn for the cooperative to send them prefered players,Especially after the casino's have piad to see the list.
Why hell, that cooperative would have us all hopping around like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest!!!
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| Posted by: mustang at May 21, 2002, 12:48 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
They don't even have to be whales. I am not talking about a high rollers club or anything.
I am talking about average players that will go through a certification process.
The cooperative could then promise the casino "$X" in deposits a month or for some specified period of time from qualified players.
Then the cooperative could go to the next casino and do the same thing.
It can't be a situation where we hop from one casino to the next though. It would have to be a guaranteed number of customers and deposits...in turn the casino would put these players on a "preferred player" list that would get special treatment from the casino.
The key would be that the cooperative would have to obtain a lot of data on its players to insure that there were no fraudsters...one rotten apple could ruin the whole bunch...
The advantage to the player is that the casino would accept the player as being certified and the player wouldn't have to send i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: tedm at May 21, 2002, 12:41 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
I am working on this actually.
You are right. Casinos would kill for this business. Maybe not even 500. Hell, 20 whales is more than most online casinos see.
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| Posted by: mustang at May 21, 2002, 12:28 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
Hey ladies and gentlemen,
I am trying to answer my own question about what we can do...
Has anyone ever attempted to form a player's cooperative or something? Have a true players organization that would act as a whole. The cooperative would investigate its members and then negotiate terms, bonuses, etc with casinos.
If I was a casino owner and someone came to me and said, "I have 1000 prequalified, investigated, certified gamblers that have sworn an oath to abide by the cooperatives rules...that we can deliver to your casino if we get "X" and if your casino delivers superior service, fast withdrawal, etc..." I would die to get hold of those players. Wouldn't you? I have heard that it costs a casino an average of $500 to acquire a depositing player. What would 1000 certified gamblers be worth to a casino?
Could that happen?
It seams like a perfect solution for good, honest players that would never dream of doing anthing illegal or immoral, etc.<... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mustang at May 21, 2002, 12:26 pm | | Topic: I need some input... Forum: Winner Online |
For online gambling to succeed there has to be casinos that are financially strong. Otherwise there is no security for the players' deposits/withdrawals.
Right now we have a number of market conditions that are causing casinos to essentially chase their tails. Since my background is in business I try to look at it from the business side of things.
You can never have a good product for the player (consumer) that isn't also profitable for the casino (manufacturer/developer). If casinos are not profitable then you see problems like we see in this board every day.
Casinos problems:
1. Casinos need newbie players
2. Casinos need player loyalty
3. Casinos have problems with cc fraud/chargebacks/abuse, etc
4. Casinos have a lot of banks that refuse cc transactions
Their solutions are to:
1. Offer big deposit/sign-up bonuses
2. More bonuses
3. Outrageous play through requirements, mounds of documentation including a blood sample to get your withdra... | | Read Entire Entry |
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