| Posted by: Woody00 at June 25, 2003, 6:46 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Thanks for the update caruso. I missed this thread due to acation.
I played on a Viper download I made recently and watched it play over 200 hands with no problem. I have left it to play by itself, while fixing coffee, but will certainly monitor it in future.
Anyone have problems on downloads made after June 1?
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 5, 2003, 7:26 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
Got2Bet; I am getting worried. Your responses here makes me think you are just a bit TOO involved with MGS...
I thought I stated somewhere else that I do not have any relationship to MGS other than being an affiliate of some of their operators.
Quote:
* The bug is probably NOT fixed since players have experienced it long after MGS claimed it was fixed.
Now I don't know when the claim was made other than when Jetset saying that MGS claimed to have fixed the bug - however, it occurs to me that the autoplay would be on the CLIENT side of things - and thus any player who is or claims to be affected should download updated software. I can't see how the autoplay functions would be on the server side of things, especially because it would slow things down dramatically.
Quote:
* The bug is/was in BOTH software ersions despite MGS claiming it was only in one.
Well, I think it was you who said it was Odin (correct me if... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KX at May 4, 2003, 3:01 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
This is the point I already made earlier in this thread.
They're not trying to cheat. It's a bug. It's been fixed. End of story unless someone else has another bug or another claim which cannot be addressed, or someone has something that needs to be addressed, whatever.
No company is stupid enough to deliberately write something like that.
Got2Bet; I am getting worried. Your responses here makes me think you are just a bit TOO involved with MGS...
As I've stated before, I do not belive they made it deliberately either. The facts still stands however, they refuse to deal with it!
* The bug is probably NOT fixed since players have experienced it long after MGS claimed it was fixed.
* The bug is/was in BOTH software ersions despite MGS claiming it was only in one.
* It seems no players have been compensated for the stolen money.
* Lots of thousands must have been stolen, money that MGS know they stole but won't give back.
... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at May 3, 2003, 10:39 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
That's what I have trouble understanding (the idea, not your explanation). They go through all the trouble to provide a fair game, operate honestly but then go and throw this at the players. I just don't get it. What are they thinking?
This is the point I already made earlier in this thread.
They're not trying to cheat. It's a bug. It's been fixed. End of story unless someone else has another bug or another claim which cannot be addressed, or someone has something that needs to be addressed, whatever.
No company is stupid enough to deliberately write something like that.
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| Posted by: Mr J at May 3, 2003, 1:55 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by The Original Mary:
If the casino is going to cheat, cheat from the dealer's side, not by giving the player an incompetent proxy.
That's what I have trouble understanding (the idea, not your explanation). They go through all the trouble to provide a fair game, operate honestly but then go and throw this at the players. I just don't get it. What are they thinking?
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| Posted by: The Original Mary at May 2, 2003, 10:56 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Autoplay is also a way for players new to blackjack or ideo poker to improve their play at home, before going to a land casino. They've read about how the games are great, but want to play for $$$ right away and not spend a lot of time training on software or being kibitzed by a boyfriend (or girlfriend).
That's how'd I'd position it, if I were Microgaming, and it is a bit strange that they just put the new software out there without marketing guidance to orient players. Yes, it plays faster:good for the house. Yes, if it were playing 100% correctly, it demonstrates how the math works and may be reassuring: good for the house. Yes, you can eat pizza, and not goo up your keyboard.
If however it screws up the ways you've noticed, it's a player's worst nightmare and not a little bizarre. If the casino is going to cheat, cheat from the dealer's side, not by giving the player an incompetent proxy.
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| Posted by: Mr J at May 2, 2003, 10:44 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Btw, Lucky Nugget is not a FL casino.
I know, you mistunderstood. I meant it was Lucky Nugget OR a FL casino, was pretty sure it was the nugget though.
"Who's going to use an autoplay feature? Someone who doesn't want to play manually. Who doesn't want to play manually? Someone who isn't playing for entertainment."
Yes, or the true gambling addict who brings in the most money.
True. Easy to distinguish between the 2 though. The players intentions are revealed if the bet size is set at or near minimum.
"Why should they make it fair?"
Because they run a reputable operation with a aluable trademark.
I know but why make a tool that is beneficial to the enemy? However, this is MG not RTG. They know the important factors in being successful, the autoplay feature doesn't seem to follow their philosophy though (honest, fair whatever).
"I don't understand why they made it in the first place."
Increase t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KX at May 2, 2003, 7:49 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
Lucky Nugget (maybe a FL casino, not sure)
Very interesting! Lucky Nugget uses Viper software! Thus, Microgaming are wrong by saying that the bug is only in the Odin software since both you and "Devast" have apparently suffered from the bug in the Viper ersion. I wonder if the Viper ersion still carries the bugs even if you download the software NOW.
Btw, Lucky Nugget is not a FL casino.
Quote:
Have you also thought that maybe it's flawed for a reason?
Nope. There are lots of easier ways to cheat that is harder to detect.
Quote:
Who's going to use an autoplay feature? Someone who doesn't want to play manually. Who doesn't want to play manually? Someone who isn't playing for entertainment.
Yes, or the true gambling addict who brings in the most money.
Quote:
Why should they make it fair?
Because they run a reputable operation with a aluable trademark.
... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mr J at May 2, 2003, 12:01 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Was defintately Lucky Nugget. I don't feel like requesting info that's over 1 month old.
Anyone who wants to prove it, use autoplay for a couple of minutes and I'm sure a mistake will pop up. Can't believe it hit me on a hard 17...
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| Posted by: Mr J at May 2, 2003, 11:49 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
This was during march I think, at Lucky Nugget (maybe a FL casino, not sure)
Only $2 bets, didn't really affect the outcome, I won alot.
I just sent an email stating the autoplay software was faulty. No reply either.
I guess I just thought it wasn't a big deal. Play manually and I won't be affected.
Have you also thought that maybe it's flawed for a reason? Who's going to use an autoplay feature? Someone who doesn't want to play manually. Who doesn't want to play manually? Someone who isn't playing for entertainment.
Autoplay is just a BHers tool. Why should they make it fair? I don't understand why they made it in the first place.
I'm pretty sure my play records are trashed now. I'll check anyway, if I find them, I'll scan them.
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| Posted by: KX at May 2, 2003, 5:08 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Mr J; Surprised to see that you did not react more heavily against being cheated. When did the problems occur for you? At which casino did it happen? Your information can alidate or invalidate Microgamings claims about only Odin software being affected as well as the claims of the bug being fixed immediately back in January/Febrary.
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| Posted by: KX at May 2, 2003, 1:25 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Like Clayman (and perhaps others) I am not worried so much about the fact that there is a software glitch as I am about Microgaming's stance here.
If they don't care about players being cheated by this softare bug why would they care in other instances? For example, what does this tell us about what would happen if there were other problems with the software? I get the feeling that they would keep quiet if they for example found out that one of their games had a bug making it pay 90% instead of 95%...
If they would have adressed the issue openly and proposed solutions I would not have been irritated. What irritates me is that it seems like they can do whatever they feel like against their players. Even when the player brings forward 100% certain proof of something being wrong they won't compensate nor bring forward a solution.
I also want to update readers about the fact that Royal Plaza management has not responded to the e-mail I sent about this threads existence. Neither ha... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Tortex at May 2, 2003, 12:27 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset:
Clock did get off to an unfortunate start, and it is not the players' responsibility to recover their reputation. That's up to them and guys like yourself running a straight, fast paying operation in a reliable fashion. I haven't seen any beefs about Infinity in recent times, so you are presumably doing that.
In my book Clockmedia software is a lot better than it's reputation. I got my first Royal there back in November and was paid in a couple of days. Over the last couple of days I've played around 1500 hands of VP at Infinite. No Royals - but a payout of 104%.
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| Posted by: Clayman at May 1, 2003, 2:31 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset:
MGS claim they did deal directly with the player concerned when this thread came to their attention.
OK - one more comment and I'll stop ranting.
Does this mean MGS has the capability of identifying and dealing directly with a player bypassing the casino itself?
And would you know exactly what their remedy was since it might be a precedent for the few/many? other players effected?
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| Posted by: Clayman at May 1, 2003, 2:24 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by KX:
Royal Plaza decided to compensate the player with $10. The player lost $30 due to the Autoplay cheats and he also lost a lot of time communicating with Royal Plaza about the problem.
What a pathetic response from a casino. I guess they consider it a 33% cashback bonus while they pat themselves on their back for being so nice after they steal your money in the first place.
Quote: Originally Posted by KX:
No other complaints had been achieved according to Royal Plaza.
Why doesn't Micro tell us under what circumstances these bugs occur? Is it every 14 s 4? Or does it depend on what happened the prior hand. Or is it just specific cards? And how many hands are effected? It's a little hard to believe only one of their customers was effected and sad they would use that, even if true, as if it somehow diminished his complaint.
I assume the casino can tell if a hand was played in auto-mode as opposed to manually. Do we even kno... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at May 1, 2003, 1:22 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
KX, noone is underplaying this issue (I do apologise for the Infinite distraction though! That can be irritating when one is focused on a particular issue)
If there are other aggrieved players then I hope we will hear from them here to further pursue these reports, or they can contact Microgaming direct if they wish.
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| Posted by: KX at May 1, 2003, 8:19 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet:
Removed the logs from Playcheck? You do realize that the logs are only available to players for a period of 7 days...
Are you SURE about this? When you click advanced search you are free to enter any timeframe. If this doesn't work it is a ery pointless function!
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| Posted by: Clayman at May 1, 2003, 8:01 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset:
Microgaming say they were aware of a bug and that they picked it up within days of the first WOL post made here and fixed it literally immediately.
MGS claim they did deal directly with the player concerned when this thread came to their attention.
If anyone has come across a repeat of these faults recently perhaps they should inform MGS who appear keen to ensure there are no faults whatsoever in this software.
Alternatively, they seem to monitor this MB and posts could be made here.
How does this work? Hasn't this software been around for months and MGS has dealt with one player? Are they doing anything about getting the casinos to go thru the Auto logs and make it right? Wouldn't there likely be hundreds, maybe thousands, of mis-played hands? Is it even possible to know how many hands have been misplayed? It certainly could add up to alot of money in a hurry.
It really strains credulity to believe they could ever release... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KX at May 1, 2003, 5:33 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Mr J:
I too have seen glitches in the autoplay. Used it for about 20 hands, and it made 3 large mistakes. Twice, it hit a stiff against a 3-6, and once it hit a hard 17 s something (already had 5 cards to 17 as well).
Don't use the autoplay until these bugs have been cleaned. I'd say it's just an oversight from MG, just not taking the time to program it properly.
Did you contact the casino in question? Were you compensated?
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| Posted by: KX at May 1, 2003, 5:21 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Even if I do support Clockmedia and their business practices lately, PLEASE do not use this thread for that discussion.
Back to the subject:
The casino in question is Royal Plaza casino. I do not know whether it uses Odin or Viper software (do u know how to tell Jetset?). The incidents occured in the beginning of February.
The playing mistakes were:
Autoplay hit a hard 19 s 10.
Autoplay hit a hard 16 s 2, got a 3, and then hit 19 s 2.
This is what I would have expected from Royal Plaza and Microgaming respectively:
Royal Plaza:
To immediately refund the player after rewieving the play logs. Informing Microgaming and keep the player updated of the progress. Inform the player about Microgamings solution.
Microgaming:
Admit to having a software bug, fixing it and compensating the player as well as informing others here and at other boards about the problem.
This is what really happened:
Royal Plaza:
Management asked for ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at May 1, 2003, 1:06 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Gamblingboi makes a alid point in his observations on cred imo.
Lou, I asked about Sixth Sense because I seem to recall (it was awhile and I am open to correction) that last time you were here you mentioned that Infinite, which you manage might be resurrecting Sixth Sense. At the time I thought that was brave, given that so many of the original Clock casinos had closed.
Speaking personally, I like to see casino managers here dealing with issues and making a contribution from another perspective. Sometimes they get a rough ride when incidents are live but we all run that risk from time to time.
Clock did get off to an unfortunate start, and it is not the players' responsibility to recover their reputation. That's up to them and guys like yourself running a straight, fast paying operation in a reliable fashion. I haven't seen any beefs about Infinity in recent times, so you are presumably doing that.
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| Posted by: infinitelylou at April 30, 2003, 4:22 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset:
your plans for Sixth Sense's resurrection have been going. Is that still on the cards?
Why Sixth sense? Yes, we still have it albeit not online though.
Good to see you too.
Luis
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| Posted by: infinitelylou at April 30, 2003, 4:20 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by gamblinboi:
Why not the same uproar as what occured with GSS? Well, it's probably safe to say that GSS didn't have the 'cred' MG has. that's about it.
Cheers.
Thanks GB,
I am not talking about GSS though, they were always a bunch who ran their outfit with their emotions, and no thought to the what if's of life.
They got in, made money, got out.
I am talking about Clockmedia, still there, no unpaid players, ever. Yet if not for KX, Jetset, and others, I couldn't come on this board and post without a hanging.
But yet, we are still around, going on 4 years now.
Luis
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| Posted by: gamblinboi at April 30, 2003, 3:55 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
lou, it's all bout cred (credibility)... MG *has* cred. They've been around, they've made mistakes (and fixed 'em), they pay players when one of their licensees dissapears... they are a reputable force in the industry. So they will fix this.. and if they don't, then the tides will turn. And MG knows this
Why not the same uproar as what occured with GSS? Well, it's probably safe to say that GSS didn't have the 'cred' MG has. that's about it.
Cheers.
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| Posted by: infinitelylou at April 30, 2003, 2:58 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by gamblinboi:
lou, what are you, practicing to be a parrot?
I am sorry gamblingboi, I had to edit the message since I watched in horror as I clicked on submit without writing my reply.
Hehehe
Luis
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| Posted by: infinitelylou at April 30, 2003, 2:51 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet:
They're probably watching anyhow. I know they were alerted - but let me ask one question.
Something like that would be readily obvious to anyone, so why would a company put that in there knowing that they would be caught?
It's entirely possible there are bugs somewhere - after all, these are the first ever to have expert modes built in. But cheating is really a bit harsh, I would be highly incredulous if this was their intent - if there is a problem in the first place.
I remember reading where Jorge asked the same question about the Clockmedia incident and was still crucified for years on end.
I am not asking that Microgaming be crucified. I am taking notice of how the situation is handled, and hoping that I am not the only one realizing that the smaller companies cannot have this kind of thing happen without a historic trial and execution.
Microgaming though, is a ery different animal. Although I agree with you... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: jpsartre at April 30, 2003, 2:20 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
A friend of mine was playing earlier tonight at Lucky Nugget and in one hand of BJ she drew Ace, 2, Ace, Ace, 7, Ace, Ace, all of the cards in clubs, which in itself is quite incredible. However, after the last Ace, the computer never let her draw another card. The dealer just immediately starting drawing cards. While I'll admit that I can't rule out 100% that she accidentaly pushed the stand button, it certainly didn't look that way to me (she claims that she definitely didn't). It looked more like a double where the dealer starts to draw automatically right after your card is turned. Well, anyway, I'm just posting so that other players experiencing something similar knows they are not alone.
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| Posted by: joeyl at April 30, 2003, 12:30 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Am interested KX.
Sent an email about this to Fortune Lounge as they use the software.
Never asked for a reply,just gave my opinion & the link to here.
Hoped as Max was in communication you'd post more in the way of news re at some stage.
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| Posted by: Jetset at April 30, 2003, 12:30 pm | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
Microgaming say they were aware of a bug and that they picked it up within days of the first WOL post made here and fixed it literally immediately.
It was apparently found only in the Odin software ersion despite a stringent test regime and not Viper. Extensive retesting was also conducted in order to confirm that Viper was clear of this problem. MGS claim they did deal directly with the player concerned when this thread came to their attention.
If anyone has come across a repeat of these faults recently perhaps they should inform MGS who appear keen to ensure there are no faults whatsoever in this software.
Alternatively, they seem to monitor this MB and posts could be made here.
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| Posted by: bonuslover at April 30, 2003, 11:09 am | | Topic: Orbital Casino Autoplayer CHEATS!! Forum: Winner Online |
It probably is NOT a bug.
Its name is AUTOPLAY not PERFECTPLAY, it is an emulation of a average, normal player who does not know BS that well.
If the AUTOPLAY uses BS and if everyone uses AUTOPLAY, then why doesn't the casino just pay you right away (based on the theoretical yield) instead.
[This message has been edited by bonuslover (edited 04-30-2003).]
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