| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at July 17, 2003, 4:44 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Too true, Jagwars. In addition, GP did not inform the player that he could not withdraw using the same method he used to deposit! How could he not come under review under these circumstances. It was an impossible situation from the beginning.
------------------
AS
TheAPage.com
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jagwars at July 16, 2003, 6:47 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
I'd like to know why GPC didnt inform it's client about this policy when they told him he would get his bonus when they receive his $2000 Western Union deposit.
Obviously it's possible that a player might like to make a cash-out the same day if they win.
The casino should lower the limits on all types of deposits that "could" fall under this law if it is as they say.
It is the casino's responsiblity to make sure all clients conform to their host country's laws and they should be ashamed that they allowed this situation to exist.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: Director at July 16, 2003, 5:18 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
This string has been brought to the attention of the Directorate of Offshore Gaming, Antigua and Barbuda.
In reviewing the practices of the company, there appears to be need for clarification as to the proper handling of Suspicious Transaction Reports (SAR), as required under Antigua and Barbuda’s, Money Laundering Prevention Act.
In consultation with the Office of National Drug and Money Laundering Control Policy (ONDCP), it has been decided that additional regulations will be issued on this matter (current guidelines can be found here). Such a clarification is required so that both gaming operators and their clients are clear about the requirements under the law. This should ensure that there is little or no opportunity for the regulations to be misused or misinterpreted.
Universal Gaming Concepts (Global Players,) is a reputable company and has been licensed with us since 1999. During that time is has made all efforts to ensure that it is compliant with our laws. However in... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Clayman at July 16, 2003, 3:49 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by drlucky:
do you know the date on which the report was filed? It is still suspicious to me because they denied the transfer (but still left the money in the account) and notified the player, not to mention they told him his identity was not revealed, which I dont think is possible if filing a SAR. So even if they were being truthful about filing a report (and of course they could have filed one just so they could refuse the cashout), they need to be more professional as far as handling of the matter.
You think they actually have a "well-briefed Compliance Officer" on staff like they are supposed to? If they did, I hope they are in the process of hiring another one. You think any Antigua-licensed casino actually has one?
Since they are subject to penalties for 1) freezing funds without a court order 2} telling the player a report was filed and 3) probably lied about not revealing the player's identity if a report actually was filed, is the... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: drlucky at July 16, 2003, 12:30 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
do you know the date on which the report was filed? It is still suspicious to me because they denied the transfer (but still left the money in the account) and notified the player, not to mention they told him his identity was not revealed, which I dont think is possible if filing a SAR. So even if they were being truthful about filing a report (and of course they could have filed one just so they could refuse the cashout), they need to be more professional as far as handling of the matter. Nevertheless, I trust that all casinos have learned from this incident not to misuse or mishandle money laundering issues, because sa y people like those here will call them on it.
Anyway my apologies to GPC if it was premature of me to accuse them of lying here (although I am still suspicious). However, there is NO excuse for sending that advertisement!! That is the most unprofessional thing I have ever seen.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jetset at July 16, 2003, 12:10 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
In retrospect I don't think Global Player "pulled that nonsense" on giglaco, Dr Lucky.
They were acting on what they regarded (perhaps cautiously) as a "suspicious or fraudulent transaction" in terms of the Antiguan money laundering regulations. Antigua confirmed that they had submitted an SAR in that respect.
They should not have frozen the payment, that is true but in fairness that could have been an administrative error (the reporting casino is not supposed to alert the suspect - see article above)rather than a deliberately devious and self serving act.
Edited to add the following:
I have just noticed Clayman's comment regarding the seal, which may indicate that Ronald M's confirmation that an SAR had been received is erroneous. I am checking that back with Ronald M at present.
[This message has been edited by Jetset (edited 07-16-2003).]
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: drlucky at July 15, 2003, 10:34 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by gigilaco:
Yes,I have recieved $480 by wire.
I have doposit $100 yesterday.Received a 50% Summer Bonus immediately.
Cash out $140 with NETeller.I have recieved $140 five hours later with NETeller.
why would you play with these guys again after they pulled that nonsense on you before?
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at July 15, 2003, 9:00 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Sirius:
I just received an email from this casino with a 50% Summer Bonus offer. I won't be playing but this is the ineresting pic that came with it (I wonder what they sent the women):
Those scumsuckers sent that to everyone!! And I was really steaming about it too. I get more than enough of that crap from porn sites, I surely don't need it from them.
I sent them a hot email telling them that if that's the way they need to advertise to get some players, don't bother sending me anything else.
The email bounced.
------------------
AS
TheAPage.com
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: gigilaco at July 15, 2003, 8:21 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Yes,I have recieved $480 by wire.
I have doposit $100 yesterday.Received a 50% Summer Bonus immediately.
Cash out $140 with NETeller.I have recieved $140 five hours later with NETeller.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: Sirius at July 14, 2003, 9:12 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
I just received an email from this casino with a 50% Summer Bonus offer. I won't be playing but this is the ineresting pic that came with it (I wonder what they sent the women):
http://www.faircasinos.com/yvonne_2.jpg
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: Clayman at July 11, 2003, 5:51 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset:
When making such a report the casino should not reveal to the player that an SAR has been submitted. This is for the obvious reason that the first prize for everyone is a would-be terrorist or money launderer tracked and apprehended, hopefully with accomplices or principals. For this same reason the account should not be "frozen" or otherwise tampered with.
Funds involved in transactions which turn out to be money laundering are seized by Court Order obtained by the authorities.
When we were told that penalties for misuse are almost as draconian as for the laundering itself (5 years and up to a million dollars in fines) we could understand why operators take the cautious line!
"Every site licensed by Antigua and Barbuda is required to have a link through which disgruntled players can reach our site, where a complaint can be made or a check can be carried out", he said.
So what do we think? Global Playe... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at July 11, 2003, 1:21 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
MONEY LAUNDERING 'SERIOUS' FOR ANTIGUA
But player protection is important too
Last week we reported on the use of the Antigua and Barbuda anti-money laundering regulations to delay a player payment at Global Player Casino, an operation with a ery respectable history.
The concern was that less scrupulous casino owners may use these ery necessary measures as an excuse to stall on player payouts. However, having discussed the issue in some depth with Ron Maginley the Antiguan Director of Gaming this would appear highly unlikely.
Ron told us that the regulations pertaining to online gambling operations licensed by Antigua are on a par with offshore banking laws when it comes to stringency of application and penalties. Every casino company is required to have a well-briefed Compliance Officer on staff at a senior level, and the operations are required to report any suspicious or fraudulent behaviour immediately and in any case within 24 hours by way of an SAR (Suspicious A... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at July 3, 2003, 12:34 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Good suggestions regarding future use of this legislation, Dr. L.
I am a little disappointed in Global Player execs at present, and that is un fortunately fuelling my suspicions similar to those you have oiced above. These guys are giving me the impression that they are reluctant to assist us and we are now trying to deal direct with the Antiguans.
More when we have it.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: drlucky at July 1, 2003, 1:09 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset:
I doubt that this will be made available, and in fairness to Global Player they have ery few complaints on their record and have now paid Gigilaco.
but what about the extra $500 in bonus money Gigilaco earned? Why is wiring $2500 money laundering, but wiring just under $2000 ok? Yes, Gigilaco pinched GPC for $500, but he didn't break any rules and is entitled to the money. I say GPC made this whole thing up cause they were mad at this bonus hunter.
As said above, this may be an excuse used by other places in the future not to pay. If another casino wishes to assert this reason not to pay, they should supply the exact part of the code which authorizes them to freeze funds, the name of the gov't authority investigating, the contact name of the person they corresponded with, and preferably copies of communications to/from them (with personal info removed of course). If all this is provided, then such a claim would likely be fairly legitimate ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at July 1, 2003, 12:38 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
I think you mean "investigation" report?
I doubt that this will be made available, and in fairness to Global Player they have ery few complaints on their record and have now paid Gigilaco.
We are trying to follow through on the story by attempting to get more detail and fact from the Antiguans, because there is a genuine concern here that this reason for delayed payouts could be abused.
Unfortunately the Antiguan authorities do not have a great track record in responding to emails from folks like us on problem areas.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: hhcfreebie at July 1, 2003, 9:35 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Whats the report of the investigation huh? Since they delay your payment you should ask them to mail the investigation report to you with no additional cost. If they are reading this board they might as well publish the investigation report.
If I don't see a official investigation report, I'd say it's just another excuse.
Stay away from them until the report is posted.
edit for type error, how embarassing!
------------------
online gambling "watcher".
[This message has been edited by hhcfreebie (edited 07-01-2003).]
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jetset at July 1, 2003, 12:54 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Your comments on freezing and identity are well made points I had not considered, Dr Lucky.
Gigilaco should follow your recommendations here and keep this message board in the picture.
It is important for players to correctly understand this new delayed payout reason and watch for any abuse of it - there are enough rogues out there who would be quick to seize on it as an excuse to "hold" player payouts.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: drlucky at June 30, 2003, 2:13 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
something else even funnier occurred to me. TH says he was forced to "freeze" the funds according the Act he cites (even though no such authorization is given by the Act). Then he states that the money will have to remain back in the player's account. When funds are "freezed" this means they are locked so the owner cannot access them in any way. However, by leaving them in the player's account (for him to play with some more), this is not a real "freezing" of funds. If they claim the law mandates they freeze his funds, they did not even do it properly.
[This message has been edited by drlucky (edited 06-30-2003).]
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: drlucky at June 30, 2003, 2:11 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
this is really interesting because I realize I was mistaken before when i posted the link the the "anti money laundering act" that TH first cites as the basis for the cashout denial. I actually posted a link to the Interactive Gaming and Interactive Wagering Arrangement of Regulations (hey I just did a google search, what do I know). This seems related but is separate from the anti money laundering act itself that TH said was their basis. But now TH comes along and cites a portion of the interactive gaming regulations from the link I provided as their justification! As if TH may have just clicked that link above to find something he could cite.
And as Jetset said, there is no authority here to freeze payments. Further, TH's statement that they witheld gigalicos identity makes no sense. how can such a transasction be reported to and approved by the gov't without knowing who it is?
I suggest gigilaco call TH on this and ask the name of the antiguan authority it was reported to ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: hhcfreebie at June 30, 2003, 2:04 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by RedSpy:
You did not get the crucial point: I was asking if he immediately tried to pay off using a different method of payment -- let's say in less than 24 hours. If this was the case, and he somewhat ticked GPC off, then I don't wonder that they took all legal measures they are required to by law.
No matter how much they are upset, they must pay no matter what. It's their own rule, player followed their rules and should get paid.
If what you said is true, then this type of casino is among the lowest it can get and we don't need it at all. Casinos can lock/block any players they want after they pay.
For all other casinos out there use this stunt to stall payment, your action is not justified and we players will always post your name on the board. We have enough excuses for non-payment and we don't need another.
Let me repeat again, we play by casino's rules and they must pay . That's what casinos stand for. Those who don't pay custom... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at June 30, 2003, 12:38 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Global Player has ery kindly provided the following legal justification for their actions here.
However, we have been unable to find therein any authority for suspending a payout, and perhaps even more worrying is the apparent absence of any timeframes or constraints.
If you link those two it becomes a player concern - a transaction could be suspended until the Antiguan authorities consider the report and (presumably) authorise a payout. We know that some of these authorities can be pretty laid back, so theoretically a player could be waiting for ages to get his or her money if a casino decides that their transaction is "suspect". Meanwhile the casino continues to hold the cash.
It has potential for abuse by the more unscrupulous elements in the business.
"Our secruity procedure is based on the:
ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA
REGULATIONS CONCERNING
INTERACTIVE GAMING AND INTERACTIVE WAGERING
ARRANGEMENT OF REGULATIONS
Part XVI
DUTY TO ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at June 28, 2003, 1:57 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
I received the above response from Thorsten Hillebrecht when I contacted him to pursue this issue yesterday.
I have asked him for the specific section of the Act which authorises these actions.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: TH at June 27, 2003, 12:26 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Dear Reader,
Due to our privacy policy, we are not permitted to disclose any private information about our customers, however, we would like to explain our security procedure.
If a person transfers cash money to an online casino then, soon after, wants to withdraw ia the banking system, this is considered suspicious, as per the Money Laundering (Prevention) Act.
This security procedure is utilized in all online Casinos.
The Antiguan Money Laundering (Prevention) Act is one among other legal restrictions we have
to adhere to. Therefore, if a person acts as above, it may be a corpus delicate regarding the Antiguan Money Laundering (Prevention) Act.
If a customers' behavior appears suspicious to us, we hold payment until further investigation.
As we are licensed by the Antiguan Government, we abide by the Antiguan Law, including the Money Laundering (Prevention) Act.
Kind regards
Thorsten
--
Thorsten Hillebrecht
Business Dev... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: RedSpy at June 27, 2003, 7:50 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
@caruso: You did not get the crucial point: I was asking if he immediately tried to pay off using a different method of payment -- let's say in less than 24 hours. If this was the case, and he somewhat ticked GPC off, then I don't wonder that they took all legal measures they are required to by law.
@drlucky: Full ACK.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: caruso at June 27, 2003, 6:55 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
"Red Spy" - what an idiotic first post. Because a player chooses to attempt a cashout out utilizing a different method to his deposit it's reasonable that the casino report it to the authorities and freeze his account as suspected money laundering; and, according to you, the player is attemppting a "rip off".
Oh dear.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: drlucky at June 27, 2003, 6:47 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by RedSpy:
@gigilaco: Just to get you right: You deposited $2000 ia Western Union, pinched their 25% switch bonus, played just enough to convert the bonus and then immediately tried to pay off using a different payment method?
Sounds like a rip-off to me, no wonder they reported it to the authorities. But freezing the amount is likely overshot.
Just my 2 cents,
RedSpy
[This message has been edited by RedSpy (edited 06-27-2003).]
Hey, these are GPC's own terms. IF GPC doesn't want player's cashing out a bonus, they should change their own rules or stop giving bonuses. I know it sucks for a casino to lose $500 on a bonus hunter. But nothing is wrong with a player following a casinos' rules, and a casino should also follow their own rules.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: drlucky at June 27, 2003, 6:43 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by slycin56:
Actually, it talks about freezing the funds all over that law.
those laws talk about freezing funds on the order of the government itself, not because a casino itself thinks a transaction is suspicious. nowhere is such authority to do so even mentioned.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: RedSpy at June 27, 2003, 5:51 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
@gigilaco: Just to get you right: You deposited $2000 ia Western Union, pinched their 25% switch bonus, played just enough to convert the bonus and then immediately tried to pay off using a different payment method?
Sounds like a rip-off to me, no wonder they reported it to the authorities. But freezing the amount is likely overshot.
Just my 2 cents,
RedSpy
[This message has been edited by RedSpy (edited 06-27-2003).]
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slotski at June 27, 2003, 2:37 am | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
I have always thought Global Player was a good operation.
They (Ted Hyatt) should respond on this board as to what the reasons behind this action are.
Will be interesting to see if they respond.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jetset at June 26, 2003, 11:18 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
Giglaco, did you query Global Player regarding the provisions of the law which Dr. Lucky provided for you? What did they say?
Grateful if you would keep us informed as this develops because it raises some ery pertinent issues.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: gigilaco at June 26, 2003, 7:23 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
I appreciate your help!
I check GPC web cashier.It seems GPC have not Western Union payments option.
So I have request payments $2000 by Wire.Remain $480 in account.I am wating they approve.
I will let you know the result soon.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: drlucky at June 26, 2003, 3:42 pm | | Topic: Global-player withdrawal problem Forum: Winner Online |
They require casinos to report any suspicious behavior, but it says nothing about them having to freeze accounts. Further, I don't think gigilaco's behaviour qualifies as suspicious. He probably didn't have any way to fund his neteller account with $2000 at the instant, but he wanted that bonus so he wired them money ia western union, and he prefers the money back into his neteller account for later gambling. Also, the money laundering act said something about reporting transactions over $10,000. $2,000 hardly qualifies as being significant. maybe gigilaco can just request the money back by western union - then GPC can't claim the 'different withdrawal method' BS.
unless GPC can clarify and document their position, GPC should be added to the list of rogue casinos. I certainly won't play there now.
[This message has been edited by drlucky (edited 06-26-2003).]
| | Static Link |
|