| Posted by: The Original Mary at September 2, 2003, 1:06 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Keerap, Alexa is rendering full charts for gpwa.net today; ranking clearly between 6k and 3.5k for the last three months.
Cindy is right and I am wrong! Point to Cindy!
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: deaning at September 1, 2003, 10:58 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Too right Perky. Pity this thread has been so largely ignored. Oh well.http://www.winneronline.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000929.html
Alexa has no real bearing on the commercial potential of a site IMHO. I don't use it as it contain(ed?) spyware.
Case in point, a fellow webmaster has a terrific Alexa rank yet in 2 years made $0 to date. Agreed it may be useful as a tool for professionals to gauge traffic trends and audiences and that is about it.
Gimme my 1500 google searchers daily instead thanks.
[This message has been edited by deaning (edited 09-02-2003).]
[This message has been edited by deaning (edited 09-02-2003).]
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: PERKYPOO at September 1, 2003, 10:14 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
As usual, Cyndi s Mary s gpwa s opa.
My god, does every discussion has to bring up you peoople past problems out to the open to be rehashed again and again? It never fails, every new dicussion ends with this mess. Give it a rest.
It is obvious that certain people in these elite groups/boards/associations don't care too much for one another nor has respect for each other, nor shows respect for others and their opinions. There are more important things going on than the fight between you people. As you are supposed to be respectable members and leaders of the gambling community by the web sites, forums and portals you represent, you are really displaying behavior that is down right rougish.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slycin56 at September 1, 2003, 7:01 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Just to put this in perspective, Mary posted this ranking list on B2G's board -
Traffic Rank for wheretobet.com: 482,767
Traffic Rank for gamingmagazine.com: 195,355
Traffic Rank for casinowire.com: 131,912
Traffic Rank for casinoplayersadvocate.com: 109,702
Traffic Rank for ideopokerjunkie.com: 80,983
Traffic Rank for rgtonline.com: 62,814
Traffic Rank for gamblink.com: 48,353
Traffic Rank for got2bet.com: 47,896
Traffic Rank for casino.com: 24,455
Traffic Rank for bet2gamble.com: 20,177 - message board
Traffic Rank for gonegambling.com: 18,908 - message board
Traffic Rank for casinomeister.com: 16,818 - message board
Traffic Rank for gambling.com: 5,522
Traffic Rank for winneronline.com: 4,602 - message board
She didn't include GPWA in that list -
Traffic Rank for GPWA.net: 4,491
------------------
SlyCin56
Manager, GPWA
Video Poker Junkie.com
GamblingGirl.com
Video Poker 4.us
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slycin56 at September 1, 2003, 6:37 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by The_CPA:
I disagree with the toolbar theory.
Message boards artificially inflate traffic figures due the numerous page iews per person.
While I agree that message boards are going to artificially inflate those figures s. portals with no message boards, the numbers comparing Bet2Gamble, WinnerOnLine and GPWA are still quite usable. The only difference between the three is that GPWA doesn't have a portal in addition to its message board like the other two do, which actually makes GPWA's numbers more aluable.
And yes, you're right, CPA - she was trying to "stick it to me & GPWA" once again. She went pretty far out on that limb this time.
[This message has been edited by slycin56 (edited 09-01-2003).]
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: The_CPA at September 1, 2003, 3:52 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
I disagree with the toolbar theory.
Message boards artificially inflate traffic figures due the numerous page iews per person.
Alexa figures are useless in terms of comparing one site to another if a webmaster is driving traffic to multiple portals as many of us do.
Not that any of it matters, and it has zero to do with the topic of this thread, so let's tell it like it is.
Mary was once again trying to stick it to Cindy, and wound up sticking to herself.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slycin56 at September 1, 2003, 3:13 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by The Original Mary:
No ESP necessary.
Yes, I think that's exactly what you did.
Alexa offers historical graphs going back a year.
It will be interesting to see if GPWA.net continues to draw more traffic than Winneronline.com
No ESP necessary? What's your theory on that one, pray tell?
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: joeyl at September 1, 2003, 3:13 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Alrighty then.
Sunny.Am not enamoured by Sunny's repeat performance of an err they apologised for.
Abbot..Am not gonna beat up on a webmaster who does'nt advertise for a firm who ignore email..
CM..Am not surprised he's annoyed they took his page twice.
Alexa rank is collected from Alexa toolbar patrons,not the whole net.
Players will still play at Sunny and casino's will forever ignore email so i wish CM had just kept negotiating until he was happy because these arguements are futile and no one wins.
I'm off to buy my kangaroo a pogo stick.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at September 1, 2003, 2:53 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
No ESP necessary.
Yes, I think that's exactly what you did.
Alexa offers historical graphs going back a year.
It will be interesting to see if GPWA.net continues to draw more traffic than Winneronline.com
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slycin56 at September 1, 2003, 2:49 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
I just have to copy these posts so you can't edit them out later. This one is just too funny!!!
Quote: Originally Posted by The Original Mary:
On this graph, there is a sudden surge in iews in the last twenty four hours. Look for the blue ertical line at the far right.
This can be accomplished by an organized group of people all using the Alexa toolbar and then iewing a page to manipulate its rating upwards.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=3m&size=large &compare_sites=&url=gpwa.net#graph
Quote: Originally Posted by The Original Mary:
The Professor is correct. Interestingly enough, the appeal of GPWA.net to professionals in the industry took a strong turn upwards in the last twenty four hours.
Maybe they are avidly discussing relative Alexa ratings and the impact that publicizing them could have on advertisers.
[This message has been edited by slycin56 (edited 09-01-2003).]
| | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at September 1, 2003, 2:47 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
The Professor is correct. Interestingly enough, the appeal of GPWA.net to professionals in the industry took a strong turn upwards in the last twenty four hours.
Maybe they are avidly discussing relative Alexa ratings and the impact that publicizing them could have on advertisers.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slycin56 at September 1, 2003, 2:47 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
ROTFLMAO! So what are you trying to say there, Mary? That we have ESP and *knew* you were going to do this, so we coordinated our clicking efforts today to make that little blue bar shoot up?? LMAO
Unbelievable, but hysterically funny!
I have no idea what you're looking at, nor do I care, but we've had great rankings at Alexa for quite a while now because I get told about them all the time. I could care less.
------------------
SlyCin56
Manager, GPWA
Video Poker Junkie.com
GamblingGirl.com
Video Poker 4.us
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at September 1, 2003, 2:40 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
On this graph, there is a sudden surge in iews in the last twenty four hours. Look for the blue ertical line at the far right.
This can be accomplished by an organized group of people all using the Alexa toolbar and then iewing a page to manipulate its rating upwards.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/t...=gpwa.net#graph
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: Professor at September 1, 2003, 2:35 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
I just looked at the ranking they showed.
I have a theory though. I believe Alexa arrives at this figure by tallying isits by users who have the Alexa tool bar installed on their browser.
My site and GPWA both appeal to webmasters and professionals within the industry. I suspect this type of user would be far more likely to use Alexa.
When you think about it, Why would players have the Alexa toolbar installed on their browsers? What alue would they get from it?
I have no idea if this theory is correct, but that's how I thought Alexa works.
It's also one of the reasons I don't use Alexa to determine where to buy media when I am targeting players. I do use it when targeting webmasters or a professional audience.
[This message has been edited by Professor (edited 09-01-2003).]
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slycin56 at September 1, 2003, 2:34 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
GPWA has been averaging 10-12000 page iews per day, just on the forums, for all this year. Today alone, in the first 18.5 hours, we've had 10,500 page iews - and it's a fairly slow day.
The site also gets a large amount of traffic as we're listed ery highly in the search engines on a lot of terms.
But we're a business association, which is why we don't advertise to players.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at September 1, 2003, 2:27 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Professor, did you look at the graphs of the last three months activity? Or just the average?
Why would GPWA.net--a site that is member-only--have more traffic than winneronline? If that is the case, then casinos should be advertising on it for players.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: Professor at September 1, 2003, 2:01 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Jydeman is correct. I checked Alexa and found the following:
Bet2Gamble = 20,177
GPWA = 4,491
Casino Affiliate Programs = 17,492 (My Site )
If I understand Alexa rankings the lower the figure the higher your ranking in terms of isitors. I dont know if this is only Alexa users or not, but it is interesting.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at September 1, 2003, 1:59 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Something weird here. Jyde, look at the chart in the detailed discussion for different periods and see what you think.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/t...=gpwa.net#graph
I didn't expect the GPWA site to draw much traffic because it's not a general interest site for players; players can't read most of it.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slycin56 at September 1, 2003, 7:34 am | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by The Original Mary:
Is there any affiliate site that beats bet2gamble's Alexa traffic rating?
I'll put Video Poker Junkie's stats up against his any day of the week. How much traffic any webmaster gets is not what defines how successful the portal is - conversions is what determines that. I have a consistent 40% return isitor ratio over 2 years now, and I have as many conversions as webmasters with four and five times as much traffic as I do - many webmasters will erify that for you. (And I don't have to buy traffic. )
Personally, I don't even pay attention to Alexa ratings because they're only important to webmasters - and you didn't mention GPWA's Alexa rating there; I hear it's pretty damned good.
------------------
SlyCin56
Manager, GPWA
Video Poker Junkie.com
GamblingGirl.com
Video Poker 4.us
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slycin56 at September 1, 2003, 6:36 am | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by The Original Mary:
He can afford to hire other people, because he gets so much more traffic and can charge more for advertising. I didn't realize that the GPWA was a socialist business organization that only supports webmasters making too little money to hire professional staff. That would explain why you thought $500 was an unreasonable charge for advertising.
Mary, how low can you go? Please show us.
Do what you will to attack me or GPWA or its members, but it doesn't change the fact that you're defending a wrongful claim, and unprofessional, greedy & unethical behavoir.
Jetset - perhaps if you didn't call every word we post "personally motivated" it wouldn't create such animosity. There *are* opinions in this world other than yours that are worth stating and listening to; and just because that opinion doesn't agree with yours is not a reason to call it "personally motivated".
YOU defended and protected... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at September 1, 2003, 5:54 am | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by AmateurSleuth:
Please Jetset,
Your opinions don't carry the weight with me that they have in the past. Given your recent actions (or lack thereof), I have little regard for your comments at this point. They have no alue.
If it is okay for B2G to edit your paid/copyrighted material and disseminate it to his own subscribers without tellling them the truth, nor ever letting them know at any time that he did this. I know this was okay with you because you said so. You lost my respect for your own ethics at that point. Ethics for one is ethics for all. Or is it one standard for your "friends" and a "sad indictment" from others.
And no, I don't judge John Abbott's actions based solely on "ethics" because I live in a world where bills have to be paid and no one arbitrarily throws away $7000K per month income from a long-time sponsor based on solely on what's been presented here. John is not running a charity, nor does any... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at August 31, 2003, 11:37 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
He can afford to hire other people, because he gets so much more traffic and can charge more for advertising. I didn't realize that the GPWA was a socialist business organization that only supports webmasters making too little money to hire professional staff. That would explain why you thought $500 was an unreasonable charge for advertising.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: slycin56 at August 30, 2003, 9:08 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
What lovely terminology to describe what all of us do in this business.
That's nothing more than the rest of us do, Mary, and in addition to that many of us build our own sites and databases - neither of which CM did.
[This message has been edited by slycin56 (edited 08-30-2003).]
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: The Original Mary at August 30, 2003, 8:52 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
"The content in question was derived from the casino's website.
He goes to the casino website, reads what their terms are, bonus offers, etc. and types it in that form."
This is not true, and if you had compared the content of the ad to the content in Sunny's sportsbook web site you would know that.
The database record--which is not a review--contains more information for the player in addition to that found on the sportsbook website.
Many sites do have "databases" or "listings" that are much as you describe, minimal effort cut & paste on a spreadsheet. They are updated rarely and contain outdated data. They do not have multiple levels of organization or user access; they rely on bulletin board search functions, alphabetical arrangements as lists, or categorization by software if the user is lucky.
Webmasters who do not have expertise in database or information structure and management often don't appreciate how much work a prof... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: AmateurSleuth at August 29, 2003, 1:34 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
I had been under the misapprehension that John Abbott had sacrificed an income of $7K per month in attempting to act as a "mediator" between Sunny and B2G.
However, John Abbott made a "misprepresentation of material fact" in making this claim to his members over at Gonggambling. In fact, Sunny had notified John that they would no longer be advertising on Gonegambling as of August 31, 2003. So, in fact, this looks like an attempt by John to hold Sunny hostage for severing their long-time business contract.
John makes himself out to be self-sacrificing on the basis of ethics, but he never would have received another dime from Sunny anyway, and he knew this when he jumped into this mess.
------------------
AS
TheAPage.com
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: The_CPA at August 29, 2003, 8:55 am | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
All we are talking about is that form. Not his site template, logo styles, or anything like that.
He has the example on his site template, so it gives the impression that they used his template, but they didn't.
That is same form he uses for all the casinos he lists.
The content in question was derived from the casino's website.
He goes to the casino website, reads what their terms are, bonus offers, etc. and types it in that form.
That's all this is about. Strictly no big whoop. Especially since they were affiliated at the time.
Here are few questions you have to ask.
Should Sunny have obtained permission first?
Sure, they should have run it by him.
Had they run it by him first, would he have said yes, you can use it? He indicates that he would have OKed it anyway which makes his claim even more ludacrous.
Was the ad a time consumming work of art that required hours of work to create? Absolutely not. It's a simple table. ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: hhcfreebie at August 29, 2003, 8:54 am | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Take it outside please. This is not the right place to fight.
Max please move it to "webmaster only" or "jokers wild".
------------------
online gambling "watcher".
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: bart at August 29, 2003, 8:27 am | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Sirius:
[B]
Didn't anyone read what John Abbott was selling when he started gonegambling? I warned casinomeister about recommending gonegambling before because of the scam systems he sold for years.
How embarassing that has to be. I am not a big fan of snake oil salesman. It's bad enough when they don't work and the mark loses his money on top of the money paid for the "system". But it is even worse when they do work - for some small amount of time till the math finally catches up. Then the mark can chase his losses forever.
I hope that stuff is gone forever and hope you continue to shine the light when you see such nonsense.
That said, doesn't mean the current action is not responsible. I think it is.
bart
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: bart at August 29, 2003, 8:19 am | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Sirius:
Was the information in the ad all written by bet2gamble? The 'layout' (if you can call it that) is completely irrelevant and maybe his lawyer doesn't understand that layouts aren't copyrighted on the Internet but the code can be. Designs have to patented (if the are 'novel') and only if the 'design' was a 'work of art' could it be copyrighted.
[This message has been edited by Sirius (edited 08-29-2003).][/QUOTE]
What can and can't be copyrighted is probably an issue on which reasonable people can disagree. From the first site I found about "copyright issues" I found this.
"Hey - everyone knows that HTML coding and webpage layouts cannot be copyrighted! Based upon what? I am of the opinion that a webpage layout may be copyrighted if it is actually written and/or designed by the author and has been fixed in a tangible medium by being saved to a hard drive.
If you wanted, you could put your HTML into a te... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Sirius at August 29, 2003, 7:01 am | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Was the information in the ad all written by bet2gamble? The 'layout' (if you can call it that) is completely irrelevant and maybe his lawyer doesn't understand that layouts aren't copyrighted on the Internet but the code can be. Designs have to patented (if the are 'novel') and only if the 'design' was a 'work of art' could it be copyrighted.
Also, bet2gamble infringed copyright by modifying the text from winneronline's faq to include on one of his pages, unless he got permission to create the derivative work! He can't actually claim copyright on that even though he does. There is certainly 'substantial similarity' which is the standard for copyright infringement.
Didn't anyone read what John Abbott was selling when he started gonegambling? I warned casinomeister about recommending gonegambling before because of the scam systems he sold for years.
From the page I linked to earlier that John wrote about his 'make a living playing roulette' system he was trying to sell:
Q... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The_CPA at August 28, 2003, 11:50 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
After he clarifies this it will be clear.
Quote:
Your email to Niclole certainly doesn't read like a one time 500.00 fee. My guess is that if a 500.00 one time offer did surface, it was somewhere else down the road, and AFTER the damage was done. It is clearly not the intent of the email posted here.
If he was holding out for 500 a month and then told John to just go for 500 here at the end...well you see the problem with that I'm sure.
------------------
O.G.S.
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: bart at August 28, 2003, 11:42 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Bet2Gamble.com:
bart,
We don't expect Sunny to pay us as they have refused to do so for almost a year. We just wanted to make players and webmasters aware of the kind of people that run Sunny.
In closing, please be careful of what others are posting about us and GoneGambling as most of it is just incorrect static intended to derail this thread.
C.M.
www.Bet2Gamble.com
Hi CM,
You are up late. Here's the deal.
I am a player. I am at the mercy of somebody running a server in another country and no regulation. The only thing I have are good portal owners. Players and portal owners have to stick together. I don't "know" all the portal owners but I know some seem to be player advocates - you, Spearmaster, CasinoMeister, Joe Plummer. I guess I will add Gone Gambling to the list and I am sure there are others. So I don't really care if the rogue behavior is directed at me, another player or the portal owne... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The_CPA at August 28, 2003, 11:28 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Perhaps you all should take the time to post accuarate information when making serious assaults on other companies.
Your email to Niclole certainly doesn't read like a one time 500.00 fee. My guess is that if a 500.00 one time offer did surface, it was somewhere else down the road and AFTER the damage was done. It is clearly not the intent of the email posted here. So tell the truth if that is the case.
G.G. had 5 grand all over the place. Another typo, or was that the 10 months you spent trying to collect at 500.00 a month?
I think there is more to this story than you want people to openly know.
If you are so offended why all the BS?
Just have your Ace attorney file the papers.
------------------
O.G.S.
[This message has been edited by The_CPA (edited 08-29-2003).]
| | Static Link |
| Posted by: bart at August 28, 2003, 11:25 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by slycin56:
Bart, generally speaking, "presentation" is not covered under copyright laws - only original material.
And CM himself posted his letters here in another thread just below this one, and he clearly asks for $500 a month on top of his affiliate commissions. He also clearly states that Sunny paid him a number of free accounts to give away for his "presentation" - that technically makes them part owner of that write-up.
Not a lawyer. Did a quick search and the link below. Note the question about taking the format/layout and changing it to meet the needs. Interlay the admittance for lifting in Nicole's email. I don't see Sunny having a slam dunk here. But even if they did......
http://www.whatiscopyright.org/
Now this makes sense to me. Although the Blackjack Books I read have the same information. But I can't just copy that information. Almost none of it is original material in the sense that the information ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Bet2Gamble.com at August 28, 2003, 11:15 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
bart,
You read that correctly. We were willing to settle for 1 month's worth of advertising at US$500 because we had a good relationship with Sunny at the time. It was not for multiple months worth of advertising, which is being falsely claimed.
We had basically dropped the issue until we saw our copyrighted material yet AGAIN being used by Sunny in a full page ad in the Jan 2003 edition of CTN, almost three months after we alerted them to their theft of our copyrighted property. We could only tolerate so much in your face theft.
Our attorney's specialty is in intellectual property law, so we know we have a case despite what some are saying here.
We don't expect Sunny to pay us as they have refused to do so for almost a year. We just wanted to make players and webmasters aware of the kind of people that run Sunny.
In closing, please be careful of what others are posting about us and GoneGambling as most of it is just incorrect static intended to derail this ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: The_CPA at August 28, 2003, 11:09 pm | | Topic: Sunny Group Problems??? Forum: Winner Online |
Jydeman you are the biased one, not me.
If you don't want to take the blinders off, that's your choice. I realize he is your new best friend.
Bart this is what he said:
Quote:
How about Sunny
purchases advertising with us, and at US$500 a month
Clearly not a one month only suggestion.
------------------
O.G.S.
| | Static Link |
|