| Posted by: Mr J at February 5, 2004, 7:43 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster
In my experience, autoplay plays the strategy it is programmed to play. I have never seen it do anything else. There are mistakes in the default strategy, but not the ones you mention. Did you check the playcheck records?
If you're talking to me, they were obviously bugs. I checked the strategy and it certainly didn't have these plays selected.
I did check the play history (just to make sure I wasn't dreaming) and they confirmed it. I just changed to manual play and forgot about it. Then people started posting about the autoplay, noting a couple of bugs and the strategy chart being incorrect. Course by this stage my play records where gone so no, I don't have any evidence. I did use it ery early on at one of the first casino's to have autoplay, so maybe the bugs were ironed out. I have seen a few threads on other forums about this problem, reasonably recent.
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| Posted by: GrandMaster at February 5, 2004, 2:16 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
In my experience, autoplay plays the strategy it is programmed to play. I have never seen it do anything else. There are mistakes in the default strategy, but not the ones you mention. Did you check the playcheck records?
Btw, does anyone if there is a way to set the double down surrender in Spanish Blackjack in autoplay? I have not been able to find it.
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| Posted by: Mr J at February 5, 2004, 1:10 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
I wouldn't be surprised at any autoplay bugs. After all, it did hit a 4-5 card hard 17 and a couple of 13s s 4-6 last time (and the only time) I used it. This was back in march/april '03 at lucky nugget.
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| Posted by: umberto at February 2, 2004, 11:51 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by hhcfreebie
I have to say the matter is ery disturbing to me. One possible reason is that when you set up the auto play to be too fast, the graphics can't catch up and you will will see the previous hands dealed instead. Still, I have no explaination whatsoever for the 3 suited aces showing.
Last weekend I set up my first ever iper auto play and I watched most of the hands. It seems okay to me although I lost a lot of hands. Guess I'll play by myself from now on.
Perhaps you didn't understand the situation I described... or better I haven't given all the details. I am talking about Microgaming Viper software but the whole thing happened while NOT playing with autoplay. My gameplay was regural. The good and old one that wants you to push the button each time you want the dealer to deal...! I just say that for calrification reasons.
Also I have won hundrends of $$$ with autoplay by not even being in front of my monitor, so I am not agai... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: hhcfreebie at February 2, 2004, 9:41 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
I have to say the matter is ery disturbing to me. One possible reason is that when you set up the auto play to be too fast, the graphics can't catch up and you will will see the previous hands dealed instead. Still, I have no explaination whatsoever for the 3 suited aces showing.
Last weekend I set up my first ever iper auto play and I watched most of the hands. It seems okay to me although I lost a lot of hands. Guess I'll play by myself from now on.
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| Posted by: umberto at February 2, 2004, 6:33 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by bbchang21
At least in my case the Playcheck record was consistent with the alues of the hands displayed on the screen, but I don't understand how one card be worth 18.
I regret not having seen the alues displayed in Playcheck. The whole fact is strange but i believe the main conversation should focus on the fact that the software providers do not provide bug-free software....
And it is not Microgaming the company that I'm going to accuse here. I do not want to accuse anybody but their only job is to provide a solid software without any problems. Many questions arise far from that.
Don't they check the software? Do they provide the software in the industry without proper testing...?
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| Posted by: bbchang21 at February 2, 2004, 6:21 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by luckyben
Isn't that the whole point of posting the image? - the fact that 3 ace of spades are showing in a two deck game and that both the 16 and the 18 card totals cannot be correct is suggesting that something is seriously wrong?!
See http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...hread.php?t=356
I have been the ictim of this bug, too. It seems that sometimes the Viper displays the wrong cards. At least in my case the Playcheck record was consistent with the alues of the hands displayed on the screen, but I don't understand how one card be worth 18.
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| Posted by: umberto at February 2, 2004, 6:20 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by umberto
The most strange is the numbers next to the cards. One ace = 18 and ....... 2 aces = 16
Ohdreampop read my posts and then start asking questions. I think i was clear. I find this as strange as you do. Do not ask silly questions.
I also stated that i do not want any gain from the casino. Do you really believe that I would spend even one minute in front of my monitor by trying to fix an image and present it here...? Maybe you, not me. Be serious......The second strange thing exept the three same suit aces in a two deck game is the fact that the dealer was dealt 1 card and the number next to his ace is 18. I took the screenshot when the cards were dealt. I didn't take any actions previously.
I do not plan to contact the casino. The matter has passed for me. The truth is that I would never mention it if i hadn't seen the the specific thread in the forum. I do not want to persude anybody, I do not want to blame a casino, I do not ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: luckyben at February 2, 2004, 6:17 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Yes... I am reasonably adept at using Photoshop and realise it is relatively easy to knock up an image like the one posted... the question I have is: Why would anyone want to do this?
Perhaps I am being slightly naive but if someone posts something like the image iewable on this thread, I assume there is no hidden motive... obviously it could be used to perhaps get money out of the casino but the original poster has already stated that he has no intention of trying to gain financially.
I may be wrong, but I'm not sure how instantly putting down posts as 'conspiracies' is helpful?
I think the key is for Umberto to contact casino support and to keep us updated with what they report back.
Ben.
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| Posted by: Gamblegirl at February 2, 2004, 6:02 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
It's Lucky Nugget, which for some reason is considered important enough to try and smudge out.
As for photoshop skills, it would take maybe 10 minutes to do that as you're only doing a cut-and-paste job, superimposing the new cards and the alue of one of the hands. Yo're not dealing with differing light or sizes that you normally deal with in jpg photo's. If that's what occcurred here, that is.
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| Posted by: luckyben at February 2, 2004, 5:53 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by ohdreampop
Okay, I understand the black paint part, but why does it say you have 16 when you're only showing 12? And if the dealer has 18, I assume his card was showing at the time? So why the black paint there (which should only be needed on the backs of the cards)? How much Photoshop work went into this screenshot?
Isn't that the whole point of posting the image? - the fact that 3 ace of spades are showing in a two deck game and that both the 16 and the 18 card totals cannot be correct is suggesting that something is seriously wrong?!
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| Posted by: ohdreampop at February 2, 2004, 5:43 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by umberto
I have put black paint where the name of the casino shows. You can easily understand which is the casino but i do not want to harm them or to be blamed for anything. Enjoy ( ....cut )!!!!!
Okay, I understand the black paint part, but why does it say you have 16 when you're only showing 12? And if the dealer has 18, I assume his card was showing at the time? So why the black paint there (which should only be needed on the backs of the cards)? How much Photoshop work went into this screenshot?
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| Posted by: luckyben at February 2, 2004, 4:05 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
If I were you I definitely would contact the casino - who knows what other bugs are present? At the end of the day you pay money to play BJ... you know how BJ works, and it doesn't work like that!
I would mail the casino and just see what they say... if you have the playcheck reference number it would also be interesting to see what they see as the recorded results.
I would also state that you are not trying to gain financially which may prompt them to actually do a proper investigation instead of simply accusing you of trying to con money out of them (as you say, it's best to get that out in the open to begin with).
The only problem I can see is that they'll come back with "and so... why has it taken you a month to contact us?".
If you don't get much joy out of the casino I would then take it to MG... but from what I know of them they are not exactly over eager to help individuals...
Let me know how you get on - if you come up against any... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: umberto at February 2, 2004, 2:02 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by luckyben
I think Max has to allow the image to be uploaded... but since it's now available I guess he's allowed it
But yes, that image is ery worrying... it's a serious fault... not only are there more aces than there should be in the game, but the game is not recognising them as aces either.
Have you spoken to the casino about this at all?
Ben.
No. Not at all. Although I was "raped" there by their blackjack game I didn't contact them. I think that I might have managed to take my deposit back if i threaten them a little, but i didn't.... I tried to contact casinomeister for this. He didn't reply at first and then I forgot it and I did not insisted. So the matter was forgotten. I do not know. My friend that lives 100m far from me had the same "problem", so i thought that many people saw this while playing and I took it as a software problem.
Imagine me to see the same thing to happen twi... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: luckyben at February 2, 2004, 1:20 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
I think Max has to allow the image to be uploaded... but since it's now available I guess he's allowed it
But yes, that image is ery worrying... it's a serious fault... not only are there more aces than there should be in the game, but the game is not recognising them as aces either.
Have you spoken to the casino about this at all?
Ben.
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| Posted by: umberto at February 1, 2004, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster
This, if true, is much more serious than the mistakes in the autoplay strategy. What does Playcheck show?
It is ery difficult for me to find out what playcheck shows because i played a month ago. But i have a screenshot. I do not know if it is right to show the name of the casino... But this happened twice. I mean that a friend of mine had the same experience in the same casino... I do not think that the casino has something to do with this. the fault is in the software and microgaming should fix it. The most strange is the numbers next to the cards. One ace = 18 and ....... 2 aces = 16
If someone tells me how to upload the picture i'll have it here for you. I tried the attach files option but nothing seems to happen...
Update: I found put that the file is too big to upload. It is 107K and 100K is the maximum. Any ideas? It is worth watching it so I'd like to post it. The format is jpeg and i do not know what ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: GrandMaster at January 31, 2004, 4:36 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by umberto
Hey guys.
There are some bugs in iper software.
I played european 2 deck Blackjack and
the dealer gave 2 aces of the same suit.
And guess what...? The dealer has an ace
of the same suit with the 2 aces i had.
That's a bug, I think....., in a 2 deck game
three same cards.
This, if true, is much more serious than the mistakes in the autoplay strategy. What does Playcheck show?
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| Posted by: GrandMaster at January 31, 2004, 4:26 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by DealerBusts
In that case they shouldn't bother with any default settings since it is 'apparently' up to the player to get it to play whatever way it wants. I wouldn't split 7,7 against an 8 even if I was blind drunk. theguru, there seems to be a conflict of interest on your part especially considering the fact that you are a portal owner. I won't press you on the matter but I think deep down in your conscience you know that a bit of sly thievery by MG casinos is going on here.
Splitting 7,7 s 8 is the correct strategy for Vegas Downtown BJ or in general for any 1 or 2 deck game if you can double after splitting. The difference between hitting at splitting with different number of decks is at most 0.02 units either way. All the other mistakes in the default strategy are fairly small, too, they may add an extra 0.01% to the house edge. Still, they should not be there and casinos should not give the impression that the built-in blackjack strategy is pe... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: pokermike at January 31, 2004, 11:57 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by luckyben
Can you go into playcheck and load up the details for that game and then take a screenshot? If you could then post it here that would be great... I would be interested to see that one. It also means you have proof of it if you want to challenge the casino / Microgaming etc.
Ben.
Do you mean the last person to post about the aces or my game with the split 7's?
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| Posted by: luckyben at January 31, 2004, 11:31 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Can you go into playcheck and load up the details for that game and then take a screenshot? If you could then post it here that would be great... I would be interested to see that one. It also means you have proof of it if you want to challenge the casino / Microgaming etc.
Ben.
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| Posted by: umberto at January 31, 2004, 11:25 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Hey guys.
There are some bugs in iper software.
I played european 2 deck Blackjack and
the dealer gave 2 aces of the same suit.
And guess what...? The dealer has an ace
of the same suit with the 2 aces i had.
That's a bug, I think....., in a 2 deck game
three same cards.
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| Posted by: pokermike at January 30, 2004, 7:03 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by MrWolf
If this allegation is indeed correct, and the iper software is deliberately misplaying BS, you should stop being a wanker and defending this outrageous abuse. Unless you're on commission that is.
Agreed. And it is indeed correct. Try it out for yourself at Lucky Nugget's Atlantic City Blackjack and you will see the same thing.
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| Posted by: MrWolf at January 30, 2004, 6:24 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by theguru
It says right on the websites for all iper casinos:
Says the same thing on the microgaming website. I don't think they ever refer to the autoplay as using perfect basic strategy. What they are doing is exactly what it says on their websites, allows you to define your own game strategy. Thus if a player wants to play perfect BS, then they are free to change it accordingly. I find that their default settings are ery close to perfect BS, and for egas strip BJ I find that it is perfect at the ipers I play. For gamblinboi to say they are false advertising is incorrect, they never say that their autoplay plays perfect BS, they say it is up to the player to set it how they want.
If this allegation is indeed correct, and the iper software is deliberately misplaying BS, you should stop being a wanker and defending this outrageous abuse. Unless you're on commission that is.
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| Posted by: gamblinboi at January 30, 2004, 12:05 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Gamblegirl
From the link I posted earlier. Am I missing something?
thanks gamblegirl, i knew someone posted something about this b4.
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| Posted by: Gamblegirl at January 29, 2004, 5:45 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
"Expert Mode will automatically play the best strategy for you, allowing the ery best return possible. And it empowers players with more information about the games," said Penn.
Expert Mode will prompt you if you've made a mathematically unsound decision and give you the option to change your decision. It's a great safeguard against careless play.
From the link I posted earlier. Am I missing something?
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| Posted by: GrandMaster at January 29, 2004, 5:40 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by gamblinboi
Wrong, wrong wrong!!
I've received emails touting the new ersion of Viper casino and several have claimed that Viper autoplay allows you to play perfectly without even being at the computer! Maybe they don't say it on their website but I've definately received promotional/news emails from several casinos stating that as fact!
It certainly *allows* you to play perfectly. You just have to set the strategy correctly.
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| Posted by: gamblinboi at January 29, 2004, 5:24 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by theguru
For gamblinboi to say they are false advertising is incorrect, they never say that their autoplay plays perfect BS, they say it is up to the player to set it how they want.
Wrong, wrong wrong!!
I've received emails touting the new ersion of Viper casino and several have claimed that Viper autoplay allows you to play perfectly without even being at the computer! Maybe they don't say it on their website but I've definately received promotional/news emails from several casinos stating that as fact!
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| Posted by: GrandMaster at January 29, 2004, 5:22 am | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by pokermike
I was playing at Lucky Nugget Atlantic City BJ and the autoplay split a pair of 7's against a dealer's 8. According to the Wizard of Odds' tables, this is incorrect. He says that AC is the same as Vegas Strip (except surrender) and on that table it shows to hit the pair of 7's, not split them.
There was a thread about it somewhere, maybe at the Casinomeister. You should check A+7 s 3, 4, or 5, 6,6 s 7 and 7,7 s 8 for Vegas Strip, Downtown and Atlantic City BJ, some of these are set incorrectly. The default strategy for Vegas Strip also contains a mistake for 9,9 s 8 or 9, you want to stand if you cannot split any more. This is unlikely to occur, but if it does, this mistake can be ery expensive.
The default strategy for Euro BJ needs to be changed at 9 s 2, A+7 s 8 or 10. I think this is all.
The moral is, you should never rely on the casino for strategy advice, whether online or at a land based casino. For example, some Cr... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: theguru at January 28, 2004, 9:10 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
LOL, Im also a player and could care less about the reputation of MG as long as players are being paid, but I would never play an autoplay without checking what the strategy is first. For any player to simply set the autoplay without checking the default first is just asking for an excuse to complain IMO.
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| Posted by: DealerBusts at January 28, 2004, 9:01 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by theguru
For gamblinboi to say they are false advertising is incorrect, they never say that their autoplay plays perfect BS, they say it is up to the player to set it how they want.
In that case they shouldn't bother with any default settings since it is 'apparently' up to the player to get it to play whatever way it wants. I wouldn't split 7,7 against an 8 even if I was blind drunk. theguru, there seems to be a conflict of interest on your part especially considering the fact that you are a portal owner. I won't press you on the matter but I think deep down in your conscience you know that a bit of sly thievery by MG casinos is going on here.
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| Posted by: Gamblegirl at January 28, 2004, 8:40 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
http://www.winneronline.com/article...er_software.htm
There real issue is whether or not it is set for perfect basic strategy given the different set of game rules, ENHC, number of decks,etc., or just uses a generic basic strategy, the kind you find at most B&M casino's, which assumes the dealer does peek, the player can double after splitting, soft-doubling and so on.
Gamblinboi is quite correct in this instance. If the software is splitting 7's ersus 8 it's not following any known basic strategy under any circumstances.
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| Posted by: theguru at January 28, 2004, 8:07 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
It says right on the websites for all iper casinos:
Quote:
Expert Mode is a collection of features that empower you with more information, and enable you to play better and faster.
These features include:
AutoPlay
Enables you to automatically play a selected number of consecutive hands or spins without having to interact with the software.
Game Strategy
Enables you to define the game strategy you want to play.
Says the same thing on the microgaming website. I don't think they ever refer to the autoplay as using perfect basic strategy. What they are doing is exactly what it says on their websites, allows you to define your own game strategy. Thus if a player wants to play perfect BS, then they are free to change it accordingly. I find that their default settings are ery close to perfect BS, and for egas strip BJ I find that it is perfect at the ipers I play. For gamblinboi to say they are false advertising is incorrect... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: DealerBusts at January 28, 2004, 7:56 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Yeah I noticed this bug too. Personally I think that the default settings should be BS and not to do so is a bit dishonest and underhand really. Nope its not a bug, its been done deliberately to relieve you from a few more cents per dollar bet.
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| Posted by: pokermike at January 28, 2004, 7:00 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by gamblinboi
erm, i thought that was the whole point of Viper. To play Perfect Play ALL The Time. They've advertised it as such. Miss-settings like this cost the player and make money for the casino. It's blatant false advertising and Microgaming knows it!
EXACTLY my point!
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| Posted by: gamblinboi at January 28, 2004, 6:23 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by theguru
It does not state on the casinos website that the autoplays are set to perfect basic strategy. It is up to the player to set how it plays. Youll notice the default settings are different for many iper casinos, usually only slight ariations which will only have minimal effects on EV. I guess this is a lesson learned to check the default settings before playing next time.
Cheers
erm, i thought that was the whole point of Viper. To play Perfect Play ALL The Time. They've advertised it as such. Miss-settings like this cost the player and make money for the casino. It's blatant false advertising and Microgaming knows it!
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| Posted by: theguru at January 28, 2004, 5:57 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
It does not state on the casinos website that the autoplays are set to perfect basic strategy. It is up to the player to set how it plays. Youll notice the default settings are different for many iper casinos, usually only slight ariations which will only have minimal effects on EV. I guess this is a lesson learned to check the default settings before playing next time.
Cheers
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| Posted by: Playtherush at January 28, 2004, 5:56 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by pokermike
This was the default setting, which should be perfect strategy.
Says who?
They can set it to play whatever way they want and you can change it to whatever YOU want. It's only been this way since hmm... forever.
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| Posted by: pokermike at January 28, 2004, 5:48 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Playtherush
You can set it to play whichever way you want. It's not a bug unless it was set to do one thing and did another.
This was the default setting, which should be perfect strategy.
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| Posted by: Playtherush at January 28, 2004, 5:44 pm | | Topic: Bug in Viper autoplay Forum: Winner Online |
You can set it to play whichever way you want. It's not a bug unless it was set to do one thing and did another.
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