| Posted by: bart at April 20, 2004, 7:46 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Bethug
I have had no problems with phoenician black jack or any rtg black jack.
I just lose like mad at cool cat casino and i would say that was normal play.
Most major casinos seem to be dealing a fair game, except playtec.
I busted out quick but that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is I can't go back because the wager requirements carry over. If they could do something about that, I would give them another go.
bart
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at April 20, 2004, 4:44 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Greyhound -
The point is that what Caruso calls fact may not be - and the person who is involved can speak for himself.
In any case, he is now aware of what I was talking about - and it is possible that there was a communication error somewhere. Nevertheless, my info remains correct.
DB -
Perhaps - but there were also data collection problems which throw the entire result set into some doubt. One cannot draw a firm conclusion from that information.
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| Posted by: DealerBusts at April 20, 2004, 4:32 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Bethug
DealerBusts , i wish i can say everything i know, but let me tell you this, if i wanted too i can make micro go bust. Mico did let people win the jackpot, look at playtec and boss, people dont win the jack pot that much there
bethug, PM me if you would like to reveal a little more. thx
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| Posted by: DealerBusts at April 20, 2004, 4:28 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
I think the discussion about what TG said what or cooperated with whom is irrelevant. The point is that there is a statistical anomaly concerning MG's Single Deck BJ which raises concern about whether the game was tampered with before 2003. The statistics collected seem to indicate the possibility.
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| Posted by: greyhound at April 20, 2004, 1:44 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Got2Bet, you are arguing with caruso, but you should be arguing with TG who repeatedly stated that your information is not correct. Are you really trying to say that your 100% reliable source knows better than TG himself?
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| Posted by: caruso at April 19, 2004, 3:13 pm | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
All I claim as fact is what the man has since confirmed himself - both those matters already mentioned above. I don't see anything contentious or otherwise disputable. Well over a year's worth of data had been gathered before MG knew anything, and if an offer of "assistance" was supposed to find its way through then it met with some remarkable obstacles, since we are now informed that MG, far from being cooperative, were apparently entirely unhelpful - understandably so, in the circumstances.
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at April 19, 2004, 12:18 pm | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
I find it highly strange that you can claim "fact" when you are not privy to the information. And I find it even more strange that you can make claims on behalf of TrueGambler, who as you can see is able to respond for himself.
Whether or not the offer actually made reached TG in the end is uncertain - but as I have already stated, my source is 100% reliable. So you may be privy to what TrueGambler has said to you in the past - but you cannot know all the circumstances so please try to confirm your information before claiming "facts".
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| Posted by: Bethug at April 19, 2004, 11:49 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
DealerBusts , i wish i can say everything i know, but let me tell you this, if i wanted too i can make micro go bust. Mico did let people win the jackpot, look at playtec and boss, people dont win the jack pot that much there
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| Posted by: caruso at April 19, 2004, 11:15 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
I'm not privy to any of your private correspondence, G2B. I don't claim to be.
The fact remains that the project was up and running and gathering data before Microgaming knew anything about it. And the fact remains also that, in addition to knowing when he informed MG about the existence of the project, it's fair to say that TG should also have a pretty good idea about whether or not they offered assistance or even were in the remotest bit cooperative. Evidently they were not - on either front.
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| Posted by: DealerBusts at April 19, 2004, 9:47 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Bethug
i believe mirco is fair now, but in the pass i will bet my house on it, it was not, and off of cheating people with fixed games, they was able to profit and now have big pockets, where they dont have to cheat.
Some of the stats show a significanty higher HA before 2003 and significantly lower HA from 2003 onwards. Coincidence? I don't think so. I don't think they rigged it much in the past, maybe roughly doubled the HA.
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| Posted by: TrueGambler at April 19, 2004, 9:21 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Assistance was never offered. We did approach MGS, several times, and they were not interested in working with us in any manner. We received assistance with getting the information to the correct people at MGS, but MGS was in no way willing to assist.
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at April 19, 2004, 8:59 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Assistance was offered through two middlemen to you, TG. The offer was never taken up, or perhaps was ignored. MGS were aware of the OCA product not necessarily BEFORE collection started - but at a ery early stage.
As for the logs - that's entirely separate and no, no agreement was reached.
Caruso - you don't know what you are talking about. You would have had to been privy to some really private information in order to have any idea.
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| Posted by: TrueGambler at April 19, 2004, 4:53 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Collection using the OCA was started long before MGS was aware of the product. MGS never offered any assistance with collecting data.
I think what Got2Bet is alluding to is a conversation we had a long time ago, when MGS offered to let their logs to be reviewed independantly by one of the large accounting firms. We had some conversations with Got2Bet in regards to doing an analysis that did not go anywhere because of some differences of opinion on how the data could be analyzed.
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| Posted by: caruso at April 19, 2004, 2:42 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
It's you who doesn't know what he's talking about, my friend. The OCA data collection process was well in operation before Microgaming learnt about it. That is a fact. You are misinformed. I think it's safe to say that TrueGambler knows when he started the operation and when Microgaming were informed about its existence, don't you?
Are Microgaming saying to you "we always knew about it, we just didn't tell Truegambler we knew, tee hee hee"?
LOL.
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at April 18, 2004, 10:35 pm | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Depending on who you talked to at Lateshift, either they have forgotten that the message was not passed directly to them, or they have forgotten altogether because they don't feel like having more salt rubbed into their wounds - but my source is 100% reliable.
Caruso - you don't know what you're talking about in this instance so please stay out of it.
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| Posted by: DealerBusts at April 18, 2004, 2:39 pm | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet
Likely false - since MG knew about the OCA project before it started. Not only that, but MG representatives welcomed the project and actually offered assistance through a third party to TrueGambler on how to collect data.
What is your source? I contacted some representatives from Lateshift Inc, the developers of the software and they tell me they were never in contact with MG nor did MG have any input into the design of the software.
What i find disturbing is that there seems to be a lid kept on things. For example the OCA stats software downloaded from the TrueGambler website did not work. Someone from lateshift had to email me a fresh copy of the setup files. Also there seems to be no publicity regarding the software. Its as if TrueGambler is not looking to promote it at all.
I have seems some of the stats. They have even worked out the HA for hands that have been played optimally. There are one or two fishy things th... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Bethug at April 18, 2004, 10:16 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
I agree with you caruso, not trying to start a fight with webmasters. But i know caruso a player like me, and we real players no when things are just fishy.
i believe mirco is fair now, but in the pass i will bet my house on it, it was not, and off of cheating people with fixed games, they was able to profit and now have big pockets, where they dont have to cheat.
Stanley, rtg, intercasino, global player, i can play like i am land.
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| Posted by: caruso at April 18, 2004, 8:35 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet
Likely false - since MG knew about the OCA project before it started. Not only that, but MG representatives welcomed the project and actually offered assistance through a third party to TrueGambler on how to collect data.
Where did you get that from? Microgaming? It's quite incorrect. The OCA experiment was well underway before they got wind of it. Not sure of the exact dates, but I can maybe find them. I think it was around January 2003.
You conjure up a delightful "godfatherly" image of dear old Microgaming, all-knowing and assistance-offering; how could these magnificent people EVER contemplate cheating? LOL.
I think the reality is different.
Hopefully TG will eventually get around to performing a full analysis of the data on which only those initial tests have to date been performed. I entirely agree with the poster about the single deck game being fixed before they realized they were being watc... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at April 17, 2004, 11:26 pm | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
I also suspect that MG manipulated the odds with their old single deck BJ. They may have fixed it after TrueGambler went public with their OCA software and revealed they had been collecting data about BJ.
Likely false - since MG knew about the OCA project before it started. Not only that, but MG representatives welcomed the project and actually offered assistance through a third party to TrueGambler on how to collect data.
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| Posted by: DealerBusts at April 17, 2004, 7:07 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Bethug
Most major casinos seem to be dealing a fair game, except playtec.
Very true and i think that is how they can offer huge bonuses. I also suspect that MG manipulated the odds with their old single deck BJ. They may have fixed it after TrueGambler went public with their OCA software and revealed they had been collecting data about BJ.
I personally think RTG blackjack is streaky but fair. I've had 3 BJ in a row and even more shockingly 4 in a row, in less than 1000 hands of RTG BJ. Now what are the odds of that??!
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| Posted by: Bethug at April 17, 2004, 6:55 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
I have had no problems with phoenician black jack or any rtg black jack.
I just lose like mad at cool cat casino and i would say that was normal play.
Most major casinos seem to be dealing a fair game, except playtec.
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| Posted by: onemorebet at April 17, 2004, 5:50 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Same experience for me at most RTG casinos.The dealer gets lots of 20's and 21's.I have played a lot there and I suspect cheating myself.I have player logs where the dealer won 15 hands in a row and 3 straight hands of the ery sames cards.That being 4 cards totalling 21.I had 20 every time.Not saying phonecian is the only one because its all of the RTG.Only way I know how to get any winnings is to be lucky and bet big and win 2 or 3 in a row which is rare.The BJ used to be more winnable but not anymore.
I ABSOLUTELY agree. I used to win a bit in BJ at this casino when they first announced the instant payouts. Actually that is why I went to this casino and it did seem fair for a while. But now WAY to many 20’s or natural 21’s for the dealer.
It has to be fixed, but again like any other casino this can never be proven, which is a shame. Until I hear/read about some good experiences in BJ from other players I won’t play there again.
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| Posted by: Blackjackdaddy at April 17, 2004, 12:15 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Same experience for me at most RTG casinos.The dealer gets lots of 20's and 21's.I have played a lot there and I suspect cheating myself.I have player logs where the dealer won 15 hands in a row and 3 straight hands of the ery sames cards.That being 4 cards totalling 21.I had 20 every time.Not saying phonecian is the only one because its all of the RTG.Only way I know how to get any winnings is to be lucky and bet big and win 2 or 3 in a row which is rare.The BJ used to be more winnable but not anymore.
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| Posted by: gamblinboi at April 16, 2004, 4:16 am | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
hm, you had 750. that's 7.5 units at 100 a hand. if you expect to be able to sit down at any casino table with 7-8 units and play for any more than a few minutes, yer crazy.
next time try much smaller bets (eg, $5-10) and see how it goes. but remember RTG plays VERY quick so it's EASY to do something like 400 hands an hour, if not more..
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| Posted by: dirtystockbird2 at April 15, 2004, 7:46 pm | | Topic: Hello Phoenician--Goodbye Phoenician Forum: Winner Online |
Well my experience did not last long there and I guess its back to Casino on Net....I tried to take advantage of the 500 bonus with a 1000 deposit, but they would not allow more than a 500 initial deposit....I did try to chat with a cashier but waited and waited and waited....
I proceeded to deposit 500 with the 250 bonus....aI was betting 50-100 a hand and quickly lost after a fury of 20's and 21's by the dealer....So the gambler degenerate in me deposited the remaining 250 while betting 25 a hand and it may have lasted 5 mins? So my Phoenician experience lasted about 10-15 mins after about a week of selecting them through research....
Good things to say? I do like the graphics, but I don't like having immediate access to game history, although I could contact CS. Also the 9% charge from netteller sux too....I'm assuming the immediate withdrawl is ery nice, but the hot @ss dealer didn't give me a shot...but I have experienced this at other casinos, although the amount of 20's and BJs we... | | Read Entire Entry |
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