| Posted by: Gamblegirl at August 25, 2004, 10:58 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by stickyone
If online gaming were okay with casinos, don't you think we would see websites like Bellagiopoker.com etc.
We have seen such sites, although not open to americans.
Quote:
The truth is, I think the casinos want internet gaming to die a slow painful death.
The truth is they want their cut.
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| Posted by: stickyone at August 25, 2004, 10:54 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
About the Texas thing:
If it can be proven that the industry can be clean and that it will not attract a crime element to the state and will generate potential billions, then Texas including the Baptists and conservative should have no problem with it. That was the way it went down with horse racing and the lottery anyway.
While most Baptists do not dance, they have been spotted in Vegas Casinos and online in my office playing betting games on their computers. They may indeed be sinning in their estimation, but it must not be a mortal one.
As far as what state starts it first, it really doesn't matter as long as it is done correctly. A major conflict of interest in Nevada is the fact that State endorsemant might be an affront to the Casino industry which is huge. They could potentially iew it as a threat to their business, so Nevada might not be the immediate choice for this obvious reason. If online gaming were okay with casinos, don't you think we would see websites li... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at August 25, 2004, 3:15 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
QUOTE At this point, since MG casinos are powered by a RNG that eCOGRA is confortable with and since PWC already audits (subject for another post) the results, eCOGRA rubber stamps any MG casino application. Just like Safebet did with RTG casinos. UNQUOTE
Another totally unsubstantiated assumption, I'm afraid Thrill. If readers are happy to accept this sort of unbacked allegation then we will never move forward.
I don't know about you, but at arious times and events I have actually spoken to some of the operators whose casinos have been put through the inspection wringer, and they would certainly not agree this was any sort of shew-in, or "rubber stamp" but a serious examination of procedures, systems and probity with which they had to fully comply. In one case I was told that an operation was failed and had to rectify the offending systems before undergoing a further inspection. And there are reviews at irregular intervals determined by the outsourced inspection regime. ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: greedygirl at August 25, 2004, 2:52 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
"My question is, if the Navada Gaming Commmission took over eCOGRA today, would they approve casinos with a questionable history?"
I'd be surprised if even a few of the most reputable online casinos could pass the rigors of the Nevada Gaming Commission. Every aspect of an owners background would be under a microscope--and that is the easy part. The owners financial status would be picked apart, down to the last penny. Should the owner hold up to that end, the amount of money required by the Nevada Gaming Commission (to operate the casino) would be exhorbitant.
Having said this, I don't want anyone thinking that I'm being negative or distrusting of the many reputable online gaming establishments--this is not at all what I'm saying. Nor should anyone read anything more into what I've said, then what is there. What I'm trying to (fumblingly) articulate is that the Nevada Gaming Commission is one of the toughest government agencies in the US. The a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at August 24, 2004, 9:18 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
digikk - we've got an appointment in Vegas in October. Don't get lost!
Rather than defending eCOGRA, I am just pointing out that this is an organization that I am willing to give extra time to because the reputation of its directors and management have been well-proven in the past.
In the end, an organization must be able to deliver what the public is looking for - so you might call eCOGRA my main hope for achieving this goal.
Sticky and Bart - by all means, I think any impetus towards something like that would be welcomed. But I'm afraid Gamblegirl is right - Texas is probably the most unlikely of all states - bar Utah - where online gambling will be legalized. But I do agree that regulation could take place at the state level rather than at the federal level.
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| Posted by: digikk at August 24, 2004, 9:17 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
"My question is, if the Navada Gaming Commmission took over eCOGRA today, would they approve casinos with a questionable history?"
That was exactly what I was wondering. I even went to the Nevada Gaming Commission website, but only figured out I can apply online to work for them....now thats a mutually scary thought. Does anyone know this answer? I am assuming it might boil down to the question of: Is the casino under new management? If not, one can only hope they are not being given a second chance on our (the players) dime. After all, if the second chance proves to be a mistake once again, the players are the ones suffering the monetary losses. That is possibly why some players with absolutely no ested interests, just wanting to play and get paid, are leery of endorsing casinos the second time around. I have no problem with second chances, get them and give them all the time, but when it starts affecting personal pocket books, it does give one pause.
"One fin... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Thrill at August 24, 2004, 1:55 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet
Some small points...
They're not even 2 years old yet They've still got some growing to do, and they're still learning as they go - but it is absolutely impossible to compare eCOGRA to the other purported watchdogs since neither Safebet nor the OPA nor any of the other wannabees have come anywhere near the amount of development eCOGRA has done... nor published any policies... nor done anything but yap everytime someone kicks them in the rear.
Actually, according to register.com their domain was registered Aug. 14, 2001 which at least makes the idea 3 years old But that's not my point.
My question is, if the Navada Gaming Commmission took over eCOGRA today, would they approve casinos with a questionable history?
I think we're all for the idea of an eCOGRA but until they're ready to enforce their written policies; as a group they're no more effective than Safebet. After all, Safebet also had a code of con... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at August 24, 2004, 9:29 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
40% tax is too high for the big boys (pdf)
Rip Off Britain will charge anything up to 40% if they can get away with it.
The UK Govt is a slow moving, nion impossible to turn Super Tanker. Ecogra can be quick, mobile and if fast enough to react could gain more credence than any govt authority. The choice is theirs.
Ecogra also have designs on sports books, poker and bingo.
If Ecogra refuse to take on board unresolved (granted almost prehistoric) problems for players then they are going the way of the Super Tanker and that I am afraid is another point of possible paranoia for an old cynic like me.
The rules had better be there for the sake of the player and not for them to hide behind. Too harsh a critique? Most likely but the point is alid.
I worry when the Govt is in charge and I worry when an Ecgra is in charge. It just always ends up with the player getting the ****end of the stick.
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| Posted by: Gamblegirl at August 24, 2004, 9:28 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet
This could well be true. But the hold has nothing to do with the bet - if you pay 2% on every bet made, you're toast. But paying 15-25% of the hold is certainly an option.
True enough. I believe I also saw a proposal for a 15% tax on the gross revenue, but this may have been for online bookmakers.
And Texas would be my last guess for approving online gambling. The climate is just hostile to online and brick and mortar casino's. Obviously Nevada and New Jersey have both the most to gain and to lose and are therefore the most interested.
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| Posted by: bart at August 24, 2004, 8:41 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by stickyone
All,
Well, this thread has certianly taken a productive turn since the original flame by Mahmed.
I would like to thank him for him his impetus at least.
No-one probabley cares, but I live in Texas. Within the last few years, our state has the dubious distinction of turning up its nose on several attempts at legalized gaming in all forms.
Good luck. I live in Texas. And I am active in politics here.
Gaming revenue is obvious. But the Baptist sort of don't get it. PM me and I would be glad to echo some initiative along this line.
bart
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| Posted by: stickyone at August 24, 2004, 8:18 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
All,
Well, this thread has certianly taken a productive turn since the original flame by Mahmed.
I would like to thank him for him his impetus at least.
No-one probabley cares, but I live in Texas. Within the last few years, our state has the dubious distinction of turning up its nose on several attempts at legalized gaming in all forms. We have even closed down a perfectly legitimate operation by a native american tribe near El Paso.
It has taken many years to get legalized horse racing and a lottery in this state, but it was finally accomplished through political incrementalism and the state benefits greatly from the revenue generation stream.
My idea is to take the following to my current State Senator who will run it up the flagpole and find out who will salute it:
1. A proposition to provide domicile for online gaming establishments provided they meet a set of stringent regulatory requirements set forth by this state.
2. I... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at August 24, 2004, 6:50 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
Naw. Worse than the donkeys are the elephants. :-)
LMAO - nice one - not what I had intended, but you can certainly make a case for that!
Maybe I should have used a non-partisan term... like hyenas...
Quote:
Casino on Net holds 85% of every $100
This could well be true. But the hold has nothing to do with the bet - if you pay 2% on every bet made, you're toast. But paying 15-25% of the hold is certainly an option.
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| Posted by: bart at August 24, 2004, 6:14 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
[QUOTE=Got2Bet]The Interactive Gaming Council (http://www.igcouncil.org) is the industry organization responsible for organizing lobbying efforts in Washington... Can more be done? Probably. The biggest obstacle at present is that the donkeys in the Senate and the House do not really listen - they are only concerned with making a name for themselves and having some "cause" to hang their hats on.
QUOTE]
Naw. Worse than the donkeys are the elephants. :-)
bart
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| Posted by: Gamblegirl at August 24, 2004, 5:55 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet
These, however, are more particular to sportsbetting - I think as far as online casinos go we haven't heard ery much, nor would they be amenable to a 2% tax on bets since their edge is much lower than a sportsbook who usually takes 10% juice.
I believe it was Vahe Baloulian who mentioned that Casino on Net holds 85% of every $100, a telling statistic of the nature of the gambling done there. A normal Vegas casino is quite happy with 20%. The larger online casino's are doing ery well indeed.
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at August 24, 2004, 4:59 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
BTW David Carruthers at BetonSports and Mark Blandford at Sportingbet have also been aggressive in calling for regulation rather than banning and pointing out the disadvantages of the latter.
Yes, David has been quite ocal as well - not sure I've seen anything from Cole at BoDog but it wouldn't surprise me. And of course Mark Blandford wants to pay taxes - like many others would be happy to do.
Quote:
rather low 2% taxation rate
Umm... way too low, unless this is a 2% betting tax levied on all bets, which I think is fine but could see it going up a bit. Other numbers I have heard are as much as 15% of net revenue.
These, however, are more particular to sportsbetting - I think as far as online casinos go we haven't heard ery much, nor would they be amenable to a 2% tax on bets since their edge is much lower than a sportsbook who usually takes 10% juice. So certainly this issue needs to be explored further but truthfully the... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Gamblegirl at August 24, 2004, 4:15 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
I wouldn't paint too rosy a picture on the issue of taxation just yet. As with any businessmen anywhere taxation rates can be a contentious issue. Look at what is happening in the UK with the proposed gambling reforms, specifically on remote gambling. The Interactive Gaming, Gambling and Betting Association (iGGBA) has recommended a rather low 2% taxation rate while undoubtedly the Labour government will look for something much higher.
Quote:
Andrew Tottenham, chairman of iGGBA states that "the UK will only be able to attract foreign remote gambling business, if its tax rates are globally competitive. More importantly it is critical to offer UK consumers the choice of using a UK-licensed service which comes with strong social responsibility and consumer protection".
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| Posted by: Jetset at August 24, 2004, 3:23 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Cole Turner at Bodog group has also been ociferous. These are off the top of my head - I'm sure with a little research many requests for US regulation will be apparent from this industry.
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| Posted by: Jetset at August 24, 2004, 3:19 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
I can only applaud Spearmaster's factual posts here and urge readers to get the facts before they make the judgements.
BTW David Carruthers at BetonSports and Mark Blandford at Sportingbet have also been aggressive in calling for regulation rather than banning and pointing out the disadvantages of the latter.
I totally agree with Spear's iew that the majority of well run and quality casinos (and we tend to lose sight of many of those in the daily hurley burley of complaints) would be only too happy to see Nevada style regulation which would entail taxation, but also free access to the US market in an open and honest way that most businessmen (yes, even those in this industry despite the assumptions!) prefer.
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| Posted by: Got2Bet at August 23, 2004, 11:25 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
The Interactive Gaming Council (http://www.igcouncil.org) is the industry organization responsible for organizing lobbying efforts in Washington. In addition, some of their executive board have testified in Washington in the past about the merits of legalization. Most, if not all, of the large and well-established online casinos are members of IGC.
A lot of what they do unfortunately takes place behind the scenes - I have given them some small advice in the past but really unable to do much as I do not have the resources that many of their members do. Still, I know a number of their executive board and am always able to assist if needed.
Sportingbet took out a full-page ad sometime in the past two years in the Washington Post, with the headline "Please, Mr. Bush, can we pay taxes" or something to that effect. They are one of admittedly few operators who have made an effort on their own behalf.
http://washington.bizjournals.com/w...13/daily16.html
Cas... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: stickyone at August 23, 2004, 1:20 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Right on then, Got2Bet:
Let's get started and clean up this industry before it is tarnished beyond repair by a few rogues. Let's get the top ten clean(if you can find 10) on-line casinos to lobby congress FOR regulation.
I'll support it with my time and donations. What about you?
Sounds easy on its face, but I am sure that the industry is not prepared to back their own federal regulation right now. If it were really on the wish list of the industry, you would think there would be more publicity and/or chatter surrounding it. If there is, I have not been able to find one major online casino or "platformer" in support federal regulation.
Finally, your point about regulation makes a lot of common sense concerning those safe operators who are losing business because of the general distrust of online gaming. I suppose a real trade association comprised of only good guys is the most likely answer to get laws and regs passed. If it is worth it in the long r... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Got2Bet at August 23, 2004, 12:28 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Some small points...
Quote:
My concern about eCOGRA has and continues to be their willingness to approve casinos based solely on their MicroGaming platform.
Don't forget that Casino On Net is also a member. But the point is taken and I know Jetset and myself and undoubtedly a few others have urged eCOGRA to take the mission to the other software providers rather than waiting for the other software providers to come knocking. I sincerely hope that there will be some new members from other software providers soon.
Quote:
In addition, in their 3-year history
They're not even 2 years old yet They've still got some growing to do, and they're still learning as they go - but it is absolutely impossible to compare eCOGRA to the other purported watchdogs since neither Safebet nor the OPA nor any of the other wannabees have come anywhere near the amount of development eCOGRA has done... nor published any policies... nor done anything but yap everytim... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Thrill at August 23, 2004, 9:10 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset
Thrill, that was a rather abrupt response I made earlier and I apologise (too early in the morning and no coffee!)
Jetset,
I wasn’t offended by your short response and I’m certainly not offended by your opinions. I understand where your opinion is coming from and you certainly seem better informed than me regarding eCOGRA.
My concern about eCOGRA has and continues to be their willingness to approve casinos based solely on their MicroGaming platform. The result is that, like Safebet, they’re becoming a rubber stamp accreditation rather than an industry watchdog. The fact they don’t require a clean record going into the Approval Process speaks olumes about how selective they are.
In addition, in their 3-year history they’ve never tackled any of the tough issues that surround their industry. Some of the issues I think need to be addressed are SPAM, bonus t/c abuse, player rights and casino ownership transparency.... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: stickyone at August 23, 2004, 8:42 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Jetset and Alll,
I will take your advice and read over the information at the ECOGRA website.
I can't help but believe that what I will find there is what I have already assumed, however I have an open mind and will look for the "silver lining".
Can anyone give any specific examples of instances where ECOGRA has made a big difference to the internet gaming consumer? I would like to know the specific infraction and the subsequent penalty that ensued. If they are making a difference then more power to them. Literally, they should have more power until something real replaces or augments their efforts.
My approach here is relatively simple. Show me anything that in any way dictates that the gaming industry rogues are at all concerned with what these pseudo-regualtory bodies do and I will try to compromise my position.
My beleif is that they are most certainly not at all concerned with possible penalties because real penalties just do not exist for ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: dominique at August 23, 2004, 8:20 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
To counter this, there really ought to be a players union partnered with reputable portals and watchdogs.
Thank you Bart.
While I am ery much in favor of egogra, I still would like to see a union of players and portals.
Such a group would be ery powerful. Without players and portals the casinos are nothing.
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| Posted by: bart at August 23, 2004, 6:29 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset
The thing is, that none of us know what this lone, anonymous poster's problem was/is because he or she has not provided any specifics that can be checked and dealt with in a fair and open manner.
He or she has not PM'd in response to a serious offer to try and help that is now three days old, despite the fact that he/she has been here and has seen those offers...
As I said earlier here I am no longer going to waste everyone's time and patience with repetitive posts about eCOGRA.
I have posted in what I believe is a factual manner what I think eCOGRA is all about and tried to assuage some of the almost paranoid doubts about its intentions...
Last things first. Players should be paranoid. This is an industry response and that is good, but it is still an industry response.
To counter this, there really ought to be a players union partnered with reputable portals and watchdogs. We have watchdogs now, but it i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jetset at August 23, 2004, 1:09 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
The thing is, that none of us know what this lone, anonymous poster's problem was/is because he or she has not provided any specifics that can be checked and dealt with in a fair and open manner.
He or she has not PM'd in response to a serious offer to try and help that is now three days old, despite the fact that he/she has been here and has seen those offers. And yet it has started another eCOGRA bashing fest and the dredging up of past posts that have nothing to do with MAhmed's issue as far as I can see.
As I said earlier here I am no longer going to waste everyone's time and patience with repetitive posts about eCOGRA.
I have posted in what I believe is a factual manner what I think eCOGRA is all about and tried to assuage some of the almost paranoid doubts about its intentions. There is a site at www.ecogra.org for new people here like stickyone to isit and then draw their own conclusions, or email the organisation if they have any questions.
Readers her... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: bart at August 22, 2004, 10:24 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Bet
I disagree. GR cannot hide behind the eCOGRA seal if they have not resolved all legitimate complaints, period.
I also disagree. If the complaint was alid prior to the seal it is alid today. The player should be able to submit his complaint to eCOGRA for disposition.
For example, should a casino have oided winnings when terms are complied with, that is a theft. The theft is still continuing until rectified. By not resolving the complaint, the casino renews the infraction.
A complaint should become actionable at the point eCOGRA becomes aware of a specific infraction. However, eCOGRA should not have to investigate non specific postings that are old other than their normal due diligence. They should just have an understanding with the casino that they expect them to deal fairly with their custormers in the present no matter when an actual transaction took place.
bart
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| Posted by: dominique at August 22, 2004, 4:44 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Yeh Max, lol, my post is sitting there without any kind of connection to anything that was said. LOL!
It's ok though.
Quote:
I don't rate the poster Mahmood who has upped and left, without continuing with his complaint. Just sounds not right to me.
Joeyl is totally right. And this is what my post referred to.
Mahmood just stirred up a bunch of s#!t and then left without taking advantage of the offers to help.
Makes no sense. Makes me question Mahmood's intention and by extention the whole thread.
Even if some interesting things have been said, I just hate to see us manipulated into threads like this by plants.
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| Posted by: stickyone at August 22, 2004, 3:23 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
All,
This is exactly why pseudo-regulation does not work.
What real authority do they have to resolve complaints either as advocates for the industry or consumers? Admittedly I am not all that familiar with how they came into being, but they seem to be a glorified trade association.
Someone please explain to me how ECOGRA regulation has any teeth? What can they really do to place sanctions against "rogue" internet gaming operations? I think it is a misguided waste of time for people to even begin to imagine that groups like ECOGRA will ever have the ability to clean up this terribly flawed industry.
The answer is real regulation and not "Mickey Mouse" regulation. There need to be laws, not just some sort of group that accepts members because they are willing to adopt a credo of sorts. When an internet gaming operation blatantly breaks the law, under what statutes or regulations are they punishable. I think the answer is NONE most likely. Li... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Gamblegirl at August 22, 2004, 3:20 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Before we start rehashing what has already been said umpteen times by others here are as Jetset suggested the most pertinent threads about this issue, in all their glory.
http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=15941
http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=15996
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| Posted by: joeyl at August 22, 2004, 2:15 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
I don't rate the poster Mahmood who has upped and left, without continuing with his complaint. Just sounds not right to me.
That said, if Ecogra are not interested in complaints from before the seal giving date, then well.
They effectively leave themselves open to having a sealed casino operating with the full knowledge there are unhappy players about, who may well have been treated badly by a sealed casino.
Which is just wonderful and in my opinion contradictory to the wording on the website (and i don't mean the coverall legal disclaimer).
Quote:
eCOGRA Mission
The objective of eCOGRA is to be an independent entity that provides important player protections to consumers, including that operators are honest, games are fair, monetary deposits are safe and winning bets are paid in a timely manner.
I hope Ecogra take a look at this policy and follow Jetsets lead. (Jetset has offered to step in where Ecogra have ducked out right?) It's... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: max at August 22, 2004, 9:54 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
The off-topic portion of this thread has been split off and can be found under the heading "Ecogra masking rogues? (the off-topic bits)" at http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=17097
Unfortunately the split turned out to be a bit of a mess. My apologies for any confusion this may cause.
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| Posted by: Gamblegirl at August 22, 2004, 9:17 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset
"It is also a gamble...."
Not as far as I am concerned, and I do have the right to express a personal opinion in this matter, GG - as strong a right as your own.
Are we not in agreement about this?
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| Posted by: Jetset at August 22, 2004, 9:07 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
"It is also a gamble...."
Not as far as I am concerned, and I do have the right to express a personal opinion in this matter, GG - as strong a right as your own.
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| Posted by: Jetset at August 21, 2004, 2:29 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Thanks for posting that MAhmed, but surely eCOGRA's ability to discipline a Seal casino is dependent on when that casino submitted itself to their authority?
If your issue took place after GR's accreditation, then you can clearly insist on them accepting and resolving a complaint. However, if your problem occurred prior to the accreditation then the beef is with the casino.
Did GR ignore your complaint, or did they respond and reject it? If so what were their grounds for doing so?
I ask as an experienced mediator because if you have been screwed on this I would like to offer my help in resolving it?
If you prefer to discuss the issue in private please PM me and I'll have a look at the facts and see what can be done.
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| Posted by: MAhmed at August 21, 2004, 1:27 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
I am disappointed with your inaccurate and unfair post at http://mb.winneronline.com/post99368, as none of the links you sent me relate to a alid complaint since the Seal was awarded. Should you find any recent complaints, I will be happy to investigate them further.
Kind Regards,
Tex Rees
-------------------
So they only deal in problems since April 2004! Wish they had that on their website it would help. Thanks for your help Jetset its appreciated.
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| Posted by: Jetset at August 20, 2004, 11:18 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Schankwart
To be honest I am not sure what Golden Riviera's MOST recent developments were but I have been a player with them for like 2 years up unil a bout a couple months ago and have been offered nothing but pain from them in the meantime.
I have stopped playing their Casinos after I realized it was not worth the hassles.
I would be VERY surprised if they have cleaned up their act as their history so far is long & sad.
Getting back on topic....:-)
As I said, Schankie that is a matter of personal opinion which is possibly shared by others from GR's pre-Seal days.
I still don't applaud the manner in which business was conducted back then, and I doubt that I would have had the patience to stay with them as long as yourself. But is this operation to be totally excluded in spite of its efforts to improve itself? That's a personal decision.
I am looking at the facts, because this thread was started a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Schankwart at August 20, 2004, 2:01 pm | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
To be honest I am not sure what Golden Riviera's MOST recent developments were but I have been a player with them for like 2 years up unil a bout a couple months ago and have been offered nothing but pain from them in the meantime.
I have stopped playing their Casinos after I realized it was not worth the hassles.
I would be VERY surprised if they have cleaned up their act as their history so far is long & sad.
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| Posted by: Jetset at August 20, 2004, 8:58 am | | Topic: Ecogra masking rogues? Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by EATON ROAD KILL
Jetset,
Are you part of ecogra? Do you have anything to do with the acceptance of the casinos by ecogra?
No.
And No.
I do, however have an opinion on eCOGRA.
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