| Posted by: caruso at June 15, 2007, 2:44 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Since they magnanimously pulled the cancer promotional material, Jackpot Factory were back on the "accredited list" at Bailey's. Whatever.
Now, huge payout delays for US players, who have had their communications with the group largely ignored. Jackpot Factory's latest excuse:
Quote:
I spoke to them yesterday too, they said my check would be late too because of 4th of july weekend
This is odd, 4th July being fully three weeks away.
Is there any other industry in which such a plainly rogue operator would be given such staggering leeway and so many breaks? Whitewashed by eCOGRA, accredited by Bailey, pushed by just about every affiliate out there - all in the face of the most staggering promotional campaign of all kind and payment delays now extending to almost six months.
Farcical.
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| Posted by: dominique at October 31, 2006, 5:20 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
It was gross negligence on someone's part. First they should have been more discerning when hiring someone to do a campaign, they should have gotten writing samples and recognized the trash. Then they should have had proper supervision during the campaign and caught that crap early on.
By the time it was exposed it had permeated everything and became a nightmare to remove.
Really bad management in the marketing department and should be a lesson to all.
Running an online casino isn't just throwing a nice face on some software and funding it. It is a full fledged business with many facets and any of them can get screwed up if the operator fails to hire competent, ethical staff.
This made such a splash though that I think it drove this point home to many.
Still, on the customer service end these casinos have handled themselves well and I'd much rather see people play there than at Cirrus or the like.
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| Posted by: Jetset at October 30, 2006, 9:50 pm | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by theguru
I wonder if the 25k donation is equal to the amount of profit generated by those nefarious adds?
That is something we will never know, but I would suggest that it does not detract from the fact that they chose to make this donation - probably prompted by the numerous iews of players that this would be appropriate under the circumstances as an act of contrition.
As to lying, my understanding from the prolific posting on this scandal at the time was that these dreadful and poorly written things kept cropping up (often found by players and rightfully highlighted) for some time...but that any examples that surfaced were immediately excised.
Don't mistake my presenting the other side of the coin here as support for JF; what happened here was exceptionally bad online casino practice any way you cut it and management must always carry the ultimate responsibility for the activities of the company.
But to my mind they... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: GrandMaster at October 30, 2006, 11:41 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Some of their stories were near top for non-gambling keywords in google.
The manager lied (perhaps even twice) claiming that the stories had been removed when he could have seen with his own eyes that they had not been. I don't like people lying in my face.
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| Posted by: joeyl at October 30, 2006, 10:51 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
The casino did not target the unfortunate I say. The keywords were always slots, online slots and so on. The silly stories were a ehicle to target certain keywords & phrases. Yes I looked and know what they did. The phrase(s) depression cure, cancer cure, were not the agenda and out of the 10'000 pages, a good few were out of order, but not the majority. ....imo.
# I advocated the firm not be blackballed. Hence I agree with the Meister removing his erroneous blackballing/warning/advice/opinion or whatever.
## The firm did not steal from a punter trying too hard to win.
## The firm have cut no half price deals after 1 year of mediation.
## The firm did not crash PC's ia nefarious scumware/adware downloads.
## No blog/comment/inbox spam or popup hell issues I know of.
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| Posted by: dominique at October 30, 2006, 9:00 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetset
OK, then - here are a few more facts for balance:
* JF removed the offending material and dropped the outsourced contractor responsible for this awful campaign. It may not have been removed as fast as many wanted, but it was removed.
* They publicly apologised on two occasions for the nature of the campaign, and their own negligence in not spotting and pulling it sooner.
* They donated $25 000 to a responsible gambling body as a gesture of goodwill.
* In general they have conducted their considerable business with efficiency and there have been few operational complaints about them.
None of this excuses the despicable nature of the campaign itself, and the JF management will have to live with that embarrassment and contempt for some time to come.
That's as it should be as a deterrent to other black hat SEO operatives and their clients.
Excellent post, jetset!
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| Posted by: Jetset at October 30, 2006, 7:48 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
OK, then - here are a few more facts for balance:
* JF removed the offending material and dropped the outsourced contractor responsible for this awful campaign. It may not have been removed as fast as many wanted, but it was removed.
* They publicly apologised on two occasions for the nature of the campaign, and their own negligence in not spotting and pulling it sooner.
* They donated $25 000 to a responsible gambling body as a gesture of goodwill.
* In general they have conducted their considerable business with efficiency and there have been few operational complaints about them.
None of this excuses the despicable nature of the campaign itself, and the JF management will have to live with that embarrassment and contempt for some time to come.
That's as it should be as a deterrent to other black hat SEO operatives and their clients.
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| Posted by: caruso at October 30, 2006, 7:23 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Bonuslover, I cannot police the world. Only my little corner of it.
Quote: Originally Posted by dominique
They are otherwise a good, ethical group and if there is going to be mudslinging, I'd rather see it aimed at dodgy places that don't pay.
1) This group is not "ethical". They demonstrated this with the campaign. That they pay does not make them "ethical". At no point did anyone question their payment procedures, or any procedures other than the one under discussion.
2) Talking about "mudslingling" is out of order. Facts were reported. Where was the "mud", ie. the unsubstantiated criticism? There was none. Reporting factually on facts is not "mudslinging".
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| Posted by: dominique at October 30, 2006, 6:32 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
I basically agree with you, bonuslover.
They did a really really disgusting campaign and they pulled it.
They are otherwise a good, ethical group and if there is going to be mudslinging, I'd rather see it aimed at dodgy places that don't pay. I have a feeling that now, with prohibition in place, we will need to be igilant for those.
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| Posted by: bonuslover at October 29, 2006, 4:30 pm | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
Jackpot Factory is now back on the "accredited casinos" list at Bailey's:
http://www.casinomeister.com/accredited_casino_list.php
I give up.
You know caruso, usually when it comes to bashing a casino I am usually in. However, aside from your disagreement of their advertising tactics, JF runs an otherwise legit business- good bonuses, winners are always paid, good support, fast payments, fair payouts. Perhaps you should give these guys a break. People need to eat and JF earns it fairly.
Regarding the targeting on the ulnerable...if you turn on the TV (I am not sure if this is the case in the UK) in the afternoon you see these christian shows with some crooked priests doing miracles and $hits and many women (senior ones) are donating their life savings through them 1800 numbers on the screen. That's life. If you have to complain about every single dodgy thing on earth you are wasting your time.
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| Posted by: caruso at October 26, 2006, 2:44 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Jackpot Factory is now back on the "accredited casinos" list at Bailey's:
http://www.casinomeister.com/accredited_casino_list.php
I give up.
This group targetted the terminally ill and the bereaved with a year long SEO campaign, and they are now "recommended" by one of the most influential affiliates in the business.
At this point, exactly where is a player supposed to go to get accurate information about casino malpractice?
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| Posted by: kwblue at August 9, 2006, 8:46 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
I agree $25k is not much....
However - At least JF admitted their failure, attempted to pay some sort of restitution, and apologized profusely for it.
Doesn't make it any more right, but at least they are not going down the path of other programs out there like 888.
We have to give them some credit, I think.
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| Posted by: caruso at August 9, 2006, 7:07 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
Jackpot Factory is satisfied that it has received fair and professional treatment from the Compliance Committee in this matter.
No kidding.
Translation: Jackpot Factory would like to thank the Compliance Committee for bending over backwards to fudge the issue to the maximum and paint us in the least nagative light.
"Fair and professional", LMAO. How many cancer operations does 25K pay for?
The Compliance Committee report was an absolute whitewash, based on unsubstantiated and unsubstantiatable claims.
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| Posted by: joeyl at August 9, 2006, 6:21 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
JF donated 25k to Gamcare.
Quote:
A Statement from the Jackpot Factory Group
August 8, 2006 – Kahnawake, Canada – The management of the Jackpot Factory Group was informed yesterday by the Compliance Committee of eCommerce and Online Gaming Regulation and Assurance (eCOGRA) that the suspension of its "Play It Safe" seals is to be lifted with immediate effect. This follows a thorough investigation into the circumstances surrounding an unacceptable search engine optimization campaign in which Jackpot Factory contractors were involved.
The group will be the subject of increased monitoring by eCOGRA to ensure that compliance with new content guidelines, developed with the assistance of eCOGRA and their independent auditors, is maintained.
We have on two occasions expressed our regret at this incident, and our apologies that the campaign was not picked up by our marketing control system before it was released onto the Internet. Those employees respons... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at August 8, 2006, 2:24 pm | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster
My opinion is my private opinion, I am not speaking for WOL in any capacity.
In case there was any doubt, I was joking (somewhat obviously, I thought) on the basis of an earlier comment from Jetset about your apparent lack of "impartiality" in criticising eCOGRA's speed of response.
Of course, I agree with what you say entirely and wasn't criticising in the slightest. Quite the opposite.
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| Posted by: joeyl at August 8, 2006, 2:10 pm | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster
No punishment, no donations to charity, but if this marketing campaign has worked as intended, JF will enjoy the benefits for many years to come. Basically, once a casino gets ecogra certified, it can get away with anything.
I would also like an explanation of the outsourcing business. As I remember, the seo was handled by a related company, Spinspark, who then hired students and bored housewifes as contractors.
You may be advocating a fine amounting to the estimated amount the casino profited, based upon actual pages and estimated traffic/clickthrough/download/future play.. # I would back that.
Recouping all funds gleaned by 888 regarding questionable search engine marketing would no doubt GM, come to millions. # I would back that.
Recouping all funds from Micro casinos and Micro royalties and Ongame regarding questionable spyware marketing and so on the same GM. # I would back that.
For eCOGRA to warrant ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at August 8, 2006, 1:47 pm | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Yup, can you imagine the profit potential of a year's worth of web pages optimised to pull in the kind of traffic Jackpot Factory was targetting?
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster
Basically, once a casino gets ecogra certified, it can get away with anything.
Excuse me, but if it isn't asking too much, could we please have a bit more balance and impartiality from the WOL mods??
(Sorry, brief Jetset moment )
EDIT: JOKE, folks.
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| Posted by: GrandMaster at August 8, 2006, 4:28 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
No punishment, no donations to charity, but if this marketing campaign has worked as intended, JF will enjoy the benefits for many years to come. Basically, once a casino gets ecogra certified, it can get away with anything.
I would also like an explanation of the outsourcing business. As I remember, the seo was handled by a related company, Spinspark, who then hired students and bored housewifes as contractors.
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| Posted by: csnplayer at August 7, 2006, 6:11 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
One sad point is that these type of techniques work…
As long as any content exists including discussions in forums with the Sites name, people will check out that site.
And a month later they will have forgotten the story and stumble across the same site, this time feeling some sort of familiarity therefore ‘giving them a go’ and making a deposit.
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| Posted by: max at August 7, 2006, 5:46 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
FYI:
"eCOGRA COMPLIANCE COMMITTEE REPORT ON JACKPOT FACTORY SEARCH ENGINE ISSUE
On 28 July 2006 the Compliance Committee of eCommerce and Online Gaming Regulation
and Assurance, made up of Mr. W. Galston OBE (Chairman) , Mr. F. Catania and Mr.
M.Hirst OBE, all independent directors of the organization, considered all the facts
regarding an incident in which complaints were received concerning search engine
optimisation practices being conducted by the Jackpot Factory group.
The Committee received a report of an independent and on-site investigation which
had been carried out by external auditors. This covered the circumstances
surrounding the issue, its causes and effects and the remedial actions taken by the
company.
The Committee findings are that:
1) The nature and tenor of the Jackpot Factory search engine optimisation project
was totally unacceptable because of the fictitious and misleading scenarios... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: derelict at August 5, 2006, 11:08 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
I personally felt that they should be allowed to keep the seal once they put an end to the page spewing, but I feel the statement suggests more of a ham fisted desire to appease the mob of critics than any other motivation. As usual, it's written at a ery high level and is relatively uncluttered by meaningful details.
Quote:
However, there was no evidence to show that any individual or group of individuals were harmed or persuaded to indulge in potentially harmful behaviour by the campaign, which represented an important mitigating factor.
Clearly everyone was a winner, and who clicks on first page Google results anyway?
The statement I would prefer to see would be an outline of how eCOGRA plans to police search engine manipulation in the future, but I really don't see how that would be feasable without first dealing with the issue with their sponsor.
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| Posted by: joeyl at August 5, 2006, 10:07 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Interesting to see Ted Loh run the rule so harshly regarding ecogra's decision which is full of irrelevancies and badly worded conjecture.
I also note Ted got away with such comments, without the accusation of "lack of any objective thought".
Ecogra - online gaming's regulatory body is a report that I expect the likes of Spearmaster to find just as misleading regarding wording.
Ecogra's remit is under scrutiny by some of it's strongest supporters and it's about time. There are people here that see problems with ecogra, that have been poo-poohed out of hand. Spearmaster himself, will be ignored, unless he is praising this firm.
It's the way it is. The players seal.
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| Posted by: caruso at August 4, 2006, 1:50 pm | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
It seems we're not alone in being marginally underwhelmed by the Whitewash Trio's efforts to justify JF keeping the eCOGRA...worthless seal whatsit. This was posted by one of the mods in response to the "report" publication at the other site, at the end of a more detailed analysis than my brief effort above:
Quote:
Messrs. Catania, Galston, and Hirst, I respect your positions and past work in the industry and I believe that you feel that you have done the right thing here. I believe all of you are no-nonsense, honest businessmen/contributors and have all played key roles in the development of the online gambling industry.
However, I believe my opinion will represent a majority of observers (though I am only speaking for myself). I believe that you have been mislead and misinformed in order to reach this atrocious decision and I urge you to reconsider, re-investigate, and interview parties outside of Jackpot Factory who may have additional knowledge ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at August 4, 2006, 10:11 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
These are the full points:
Quote:
The Committee findings are that:
1) The nature and tenor of the Jackpot Factory search engine optimisation project was totally unacceptable because of the fictitious and misleading scenarios it portrayed. This had resulted in widespread public disapproval of the campaign.
2) However, there was no evidence to show that any individual or group of individuals were harmed or persuaded to indulge in potentially harmful behaviour by the campaign, which represented an important mitigating factor.
3) Similarly, there is no evidence to suggest that Jackpot Factory management had any deliberate intention to encourage ulnerable persons to participate in gambling activities at group casinos
4) The investigating team report indicates that it is satisfied that the Jackpot Factory claim to have outsourced the project initially is correct. However, the report finds, and Jackpot Factory management conceded that the ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at August 4, 2006, 9:53 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by theguru
And the beat goes on, when will this industry have a "real" regulatory board thats not PAID BY THE CASINOS THEY REGULATE. This may be the most oblivious statement and ruling from the Ecogra to date.
LMAO.
Casinos and casino whitewash organisations bitch about Goodlatte & Co, but seem to take no responsibility for anything whatsoever.
Quote:
there was no evidence to show that any individual or group of individuals were harmed or persuaded to indulge in potentially harmful behaviour by the campaign, which represented an important mitigating factor.
Just unreal. It was up fully one year before it was picked up on. JF were targetting the bereaved, cancer sufferers and slot suckers generally all through that period, and eCOGRA can claim there is no reason to think anyone suffered.
What do they expect, someone who lost their husband, followed by all their money to JF, ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: theguru at August 4, 2006, 9:25 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
From the Findings:
"2) However, there was no evidence to show that any individual or group of individuals were harmed or persuaded to indulge in potentially harmful behaviour by the campaign, which represented an important mitigating factor.
3) Similarly, there is no evidence to suggest that Jackpot Factory management had any deliberate intention to encourage ulnerable persons to participate in gambling activities at group casinos"
Now how does the Ecogra know whether or not anyone who read these stories didnt start gambling online under false pretenses and lose their life savings or develop an addiction thus harming their life?
Also to say they were not trying to pry on the weak is an absurd assertion, did they not read these advsertisments???
And the beat goes on, when will this industry have a "real" regulatory board thats not PAID BY THE CASINOS THEY REGULATE. This may be the most oblivious statement and ruling from the... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: dominique at June 22, 2006, 12:51 pm | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by dominique
Well, 888 recruiters are going around telling prospects not to pay any attention to the rogueing:
Well, despite many attempts to contact John ia eCOGRA, I have never been contacted by 888, exactly the opposite, they avoid me like the plague.
I do have 888 listed on my site, but all links go here: http://www.gamesandcasino.com/888/casino.htm
So much for commissions.
And as far as my account goes - if it's still open I am surprised since I can't login.
Lies, lies, lies.
Plus pacific poker just ran a poker tournie for blackhatters who sell their services, such as targeting a site until google kicks it out, openly on the internet. You can find the link to them in the webmaster section here in the 888 thread.
Ok, I have to eat my words. Some of them ayway.
It appears that 888 did try to contact me and couldn't get past my boxtrapper.
So I am... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Casey Enos at June 22, 2006, 12:32 pm | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by dominique
Lol, JF shows up and makes a statement, and still everyone argues aut eCOGRA.
(ride that wave)
I could be wrong, but that does not look like a new statement at all. In fact it looks like a copy and paste of the same statement made on that other forum several days ago.
Of course to me, its plenty enough to see that they have done everything that was asked of them. I have long ago forgiven them regarding this issue. I have however not forgiven cassava errrrr ecogra one in the same for behavior far worse than what this casino group did.
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| Posted by: Casey Enos at June 22, 2006, 8:31 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by jetset
But I can also understand the eCOGRA position given its goals and resources and I think it is preferable for them to stay focused on the player. That's definitely not a popular iew with the webmasters, but it is one that I hold.
jetset, its normal everyday internet users who are isiting blogs filled with BS 888 promotional junk not affiliates. This is exactly one of the angles of compaint used against JF: the SEO filled the search engines up with non-sense. Well 888 is filling blogs up with non-sense, no, zero, nada difference in promotional goal theory.
jetset, its the players who are receiving advertisement popups on their computers featuring 888, not affiliates! Surely its no secret to you that 888 has been one of the biggest users of malware for a long time.
Quote: Originally Posted by joeyl
# A decent dispute mediation service for sealed casinos.
In 2005, eCOGRA mediated less than 1 dozen legitimate ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at June 22, 2006, 7:42 am | | Topic: Disgraceful Jackpot Factory promotional technique! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Online Casino Reviewer
Then come back to me and have a sensible debate concerning the positives and negatives regarding eCOGRA and their ery important role in the industry.
Until such time this happens. I am out of this thread.
Positives =
# A decent dispute mediation service for sealed casinos.
# Looking out for problem gamblers ia training lessons.
# Insistence upon responsible operator conduct.
You rogued 888 Dave, so did Bryan, you were both right imo.
Funnily enough, arguably similar offences committed as to what FJ have committed, hence the comparison is made, hence the possibility of bias is tabled and so on.
It all stands to reason, are clearly not unreasonable comments by lunatics with in an anti regulation of casinos fringe.
Ibas get no flack OCR, similar enough operation to Ecogra and as you know, Ibas oversee 620 gaming operations. There is a bunch of ery good reasons this Ecogra firm at... | | Read Entire Entry |
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