| Posted by: joeyl at September 25, 2007, 10:15 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
It's a Casino.. Which means players will try to win.
Either the players don't get it, or the industry don't get it.
The likes of any casino, Ecogra or any portal owner that tries to tell people they are not allowed to win as much money as possible, are arguably insisting the player gamble recklessly, brainlessly, ignorantly and so on.
Very ery interesting point made there by Pangloss.
All the while the players laugh at Ecogra and the Meister ends up bowling about playing the annoyed tough guy.
Ridiculously funny stuff, if it were not par for the course in this game.
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| Posted by: caruso at September 25, 2007, 6:51 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
This is worth a copy & paste, from a reliable player / player advocate. The casino is a different one, but the essence is the same: casino pulling the "irregular patterns" screw, eCOGRA supporting them.
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/189552-post44.html
Quote:
Yep. You are missing something. This Casino reneged on a bet.
Here are the terms in question:
"12. Observations of playing patterns such as the playing of equal, zero margin or hedge betting may not be considered as playing in the appropriate spirit for the purposes of meeting bonus wagering requirements. Should the Casino deem that these practices have been utilized for the specific purpose of meeting wagering requirements, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.
13. Other practices of playing behaviour which may lead to the casino withholding cashins and/or confiscating all winnings include, but are not lim... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at September 23, 2007, 9:22 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Ecogra have been around half a decade, and still not got around to telling the software suppliers who fund them, to build software that rejects unwanted bets automatically - thereby allowing the player to actually cash out what the credits total is - without the casino having to check to see if the player should or not be paid.
It's not rocket science, Crypto and Wagerworks manage it - rarely garner disputes.
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| Posted by: bart at September 23, 2007, 7:48 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
That is just silly. I have every respect for anyone who is honest and hard-working, including webmasters. I have every disrespect for online casino affiliates who support rogue practice.
There's a big difference.
It's all over in the USA. I check in just to see how things have progressed and what do I find - FL is up to the same old tricks. And eCOGRA can't see the forrest for the trees. Irregular betting patterns. What nonsense.
If the player loses, does he get his money back? The player wagered. He played the right games. He bet according to his strategy - which is what you do. FL lost. They reneg on the bet... again.
I tell you its like playing hold em and someone makes an inside straight after going all in. Can you imagine the players getting sympathy for yelling - but that was an irregular betting pattern. So stupid.
Speaking of which. I am a big fan of poker for USA players. But not casinos. F... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at August 23, 2007, 9:54 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
Is there no limit to your contempt for honest hard-working webmasters?
That is just silly. I have every respect for anyone who is honest and hard-working, including webmasters. I have every disrespect for online casino affiliates who support rogue practice.
There's a big difference.
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| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 23, 2007, 9:08 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
Thanks for the link to Chez Webcaz, but I fear I won't be revisiting any forums where the webmaster and his sidekick are so grossly irresponsible (I'm assuming your boss is in agreement with you about this). Let the player come here, where he can expect a fair hearing.
I'll just reply to the above bit;
I have no idea whether Webzcas agrees with me or not.
Until he just posted above I had no idea he had even seen this thread.
He is not 'my boss'.
I told you before I do not get paid for helping him zap the spammers & I do not have any affy links on his site.
Is there no limit to your contempt for honest hard-working webmasters?
It's OK - you don't need to answer that.
Please, can you just give it a break now?
I think this nonsense has run it's course.
Thanks.
KK
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| Posted by: Webzcas at August 23, 2007, 7:42 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
Thanks for the link to Chez Webcaz, but I fear I won't be revisiting any forums where the webmaster and his sidekick are so grossly irresponsible (I'm assuming your boss is in agreement with you about this).
Come again Caruso?
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| Posted by: caruso at August 23, 2007, 6:01 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
I did say this on page three:
Quote:
It's more a case of, he didn't play by the "rules", but the "rules" are grossly unfair and unacceptable.
The whole point is about the rule. To say "we reserve the right to rob you" - see my oft-quoted quote...
Quote:
The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play", and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred
...is a rogue rule implemented by a rogue casino.
You support the casino's right to carry this rule, on the basis of "they can have whatever rules they want". Yes, that's your unfortunate priviledge.
Thanks for the link to Chez Webcaz, but I fear I won't be revisiting any forums where the webmaster and his sidekick are so grossly irresponsible (I'm assuming your boss is in agreement with you about this). Let the player come here... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 23, 2007, 4:49 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
I find your responses confused. You say you support their right to carry this rule, but you don't support them when they invoke it rob someone. FL carry this rule, and they invoked it to rob a player. You can't both support and not support them. You in fact support it, and the answer to 2) is "yes".
Of course, you're back to playing your semantic game - you don't support them to "rob", you just support them to "withhold cashouts". This is the same sematic game you've tried to play from the beginning, and it's not getting any more convincing through repetition.
Yes, you are quite right; repeating everything over & over is a total waste of time. You obviously have your personal iew of what is right, fair & proper in this world, and I have mine. Nothing you say will change my mind, and nothing I say will change yours.
Let's just agree to disagree & get on with our lives, shall we?
Th... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at August 22, 2007, 2:06 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
Absolutely right! If only more casino software writers would use the technology available to them, a whole lot of these 'bonus abuse problems' would be instantly eliminated.
KK
Now we're talking.
A player should be able to cash out when it's time to cash out and not before. No bets on barred games, no unwanted bets with a bonus and so on.
In the meantime there'll be another 15 years pass of likely thousands of players a week being denied payment for spurious reason after another, after another.
This refusing payouts almost across the board daily, goes on because it is profitable.
Same reason as the regurgitation of slot after slot with different graphics is profitable.
Same as it is profitable to offer "free" $200 that is not free, to try out the games that one cannot try out, where the freeplay would do that job just fine, in casinos that operate like insurance firms that will ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at August 22, 2007, 2:02 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
I find your responses confused. You say you support their right to carry this rule, but you don't support them when they invoke it rob someone. FL carry this rule, and they invoked it to rob a player. You can't both support and not support them. You in fact support it, and the answer to 2) is "yes".
Of course, you're back to playing your semantic game - you don't support them to "rob", you just support them to "withhold cashouts". This is the same sematic game you've tried to play from the beginning, and it's not getting any more convincing through repetition.
Quote:
I believe that the casinos carry this rule in case clever players or criminal gangs come up with something they haven't thought of before.
Your wording is revealing - you put "clever players" right next to "criminal gangs", and mix them together in the "something new" category. You also think casinos need to be protected agains... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 22, 2007, 12:21 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster
It is up to the casino to write watertight terms. If the casino does not like a particular style of play (e.g. betting large with bonuses), then it should be restricted in the software. The same goes for withdrawals, if the cashier says that your cash balance can be withdrawn at any time, then you should be able to withdraw your cash balance at any time.
Absolutely right! If only more casino software writers would use the technology available to them, a whole lot of these 'bonus abuse problems' would be instantly eliminated.
I have seen this done at a few places:
Rival software has it for sure, and there was a place I played once where if you tried to bet evenly on black & red on roulette it would not spin, and a message came up saying 'no low risk wagers allowed' or something like that. (Can't remember where it was now, but I think it was probably Kismet or Random Logic)
MG are supposed to be the leaders in soft... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: GrandMaster at August 22, 2007, 4:59 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
1) You describe it as a 'rogue rule' and a 'license to steal' that is just your personal opinion - fair enough.
This is my personal opinion: I believe that the casinos carry this rule in case clever players or criminal gangs come up with something they haven't thought of before.
It is up to the casino to write watertight terms. If the casino does not like a particular style of play (e.g. betting large with bonuses), then it should be restricted in the software. The same goes for withdrawals, if the cashier says that your cash balance can be withdrawn at any time, then you should be able to withdraw your cash balance at any time.
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| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 22, 2007, 4:35 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
Quote:
The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play", and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred
As an affiliate, do you 1) support a casino's right to carry this rogue term, the license to steal,
2) support them when they invoke it to rob a player, and
3) support eCOGRA in allowing their casinos to carry and invoke rogue terms?
These require a "yes" or a "no".
I presume those questions were aimed at me? (You didn't actually say!)
I hate it when politicians refuse to say a straight "yes" or "no", but if the questions were like this I would understand!
One out of three is a close as I can get:
1) You describe it as a 'rogue rule' and a 'license to steal' that is just your personal opinion - fair enough.
This is my personal opinion: I believe ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at August 20, 2007, 4:31 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote:
The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play", and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred
As an affiliate, do you 1) support a casino's right to carry this rogue term, the license to steal, 2) support them when they invoke it to rob a player, and 3) support eCOGRA in allowing their casinos to carry and invoke rogue terms?
These require a "yes" or a "no".
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| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 19, 2007, 1:34 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by rkalkul
If you don't like the terms and conditions - don't sign up there.
*****
And is there any normal person in this world that will like these terms in which there is clearly stated that the casino reserves the right to do whatever it wants with the player's funds? In other words, is there any normal person in the world who should EVER sign up at any of the Fortune Lounge casinos? Will you, KasinoKing, assuming that you don't have any Fortune Lounge accounts already opened, will you ever sign up at these casinos and claim their bonus?
Sorry - almost missed your post there!
Your first two questions I think I already answered in my text you quoted.
As per my answer to casuso, nearly all casinos carry some sort of 'we reserve the right to withhold winnings if we don't like something you did' clause. But as caruso said, having the clause there is not the biggest issue, it's if the casino ever acts on such a clause in a way w... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 19, 2007, 12:44 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Joeyl,
For the benefit of others here, this is what the player said in the Maxima case:-
Quote: Originally Posted by joeyl
KK, I notice you think the player at Maxima that cashed out $100 short of the playthrough req having the 1k confiscated, even though it says so in the terms, warrants your support Kasinoking.
I am inclined to agree with you in that instance, but your stance here is different.
If it's in the terms, it's in the terms, I thought was your iew on these matters, regardless whether you think the rule is bollocks or not.
It all comes down to what each of considers is fair & reasonable.
Note that in most cases the casinos state "they reserve the right to invoke their rules" not "they will invoke the rules regardless"
It is down to each casino's management to make a judgment & decide whether they do nor not.
In the Fortune Lounge case (as already stated above), it is my opinion the play... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 19, 2007, 11:12 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Your first reply:-
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
Right about those clauses...
Thank you for answering in a respectful way without resorting to further personal insults and slurs on my character. (Noted that your belief that I am 'rogue affiliate' was express as your opinion, not a actual fact)
This is appreciated.
Your second reply:-
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
Well, that's a bit "ironic"....
You have poked fun & thrown some shyt at me - I was merely returning the favour!
What do you expect me to do - just sit back & take it?
KK
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| Posted by: joeyl at August 19, 2007, 9:30 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Aside the arguements etc.
KK, I notice you think the player at Maxima that cashed out $100 short of the playthrough req having the 1k confiscated, even though it says so in the terms, warrants your support Kasinoking.
I am inclined to agree with you in that instance, but your stance here is different.
If it's in the terms, it's in the terms, I thought was your iew on these matters, regardless whether you think the rule is bollocks or not.
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| Posted by: rkalkul at August 19, 2007, 7:07 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
BTW2: One should acknowledge that the FL rep here has shown good will in discussing this matter, and I had no desire to bring this matter up again in this thread myself. For all I know FL are addressing the issue. I see no reason to have pointlessly bumped this thread when the other less casino-specific thread did just as well.
Unfortunately, at this moment nobody is addressing this issue. I sent an email to Ecogra and asked them to change their decision regarding my case. No reply for 2 weeks. Same with the casino. I think i have no chance to receive those unfairly confiscated 1000$+. I am helpless.
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| Posted by: caruso at August 19, 2007, 3:47 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
I don't want a fight with you or a 'slanging match'.
Well, that's a bit "ironic".
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
No-one else makes me laugh so much.
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
I’ll join in the fun for a moment & pretend your post was supposed to be serious
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
Keep up the good work and keep those jokes coming
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
LOL - the joker's back!
The best one:
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
If anyone is bent around here, it’s you Caruso.
You don't want to fight, you just want to get in a facile, insulting, off topic dig on every possible occasion.
It seems to me you're doing your level best for a fight, and are rather disappointed you're not getting one.
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| Posted by: caruso at August 19, 2007, 3:24 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Right about those clauses. If I ever hear that Omni or COTP pull a stunt, off they'll come. They might come off anyway. I've somewhat abandoned the site, I admit.
You keep going on with this sematic game without once answering the question. One more shot:
Quote:
The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play"...and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred
This, in all real senses, means "we reserve the right to rob you", because it states that they will iew any playing style as an excuse to so do. Flat bet £1, flat bet £250 or any ariation, they reserve the right to rob you. There is no way of playing that FL will not possibly iew as an excuse to rob you. Not one.
So, the casino reserves the right to rob the player as per this term based on however you bet. Do you support this right? If so, why? Never mind that "these aren't the exact wo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: rkalkul at August 19, 2007, 1:58 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
If you don't like the terms and conditions - don't sign up there.
*****
And is there any normal person in this world that will like these terms in which there is clearly stated that the casino reserves the right to do whatever it wants with the player's funds? In other words, is there any normal person in the world who should EVER sign up at any of the Fortune Lounge casinos? Will you, KasinoKing, assuming that you don't have any Fortune Lounge accounts already opened, will you ever sign up at these casinos and claim their bonus?
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| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 19, 2007, 12:54 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
Don't be putting words in my mouth or Joeyl's.
LOL - the joker's back!
What's that expression - something about pots and black kettles...?
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
1) The casino carries the "we reserve the right to rob you at our discretion" rule - the "irregular betting patterns" etc one.
2) You said the casino is entitled to invoke this rogue rule.
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
Regarding the quote above:
2) The bold bit; No I did not say that and I challenge you to quote from the post where you claim that I did.
I'm still waiting....
Furthermore, since you have seen fit to point out the T&C's at some of the casinos I recommend on my site (to which I have no objection), here's a couple from casinos recommended on your site:-
(Verbatim but with added bolding & underlines by me)
Omni casino:
Quote... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: CasinoNow at August 18, 2007, 11:27 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
I am not surprised to see a thread like this. This group has still made no progress on any of the things they were shooting off at the lips about two years ago. They're more interested in pumping out useless PR than anything.
And what is up with these wager requirements? Yikes! And the terms are basically a license to steal.
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| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 18, 2007, 12:27 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by joeyl
I agree with the above post by Caruso in essence, aside the annoyed bits.
Of course I understand your point KK. But some terms are just wrong and as per Caruso above, the mere presence of is roguable, when enforced, plain wrong.
Such as the catch-all, "we reserve the right to do whatever whenever and the management's decision is final", would render sending you a bonus abuse bill for all that you've won over 6 years, perfectly acceptable, strictly going by the terms.
In such a circumstance, I would support you, not the casino, regardless what rule they claim to rob you ia, using the ery same stance I now hold. One you find indefensible and quite obviously fairly confusing to get your head around.
If you now get that lot, whether you agree or not in this instance, you are moving towards understanding where I, and the likes of Caruso (I believe) are coming from.
Be well KK.
Thank you for your... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at August 17, 2007, 4:31 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
I agree with the above post by Caruso in essence, aside the annoyed bits.
Of course I understand your point KK. But some terms are just wrong and as per Caruso above, the mere presence of is roguable, when enforced, plain wrong.
Such as the catch-all, "we reserve the right to do whatever whenever and the management's decision is final", would render sending you a bonus abuse bill for all that you've won over 6 years, perfectly acceptable, strictly going by the terms.
In such a circumstance, I would support you, not the casino, regardless what rule they claim to rob you ia, using the ery same stance I now hold. One you find indefensable and quite obviously fairly confusing to get your head around.
If you now get that lot, whether you agree or not in this instance, you are moving towards understanding where I, and the likes of Caruso (I believe) are coming from.
Be well KK.
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| Posted by: caruso at August 17, 2007, 2:11 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by KasinoKing
You, me, caruso, the casino and the player involved all know his play was a deliberate pre-meditated attempt to 'abuse' this bonus.
Don't be putting words in my mouth or Joeyl's. You are speaking as a committed Microgaming affiliate, who carries all Fortune Lounge casinos on his site. You are not remotely impartial. You have a ested, financial interest in supporting this casino. This needs to be well bourne in mind when reading your comments.
The rule in question - nothing left out but bet examples:
Quote:
Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns...which all shall be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes.
Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance, where the majority of that balance is mad... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 17, 2007, 1:14 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by joeyl
Lets hope for your sake Microgaming don't retroactively add up bonus hunters accounts from day dot, and send you your bill of 6 years winning based upon some new rule they write tomorrow.
I hope not!
I don't think retrospective rules hold much water personally.
Just to finish off this topic; You, me, caruso, the casino and the player involved all know his play was a deliberate pre-meditated attempt to 'abuse' this bonus. It goes on all the time.
Although I personally would not make this sort of play, I'm all for players making use of any legitimate strategy to beat the casinos - I have no sympathy for establishments making big bucks from players when the odds are always on their side.
If he had got away with it I would have said well done mate - good on ya!
But the bottom line is he broke the rules & got caught.
I just don't understand how anyone can defend that...
KK
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| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 17, 2007, 12:48 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by joeyl
The 3 bets amounted to $150. Each bet returned $300.
That's 3 5/1 shots as far as I can tell.
Unfortunately the casinos statement "The 3 bets amounted to £150 (the deposit and bonus combined)" is ambiguous.
It could mean 3 even money £150 bets returning £300 each,
or 3 £50 bets at 5 to 1 returning £300 each.
The later seems ery unlikely as to win three 5 to 1 bets in a row is a 125/1 shot.
All my previous posts are based on the reasonable assumption that it was three £150 bets.
(Although it is only the ery first bet which is relevant)
If the case turns out to have been three £50 bets then I would fully retract my defense of the casino as this play would clearly not be in breach of their rules.
KK.
{edit} to add;
Just went back to the original post - it says:-
Quote:
Since you played Roulette to the alue of £450, the play through contributi... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at August 17, 2007, 9:24 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
The 3 bets amounted to $150. Each bet returned $300.
That's 3 5/1 shots as far as I can tell.
The whole concept of irregular betting patterns is a nonsense.
Bonus abuse claims are a nonsense.
Lets hope for your sake Microgaming don't retroactively add up bonus hunters accounts from day dot, and send you your bill of 6 years winning based upon some new rule they write tomorrow.
# 1 line of the terms is ok, but the rest is a nonsense, or bollocks, says all you need to know...
Pay the man.
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| Posted by: KasinoKing at August 17, 2007, 8:08 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Copied from the wrong thread to here:-
This post was address to me;
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
I give up.
1) The casino carries the "we reserve the right to rob you at our discretion" rule - the "irregular betting patterns" etc one.
2) You said the casino is entitled to invoke this rogue rule. You also support eCOGRA in saying the casino is entitled to invoke any and all rules, however rogue. As long as the rule is on the site, it doesn't matter how rogue the rule is, you support it.
What is incorrect?
OK.
Caruso has either not read my posts properly, has read them and only seen what he wants to see and not what was actually written, or he is just deliberately trying to wind me up (which would not be a first). Possibly all three!
So for his benefit I will spell it out one last time.
Regarding the quote above:
1) Yes, the casino T&C's do carry a rule, part of which is totally unaccep... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at August 7, 2007, 7:10 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
1) Punters gambling with thier brain to win as much money from a casino, bingohall, arcade or betting shop and managing to do so should be paid, then booted if they are clever enough, or lucky enough to win.
2) Fraudsters, ie chargebackers, multiple accounts and layers laying horses to lose while the jockey pulls the horse, should not even get their deposit returned, and should be charged with deception or theft.
The massive problem is that too many casinos, and their "sealers", iew the above 2nd tranche as the same as the first, thereby becoming the fraudster and/or thieves themselves in my eyes.
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| Posted by: FortuneLounge at August 7, 2007, 12:36 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Thank you for your contributions in this post. Debate such as this is far more productive and will benefit everyone in the end.
As I am not involved in setting up our terms and conditions or our wagering requirements, I will certainly discuss this with the relevant parties within our group.
The positive postings are definitely insightful and useful.
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge
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| Posted by: kavaman at August 6, 2007, 3:38 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
I for most part agree with caruso on this one. If a casino offers bonuses, the bonus terms must be clear. And by clear i am meaning, that there can't be a term that we can "rob" winnings even if you play by our rules.
There is a certain playtrough on certain games, and if that is fulfilled i am welcomed to cash out my winnings. Unless a player has done some kind of fraud there should be no exception. Thats the way it works on every reputable casino. Intercasino, inetbet, getminted, irgin, Rubyfortune, Bigdollar, 32red, Everest, Global-player. There are several reputable casinos, on several platforms.
All of these honor withdrawals if the player meets the wagering requirements. Thats the way it should be.
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| Posted by: rkalkul at August 6, 2007, 2:32 pm | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by FortuneLounge
Caruso, here is an open invitation.
Why don't you send me your ersion of how the terms and conditions regarding bonuses should read ? I would be ery willing to look at it to see if we can apply them (We will even pay you for that)
You keep on accusing us of theft, yet you defend players who try to do the same to the casino.
If you do not then have an agenda, why do you continuously have negative things to say about us and use every opportunity to label us ? If it is just a case of you not liking us, I can understand but then be objective at least.
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge
Listen you, what did i try to steal from you??? You did stole from me more than 1200 dollar. And now you call me a thief? Listen everybody- if you ever win at any of Fortune Lounge casinos- they will name you a thief! Just because you won there.
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| Posted by: caruso at August 6, 2007, 11:44 am | | Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by FortuneLounge
You keep on accusing us of theft, yet you defend players who try to do the same to the casino.
In this case, the player "broke the rules", agreed. The issue isn't this, it's that the rule is grossly unacceptable, because it essentially states that you reserve the right to confiscate money at will.
Quote: Originally Posted by FortuneLounge
If you do not then have an agenda, why do you continuously have negative things to say about us and use every opportunity to label us ? If it is just a case of you not liking us, I can understand but then be objective at least.
What is non-objective? If you can highlight any non-objective comment I've made, please do so.
Quote: Originally Posted by FortuneLounge
Caruso, here is an open invitation.
Why don't you send me your ersion of how the terms and conditions regarding bonuses should read ? I would be ery willing to ... | | Read Entire Entry |
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