| Posted by: caruso at March 13, 2008, 12:44 pm | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online | | Quote: Originally Posted by Larrybob I haven't read your suggestions only heard of them. These were they: Quote: Well, first and foremost, Fortune Lounge needs to remove the ambiguous language in its policy defining prohibited "irregular game play." Here is the policy again: Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns e.g. playing of equal, zero margin bets or hedge betting, which all shall be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance, where the majority of that balance is made up of bonus balance. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute “irregular play” for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus play-through requirements.... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Larrybob at March 13, 2008, 12:21 pm | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online | | Thank you sdaddy, I haven't read your suggestions only heard of them. I thought that some were in regards to eliminating the big bet/hedge bet concept, giving percentage of playthrough to 50/50 ish games, making the software discriminate and not offer bonuses unless they are valid, etc. If other casinos have the ability to offer bonuses without a fu clause and survive, then FL should be able to as well. I would just imagine that any guarantor (MGS?) would insist, but that's obviously not the case if VPL don't use one (nor do I know that MGS actually guarantees, just that they have paid when casinos have failed in the past) A well thought out, vetted, and implimented bonus system should not need the clause. Measure twice, cut once or sum such. Let's hope they DO revisit the terms soon it would be foolish not to after having asked for suggestions (or was it just someone's igood idea?) "It's one thing to have an escape and another to actually use it" simply won't fly if other successful casinos do not... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: sdaddy at March 13, 2008, 12:01 pm | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online | | Quote: Originally Posted by Larrybob What can they do but 'revisit' them? Even if they simply integrated the worthy suggestions and left the fu clause, it would be progress. Do the casinos you mentioned, who have no historical bonus disputes, have such a clause? It's hard to imagine operating a bonus system without some sort of escape clause. I'm not sure what you mean. My suggestion I posted at Casinomeister (to take out the "we reserve the right to confiscate for any reason we see fit" language) was to get rid of their FU clause. That is the central issue. Certainly not all casinos have such a clause, at least not the ones I patronize. For example, just compare Vegas Partner Lounge's T&Cs to those of Fortune Lounge. I've searched very carefully and I've found nothing in VPL's T&Cs that allows confiscation of winnings for undefined "bonus abuse" or "irregular play." | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Larrybob at March 13, 2008, 10:47 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online | | What can they do but 'revisit' them? Even if they simply integrated the worthy suggestions and left the fu clause, it would be progress. Do the casinos you mentioned, who have no historical bonus disputes, have such a clause? It's hard to imagine operating a bonus system without some sort of escape clause. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: caruso at March 13, 2008, 7:30 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online | | After ignoring the "suggestions" thread at Bailey's, an apparent email nudge elicited this response: Quote: Originally Posted by Fortune Lounge Thank you all for your comments so far. We will certainly be taking your input into consideration when we revisit our Terms and Conditions. Should we make any changes / improvement the members of this forum will be amongst the first to know. Wow. They really took that seriously, didn't they? WTG, "accredited" Fortune Lounge. I do like to see good casinos doing the right thing. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fcat13 at February 9, 2008, 9:04 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
He may do. But that is academic, since they need only add a line which reserves the right to confiscate any and all funds on any basis in order to be in line with his requirements when they so do. Fortune Lounge so does, so Bailey is happy. At this point, that they use "bonus abuse" or "real gambler" in the text is meaningless.
Who in the hell would play at a site that "reserves" the right to "confiscate" funds, and more importantly, who would promote these rogues?
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| Posted by: caruso at February 9, 2008, 8:26 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
He may do. But that is academic, since they need only add a line which reserves the right to confiscate any and all funds on any basis in order to be in line with his requirements when they so do. Fortune Lounge so does, so Bailey is happy. At this point, that they use "bonus abuse" or "real gambler" in the text is meaningless.
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| Posted by: caruso at February 9, 2008, 7:15 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by Joeyl
The presence of said terms need challenging.
That is what I think the Meister should be doing in my humble opinion.
Why??
Fortune Lounge adheres one hundred percent to his requirements:
http://www.casinomeister.com/casinos.php
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
They must adhere to their own Terms and Conditions.
This is what Vegas Palms state in their T & C:
Quote:
The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus play-through requirements.
So: Vegas Palms reserves the right to withhold any and all winnings where a bonus has been used, at any time, and on the basis of an absolutely unspecified criterion (ie. "s... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Casey Enos at February 9, 2008, 7:13 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
Bailey isn't remotely bothered about his casinos reserving the right to rob players at will
This industry sure has a bunch of idiots riding in the front of their ery own short buses! It's pretty telling to see how each of their respective dots connect as they take a sector and the industry deeper into the abyss.
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| Posted by: joeyl at February 9, 2008, 6:55 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
The presence of said terms need challenging.
That is what I think the Meister should be doing in my humble opinion.
Rubberstamping unfair terms is not what I think a player advocate, a casino watchdog, or a fair play advocate should be doing.
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| Posted by: caruso at February 9, 2008, 6:48 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Still going on. Fortune Lounge is still robbing players as per the "suspicious betting" clause.
Oh, and Fortune Lounge is now back on Bailey's "accredited" list of Microgaming rogues. Apparently, they had a good schmoozing at the ICE and Bailey isn't remotely bothered about his casinos reserving the right to rob players at will, as long as they state as much in the terms and conditions.
That is our "casino watchdog and player advocate since 1998".
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| Posted by: joeyl at December 31, 2007, 9:22 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
It's not just Fortune Lounge. It's industry accepted practise to maximise profits, by minimising punters profits ia hoops and loops attached to ridiculous offers of free money.
I've been to enough conferences to know that player issues are not high up the agenda.
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| Posted by: caruso at December 31, 2007, 6:33 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Seriously, I wish they would just sail away.
Look at Intercasino and the arious country clones: they've been offering MONTHLY bonuses, not just signup bonuses, for at least the last six years, possibly even from when they opened. The Cryptologic bonus format is IDENTICAL to the Microgaming one, bonuses posted up front and released after XYZ wagering on the required games. >>>The bonus formats are IDENTICAL<<<.
Yet Intercasino and country clones has N-E-V-E-R had a single bonus-related complaint. Signup and monthly bonuses, blackjack allowed, and never one single f***ing complaint.
Then look at the ENTIRE stable of Wagerworks casinos. The bonus format is different to the Crypto / Microgaming one, although it's identical to the Crypto "rewards" format - bonuses are released post-wager.
Never has one single Wagerworks licensee had a payment complaint made against it.
My point it? There are models out there that WORK. There a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: BingoT at December 31, 2007, 5:11 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
The Fortune Group
Sailaway with all the threads here.
http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=31482
http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=28162
http://mb.winneronline.com/showthre...39&page=1&pp=40
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| Posted by: caruso at December 31, 2007, 4:47 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by lisaloveslollipops
I wish I read this whole thread before I made a deposit. Vegas palms has locked my account after I deposited $50 and tried to cashin $80 after completing my wagering. They called me abusive and are ignoring my emails now.
I apologise for ignoring this.
The Fortune Lounge rep is currently in the forum, making Holier Than Thou comments about fraudulent players. Maybe he'd like to respond to this latest example of their standard fraud?
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| Posted by: lisaloveslollipops at November 12, 2007, 2:33 pm | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
I wish I read this whole thread before I made a deposit. Vegas palms has locked my account after I deposited $50 and tried to cashin $80 after completing my wagering. They called me abusive and are ignoring my emails now.
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| Posted by: caruso at October 24, 2007, 11:42 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
"Evidence presented" in the circumstances means nothing.
Hey, guess what? I just robbed the Crown Jewels.
Believe me?
Probably not. Probably not on that "evidence", at least.
It takes a damn sight more than "Yo' dude, he's a fraudster" to convict of fraud in a court of law.
I repeat: give me access to the "evidence". Or you / Sirius / Damian et al. Don't email bullsh*t to someone who might well just take it at face alue.
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| Posted by: joeyl at October 24, 2007, 10:36 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Let us see the evidence - but to what end?
All we're going to see is what the casino sent to the Meister. The Meister imo, will not side with a casino that is blatantly trying to avoid paying winnings by hook or crook.
Yes, the CM can be wrong, as proven by Damian's post. But, he's not imo, knowingly siding with the casino, to rob the player.
To do so, would apart from anything else, be as stoopid as one can get. Why?.. The casino will have evidence Bryan sided with them in a blatant defrauding of a player. He'd be a reet mug to knowingly trust his rep and living in the hands of a rogue operator.
The CM site may be strong in the engines, but far from strong enough to earn him a decent living, if it is proven he is as rogue as a rogue casino can ever be.
If the Meister is wrong, it's because others are pulling the wool over his eyes. Something I suspect, but certainly cannot prove, has happened before, and will happen again.
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| Posted by: caruso at October 24, 2007, 9:39 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
What Damian said.
Since when did "trust me 'cos I'm a cool dude" constitute anything remotely related to evidence? Affiliates "policing" their casino partners is obviously grossly inadequate.
There was never any mention of multiple accounts at the start. FL rolled out the "pattern abuse" story, and this somehow morphed into fraud at the end - a claim subsequently endorsed by a prominent...what? Affiliate.
Bollocks. Why should anyone be expected to take this for anything other than a whitewash of the truth?
Let me see the "evidence". Or Joeyl. Or Damian. Or Sirius. Or Bart. Or Sdaddy. Or someone who actually ranks as player-supportive and otherwise UNconnected to the casino business and therefore unbiased.
Unitl then, this is nothing more than a casino coverup, and the claims of "fraud" are nothing more than hot air.
Stay away from Fortune Lounge.
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| Posted by: joeyl at October 24, 2007, 7:18 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Can't knock the Meister if it's multiple accounts. That is fraud.
If it's betting in a way the casino would prefer not done, ie a way of the punter winning as much as possible, that's completely different, and should be challenged by all player advocates imo, even if it's written in CAPITAL letters, front and centre on the casino homepage.
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| Posted by: caruso at October 24, 2007, 6:49 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Bollocks.
Fortune Lounge: he's got multiple accounts.
Affiliate: OK, I believe you.
Player accused of fraud, no comeback, on the accepted word of a rogue operator, on the part of an affiliate.
Obvious rubbish. Does the player have fairies at the bottom of his garden as well? Next thing, they'll be asking Kahnawake to investiagate.
There was no corroboration of anything here. This was a rogue casino feeding a line to an affiliate, and he taking it. This would be laughed out of the room in any reputable regime setup, but then, as Fortune Lounge has already told us, it's "not a court of law", so they can do anything they please.
Stay away from Fortune Lounge. They are crooks who will steal your money on the basis of "pattern abuse", and if they can't make that stick they'll invent something else.
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| Posted by: BingoT at October 17, 2007, 4:49 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
I can't understand why Bryan would ban anyone He would have to have a good reason too.And I think Bryan would help anyone he can.
Or maybe their is another side of him I don't know about.
But I have been on this forum for many years and I feel you could not ask for a better person.
This is my opinion on it that's all.
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| Posted by: Sirius at October 17, 2007, 4:16 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Casinomeister apparently thinks this player mentioned above by Joeyl has multiple accounts ('linked to another player'). He is taking the word of the operator even though they are in the rogue section for denying winnings for 'bonus abuse'! He is apparently linked to one other player, but who knows.
By the way, Casinomeister banned me some months ago for making a post rightly criticizing 32Red (his favourite casino, apparently). I also had a complaint pending for another casino (a simple case of retroactive changes in promotion rules) that he didn't investigate in any way which shows he isn't really interested in uncovering unfair practices by casinos. I've noticed many times he often doesn't have a clue about complaints and usually sides with the casino if he doesn't understand the problem.
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| Posted by: joeyl at October 15, 2007, 3:16 pm | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Yes, I read that.
Punter deposits $100, gets $100 bonus. Gambled max bet of $200 over and over up to 8k and cashed in.
Not only do the casino keep the 7900. They keep the other losers money, that played the same game and lost.
Maybe a maths head could work out what that figure, theoretically would amount to.
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| Posted by: caruso at October 15, 2007, 2:29 pm | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
It looks like this most recent player didn't even do the "big bet then small" that some people go for - he played big all the way through, which is why he ended up with nearly five figures.
This was still "pattern abuse", according to Fortune Lounge and eCOGRA.
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| Posted by: bart at October 13, 2007, 9:59 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by caruso
Stay away from Fortune Lounge, and all other bullsh*tters who whine about "pattern abuse" with the backing of eCOGRA. If you ignore the warnings, then you will receive no support from even the most influential and ostensibly reputable affiliates out there (why Bailey is flogging this dead horse is a mystery to me). You will be on your own, and you won't see a cent of your money.
I had high hopes for eCOGRA. I now consider them a fake watchdog site. Really, the eCOGRA stamp is a bad sign.
bart
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| Posted by: Bethug at October 13, 2007, 6:23 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
casinomeister didnt even check what was going on. Plus FL is out right liars. They lied on me. I have no trust in the FL group at all. There no way you can cheat tri card poker online, that a rough game.
Quote:
27. Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns e.g. playing of equal, zero margin bets or hedge betting, which all shall be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes.
Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance, where the majority of that balance is made up of bonus balance. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute “irregular play” for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus play-through requirements.
The casino reserves the right... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: caruso at October 13, 2007, 6:11 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by bart
I live in the US but I don't advocate a return to casino gambling for Americans.
I agree, though that is easy for me to say, not being US-based.
There are legitimate enterprises out there, none of which deal to the US market. The main ones that come to mind are Cryptologic and Wagerworks.
The Cryptologic bonus system is i-d-e-n-t-i-c-a-l to the Microgaming one: bonuses upfront, but non-cashable until you've completed the terms. This is the Microgaming system in all but name. Yet over the past three, maybe four years, there has not been a single Cryptologic bonus complaint. Or any other complaint. The arious Intercasinos, or William Hill, or Omni, don't have a problem with "pattern abuse".
Wagerworks: marginally different format, but it is as clear as a bell and has no possible chance of being misunderstood.
>>>>No Wagerworks casino has EVER generated a bonus complaint, or pretty ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: joeyl at October 13, 2007, 1:38 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Casinomeister roped himself into this Ecogra thing long ago when he should'nt have. Ecogra has no player rep, and neither CM, nor Jetset are it. They may think they are, AND Ecogra thought they would be ample as the players oice, but they are not.
Players are just told the outcome by Bailey after meanderings behind closed doors and at conferences.. Anyone disagreeing with any decision is shown the door, if they won't remain ignored.
The Meister has stopped being a watchdog, fighting for fairness for/and players rights. This is proven by the fact his remit is now - "it's in the terms, so it's ok".
Me: I disagree the terms are even legible, let alone acceptable for a casino to write, in pursuit of increased profits, ia lower costs from promotions.
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| Posted by: bart at October 12, 2007, 7:12 pm | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
They are just hurting for money because the US market dried up.
I live in the US but I don't advocate a return to casino gambling for Americans.
The most I will trouble myself or represenatives about are poker rooms.
You can really support an industry when their own regulating body condones rogue behavior.
bart
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| Posted by: caruso at October 12, 2007, 12:36 pm | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
And again - this is a another player:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...8000-euros.html
"Pattern abuse"; Bailey backs the casino, because the casino carries "pattern abuse" in their terms; rogue terms are OK, it seems. Rogue terms that would be laughed out of any court in any genuine jurisdiction.
Seriously, I give up.
Stay the hell away from Fortune Lounge. What a disgrace.
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| Posted by: caruso at October 12, 2007, 6:00 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
I'm hearing more of this nonsense. More "pattern abuse" and substantial winnings confiscation, FF's sake. I cannot believe an adult business can behave in this way.
Why the hell do people play at groups like these with the amount of relatively reliable casinos currently available? Crypto? WagerWorks? They don't pull this sh*t.
My apologies to the Fortune Lounge rep, but I consider this an absolute rogue group, and would absolutely advise EVERYONE to stay away from it.
Slot junkies, bonus hunters, everyone: STAY AWAY from Fortune Lounge. They will rob you if you win, and eCOGRA will endorse their robbery. You might as well tear up your money and chuck it straight out the window. I know that times are hard and all that, but that's no excuse for this pathetic behaviour.
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| Posted by: FortuneLounge at July 23, 2007, 5:02 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
KasonoKing
The reality is that I can monitor this and other forums as regularly as possible and reply to every thread / posting and it will not change anything.
The Casinomeister posting referred to here clearly indicates what we have to deal with. If there was no bias against us, maybe Caruso should have posted here, after reading the full thread on CM to inform posters that the player complaint he refers to in his posting turned out to be from someone who tried to defraud us.
It is exactly this sort of thing makes casino representatives hesitant to participate in forums. I am ery happy to deal with legitimate player complaints and issues but I am not going to waste my time responding to comments made by posters who have their own agendas. These can be easily identified as they are always the exact same people (often not even past or present players in our casino) who go from one forum to the other spewing the same negative comments every time they have an opportunity t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KasinoKing at July 23, 2007, 1:18 am | | Topic: Fortune Lounge sailing off into the sunset Forum: Winner Online |
Quote: Originally Posted by FortuneLounge
Thank you for quoting this link Caruso. It leads to some ery interesting reading.
VP operations
Fortune Lounge
You should not need to be thanking Caruso for this - if you had any serious concerns about perception of your group on the forums, you would be monitoring them daily yourself and nip any such problems in the bud.
I'm personally ery disappointed in your group's rise, fall, rise and fall from grace again.
If what's posted at CM & elsewhere is true, you should be highly ashamed of your group's actions and be making it your number one priority to restore your credibility.
Just my 2c.
KK
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