| Posted by: Leftylou at February 25, 2005, 1:42 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Chatmaster
On a low pocket pair you only raise if a 3rd one fall on the flop. You cannot raise like crazy in the beginning with such a hand and you certainly do not have a 20% chance of winning the pot with a pair of deuces. The chances of someone else getting a higher hand dealt to them is to high.
I would call to see the flop and pray that there is another deuce or else I'll just fold.
What would you do with a 2,7 suited? The odds are higher that you will get a flush than take the pot with a pair of deuces.
I'm quoting this whole message, erbatim, cause everyone should read this twice. Including me! Leftylou
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| Posted by: Donovan at February 23, 2005, 6:48 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Ok, this is my theory to playing low pocket pairs, say 7's or less. I will likely call one raise in middle possition or even put in the first raise in late position to try to win the pot right there. As long as I can see a flop with these cards cheap I love them. Especially when dealing with ery low pairs like 2's or 3's, if you do hit a set it will be ery hard to detect, especially when you put in a raise preflop. Therefore when the flop comes up A J 2 your likely to break somone. More often than not if there is one raise in and it seems likely you not be raised it's good to take a flop with small pockets, my strategy is to play them much like Axs or suited connectors but just a little more aggressively. These are hands that favor alot of players in the hand and not alot of aggressive raising. I dislike the bet hard pre flop and again bet hard post flop strategy a great deal because your really stripping the power from your cards and turning them into 2 7 off suit. Why play them that way when they real... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Benimaru at February 18, 2005, 9:38 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Low pocket pairs have broven to be lethal to me. I used to raise them preflop to eliminate limpers but I figure no limper is gonna beat a set if I hit it. I just wait for the flop if no set then get rid of it.
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| Posted by: charterboss at February 15, 2005, 3:50 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
I only play them if the amount to call is low and then only after if they hit on the flop -- i think its only been around 10% of the time that when i folded them prior to flop they would have been the winning hand and much much higher percentage that if i play them i lose....this all changes when you get down to 3 or 4 players then i play them more often and harder
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| Posted by: lonemessiah at February 10, 2005, 5:56 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Don't go with the 50/50 rule, it is only roughly 50/50 they will get a higher pair than you pocket pair, if they have to 'over' cards, please remember straights are also more likely if you have 2 different cards, flushes will be more likely if they have suited cards, also if 4 of a suit comes out, it is more likely that they will have a higher suited card.
Not forgetting that if 2 pairs come out, chances are that you are suddenly left with the lowest kicker. Low pocket pairs rarely have a 50/50 chance of winning any sort of hand that would call a big raise, so although a raise can be beneficial, i would be wary of going all in, or even making a large raise, if that 3 of a kind doesn't turn up (and chances are that a ast majority of the time it won't) then bail those cards cards if it looks like anyone else has hit a higher pair.
Never hold on for the turn or river to give you 3 of a kind, it just won't happen nearly often enough to work
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| Posted by: Thewebmaster at February 10, 2005, 3:00 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Hi all,
I certainly wouldn't go all-in on low pocket pairs, in my experience there is nearly always at least one if not more that will call and with ery low pockets I wouldn't feel the odds would be in my favour. Having said that on pocket 2's 3's or 4's I will call even quite a large bet to see the flop, if I don't hit anything I cut my losses to play another hand.
I've had pocket A's lose about 50% of the time for me and i've probably won more times on low pocket pairs. It's hard to follow any advice when what works for one person might not work for another and every game is different, i've probably played pocket pairs differently every time i've got them. Sometimes you just get a feeling and go for it and it works, other times you might slow play low pockets and even hit 4 of a kind and decide to milk it to the river hoping that a couple get a hand worth calling your all-in final bet.
Not much in the way of advice from me but I enjoy reading the posts and seeing how others play some of th... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thomsen6 at February 10, 2005, 1:39 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Play the low pocket pairs only in position, raise with theme if that is what u want, if someone hits something at the flop, u can still fold if that someone raises.
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| Posted by: mikester47 at February 10, 2005, 12:45 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkDingo
im normaly slow playing my low pocket pairs and then go more aggressivly after ive hit the trips if i do if i dont im folding
yeah they really are the greatest or worst thing in poker, those low pocket pairs
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| Posted by: Hashash at February 7, 2005, 10:53 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Low pocket pair i usually go for the all-in depending on my position on the table.
Hi pair i try to milk it and draw in a player or two and then go all-in as soon as i feel i may be in trouble if i allow the next community card out. Most of the time i raise pot size with hi pair. and low pair go way over pot size to throw everyone in a folding situation. But either way i usually am hoping on 1 caller and not 3 or 4 or else its not turning out in my favor majority of times. I like 1 on 1 with pocket pair i guess is the best way to explain my game when i am in that situation.
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| Posted by: renderstream at February 7, 2005, 12:21 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Actually Lavits is correct.
In a head to head match, a pocket pair s 2 over cards (non-paired) is approximatly 50/50 - with a small advantage for the player holding pocket pair.
So for example:
2-2 s A-K
- The 2-2 is slightly favored, but it is almost a flip of a coin.
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| Posted by: slickster at February 6, 2005, 4:34 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by renderstream
Hi,
Was just wondering what your strategy is when you are dealt a low pocket pair? (22,33,44, etc). I believe if you play it through you have a 20% chance of catching your set.
My old style, i used to play this hand extremely aggressively, betting preflop to eliminate limpers, and then betting again on the flop regardless of what comes up. I have found this to be effective at times:
- Preflop bet makes others think i have a strong hand (AK, AQ, etc) And another bet on the flop will sometimes scare them off. Furthermore, if there is anyone who calls, and i happen to catch the trips, then i have them trapped.
On the other hand however, i find this play to be devastating when either your opponent catches any decent hand and you do not catch your trips - so i dont think this is the best way to play it.
What do you think?
only play them if you can see the flop for cheap, and hop to hit a set. You d... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: philthy at February 5, 2005, 8:09 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
low pocket pairs are only worth a call and somtimes a small bet if there can be no reraise after you. i wouldnt call a raise bigger then 2x the big blind [the normal raise minimum] because A: its possible your pockets are beat at the moment 2: any of the other players could have hit a pair on the flop to beat you and you might be tempted to call small bets to chase your set.
calling a small bet at the least is a good option because you can hit that set. and if you dont its any easy fold with ery few chips at risk. its also better to fold when you know your pockets are beat and not even put your chips at risk.
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| Posted by: Lavitz at February 5, 2005, 12:23 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Chatmaster
The only time I will sit with a low pair is when I posted blind. But as soon as someone raise I am out. I also don't know where you get your stats Lavitz but there is no way that you will convince me that a pair of deuces is worth that much even in a game where the odds is 50/50, I will think twice before playing that low a pair. What you say about the more players is true and there is different play involved with tournement play especialy where you have bunch of tight players together. It helps to bully them into folding even if you have absolutely nothing in hand. So I agree the play changes with the amount of players. At a 10 seat table my lowest hand I am willing to play with, is a suited A;10 unless I posted blind I will look at the flop and decide if I go on. I also prefer NL as I must be able to make big money when I do get a good hand. I do not play crappy hands as that only gets you into trouble at the river. But that's me... and it works f... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: creeative at February 4, 2005, 6:31 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
i would raise or call a raise with a small pocket pairs
if i dont hit it on the flop then just check and fold
and if i hit the flop i like betting it hard hopefully it stands up at the on
the river
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| Posted by: Chatmaster at February 4, 2005, 7:13 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
The only time I will sit with a low pair is when I posted blind. But as soon as someone raise I am out. I also don't know where you get your stats Lavitz but there is no way that you will convince me that a pair of deuces is worth that much even in a game where the odds is 50/50, I will think twice before playing that low a pair. What you say about the more players is true and there is different play involved with tournement play especialy where you have bunch of tight players together. It helps to bully them into folding even if you have absolutely nothing in hand. So I agree the play changes with the amount of players. At a 10 seat table my lowest hand I am willing to play with, is a suited A;10 unless I posted blind I will look at the flop and decide if I go on. I also prefer NL as I must be able to make big money when I do get a good hand. I do not play crappy hands as that only gets you into trouble at the river. But that's me... and it works for me, I am earning good money this way.
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| Posted by: jokerpoker2000 at February 3, 2005, 11:41 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
I always seem to have trouble with low pairs and seem like I miss play them... the info here sure helps... can't wait to put it to use.
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| Posted by: Lavitz at February 3, 2005, 11:27 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Chatmaster
Just remember that with a low pair you have almost no chance of winning the pot. Just fold and forget about it. The whole thing of playing poker is to get the discipline not to bet on what could have been!
Actually, if youre head to head, raise. Folding any pair whatsoever in head to head is a bad move. A pair of 2's holds about a 49 percent chance to win in head to head. Even a pair of modest 8's holds about a 69 percent chance to win the pot,a steady favorite. Pocket pairs are a force with only you and someone else in the pot.
Things change considerably with more people, although it would still be a mistake to fold if noone has raised.
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| Posted by: CUBSWIN at February 3, 2005, 11:08 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Just call the blind or any small raise, and If you don't get it on the flop fold. If you do hit it, try doubling or tripling up. If you're short stacked and you can get a one on one throw 'er all in before the flop.
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| Posted by: mikester47 at February 3, 2005, 7:34 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
in tournament play i recommend a raise two or three times to eliminate most people and then hope you can get only one or two callers. Also this way if you don't catch a set you can get out of the hand and not have crippled your stack.
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| Posted by: bigjace at February 3, 2005, 11:01 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
i would normally call out of position.if im on the button or big blind make a raise to clear out the limpers.as was said before this is not good strategy in limit games where i would just call regardless and hope to make trips on the flop.as a general rule if i dont make my hand on the flop i am out of there,but depends on the people i am playing against.trust your instincts and you wont go far wrong
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| Posted by: Chatmaster at February 3, 2005, 7:01 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Just remember that with a low pair you have almost no chance of winning the pot. Just fold and forget about it. The whole thing of playing poker is to get the discipline not to bet on what could have been!
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| Posted by: ChuckTs at February 2, 2005, 11:17 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
like i said before, im new at poker
but i usually just play min bets until i reach the flop and obviously if anyone is betting big on preflop, i just fold.
^^^i agree with betting big if your dealer or to the right of the dealer to eliminate
but im a pu$$y so i usually take it easy with that
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| Posted by: Lavitz at February 2, 2005, 10:42 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
The odds that someone else has a flush that is higher are extremely slim. Seven high flush isnt as bad as you might think. There are still four lower cards (not counting your 2) and although the possibility of a lower flush is unlikely, it is even more unlikely that the person will be holding the same suited hand considering there are only 13 cards of each suit. You holding two with at least 3 being on the board leaves only 8. Meanwhile (not counting the last two different suited cards on the board) there are 37 other cards that are not the same suit. Chances are he has one of them in his hand. However, if four cards of the same suit come up, your 7 high flush becomes a lot weaker because the opponent need only have one card of that suit to have you beat.
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| Posted by: Toby at February 2, 2005, 1:26 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
I would see how much to call and if it wasn't high then i would call it, Higher the bet then there is a great risk you will lose + someone else may have a flush with a higher card than a 7.
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| Posted by: Chatmaster at February 2, 2005, 8:38 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
On a low pocket pair you only raise if a 3rd one fall on the flop. You cannot raise like crazy in the beginning with such a hand and you certainly do not have a 20% chance of winning the pot with a pair of deuces. The chances of someone else getting a higher hand dealt to them is to high.
I would call to see the flop and pray that there is another deuce or else I'll just fold.
What would you do with a 2,7 suited? The odds are higher that you will get a flush than take the pot with a pair of deuces.
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| Posted by: Lavitz at February 2, 2005, 4:47 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
I suggest raising only if you are dealer or late position and noone else has. This will eliminate limpers. However, if you're early then you might want to call because someone after you might already be planning on raising with a higher pair. Also, if you raise too much then many players will go all in regardless of flop in an effort to bluff the pot. I wouldnt put yourself in this position because chances are the flop is gonna be hazardous unless you get a set. Bluffing can be hard with too much pre flop raising because players will feel they dedicated too much chips/money to fold now and will call your bluff regardless. Therefore calling would be best on early position.
Reputation plays a role however. If you raise a moderate amount and only one or two people call then you might be able to bluff them out. A lot of weaker players will call your bluff up until the river in an attempt to catch a card though, so this could also be dangerous. You might have to bluff up and past the river card to g... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Grumbledook at January 30, 2005, 12:40 pm | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
well depends if you are playing a cash game or a tournament
in a tournament they can be a great hand to just shove all in with, people are going to be less likely to call as they will want to conserve chips
danger here though is you get someone behind you with AA KK and you are somewhat trapped between a rock and a hard place, against AK or any other 2 higher unpaired cards then you are a ery slight favourite
as for cash games I normally play limit so I wouldn't adivse what you suggested for limit play, its only one more bet for each caller so it will build a big pot
that does have its merits and problems though, the pot is bigger so you will win more when you do get a set, though you are giving others correct pot odds to chase with flushes and straights (though the board could still pair giving you a boat (full house))
generally if I am going to play them then I will come in late with them if there have been some callers, you are in fact only going to flop a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Toby at January 30, 2005, 10:13 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Yes i see what you mean betting high with a low pair and then on the flop regardless of what comes up, but then at the same time thats dangerous play. I have to admit i hate it when i bet loads before the flop and get nothing and then someone else bets high its like crap im just going to throw away the money i bet
But then some of the time it works, Poker is all about balls . without them you cant win big amounts of money.
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| Posted by: renderstream at January 30, 2005, 12:38 am | | Topic: Low pocket pairs - what to do? Forum: Card Chat |
Hi,
Was just wondering what your strategy is when you are dealt a low pocket pair? (22,33,44, etc). I believe if you play it through you have a 20% chance of catching your set.
My old style, i used to play this hand extremely aggressively, betting preflop to eliminate limpers, and then betting again on the flop regardless of what comes up. I have found this to be effective at times:
- Preflop bet makes others think i have a strong hand (AK, AQ, etc) And another bet on the flop will sometimes scare them off. Furthermore, if there is anyone who calls, and i happen to catch the trips, then i have them trapped.
On the other hand however, i find this play to be devastating when either your opponent catches any decent hand and you do not catch your trips - so i dont think this is the best way to play it.
What do you think?
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