| Posted by: Scouse at December 4, 2006, 1:59 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
F Paulsson your advice is indeed good . I will take it slowly, and start low. I have to say, as much as I respect limit, it will take a large effort for me to play it - as it does seem a tad boring - but I guess I have been spoiled by playing stakes and styles of betting that were unfortunately above my means.
I am feeling more positive now - my money cleared in my NETeller account this morning - but I am not rushing into anything. It is clear I need to go back to square one, and not look down my nose at doing so. If I start back there and build up slowly, progressing only when I have done what I need to, I will be able to move with a steady footing.
I will take your advice to also to post some hands and get advice and feedback on what I could have done better and what pitfalls i should avoid.
I really appreciate all the advice you and the rest of the members who have posted have given me.
Cheers!
Scouse.
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| Posted by: Allsopp at November 30, 2006, 10:30 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Lo-Dog
Ya this one time some guy was telling everyone to fold premium hands to a raise. Some people.
Your an idiot.
Pay someone a compliment and get shot down for it.
If you cant understand the concept of mixing your play up to win more chips as opposed to relying on odds and hoping they come off - then you really are playing the wrong game.
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| Posted by: Lo-Dog at November 30, 2006, 4:28 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Allsopp
That is probably the best post I have ever read on this forum. Most of the advice given here is really bad and obviously dished out by amateurs but that bit of text from Paulsson is top class!!!!
Take it ery seriously!
Ya this one time some guy was telling everyone to fold premium hands to a raise. Some people.
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| Posted by: Allsopp at November 30, 2006, 4:14 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
That is probably the best post I have ever read on this forum. Most of the advice given here is really bad and obviously dished out by amateurs but that bit of text from Paulsson is top class!!!!
Take it ery seriously!
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| Posted by: F Paulsson at November 30, 2006, 4:04 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Scouse
Thanks for all your advice - in answer to some previous questions - I ma looking to dedicate 2 to 3 hours a night during weekdays and aprroximately 12 hours on the weekend to playing poker online. I want to make money. How much? Any money is better than no money - I have no deliusions and I am not about to quit my job to become the next WSOP champion.
That's a pretty serious investment of time, and I like that you're moving towards it with a clear mind; poker isn't - for all but the ery few - a fast track to riches. When you take poker seriously, and you do by the sound of things, your bankroll does matter quite a lot. Three hours a night, with a break every hour or so to stretch your legs, go to the bathroom, get a snack, etc., should be enough to play at least 2000 hands a week, even if you only play a single table. With sufficient skill, you'll propel through the ranks pretty quickly that way. Since you're not dependent on it for your incom... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Lo-Dog at November 30, 2006, 3:43 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Quote:
Also - I think I would prefer a place that would give me $25 max/min buy-in. Does anyone know where I can have that - I got bored of the last site I played on that offered that. If I used tables with a mx/min buy in - first of all it level the playing fiield for me and secondly I wouldnt have to decide if i want to buy in short stacked or for the max.
PokerStars has 10c/25c tables, so you could max buy in with $25.
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| Posted by: Allsopp at November 30, 2006, 2:30 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Hey Scouse.
Limit poker is probably the easiest way to make money in Poker, because the Badbeats are less likely to destroy you. Although you need to be able to deal with tilt to play Limit, as you will get dished out one hell of alot more Badbeats in it.
I make a nice sum of cash playing high stakes limit poker. With Limit you can also move out of your comfort zone and stepup levels without a big a risk to your bankroll as in No Limit or even Pot Limit.
For Cash Games I mainly play on Full Tilt. For tournaments, I switch to the Igaming network and microgaming network for some good alue. But I have bankrolls on most sites so I can switch to wherever is needed whenever.
This is another element of bankroll management I find useful.
Spread your bankroll across many sites. Personally I keep it all in Neteller but some people might not be comfortable with that!
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| Posted by: Scouse at November 30, 2006, 12:25 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Thanks for all your advice - in answer to some previous questions - I ma looking to dedicate 2 to 3 hours a night during weekdays and aprroximately 12 hours on the weekend to playing poker online. I want to make money. How much? Any money is better than no money - I have no deliusions and I am not about to quit my job to become the next WSOP champion.
I want to continue learning as a poker player, and I want to get my game back, and I want to keep my game sharp.
I am daunted because I have read over a few articles I wrote as long as a years ago, and I don't understand them as intuitively as I used to. I never really paid any respect to bankroll management and I was punished for not doing so. Also, I have never taken to playing limit hold'em. Maybe I should be ready to go back to square one and start all over?
Before I started this post, I was thinking of playing $.25/$.50 PL Hold'em games using $25 to buy in and not re-buying more than once a night - to limit any amount of til... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dingodaddy23 at November 28, 2006, 11:58 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Quote:
Since playing and going through my own wild swings of my bankroll the one bit of advice that I can give you is towards the type of game to play. I have found that limit HE seems to be the one game that gives you the most control over the BR swings.
take it from me, LHE is the devil. i cant tell you how many times i have spent days and weeks grinding up a bankroll only to donk it off taking a shot at a big limit game and running disgustedly bad enough to tilt me into losing the rest of it. hell, i just did it the other night. just as i was starting to get good at NLHE cash games, i decide to go play some 5/10 limit and take bad beat after bad beat until i lose the entire 700$ i had built up from 20 during the week.
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| Posted by: Allsopp at November 28, 2006, 11:51 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Hey meideiros.
In poker there is generally one way to make alot of money. Thats being the table captain. This is true in both tournaments and cash games and this is also a good reason why you dont have to differentiate your play that much between tournies and cash games - contrarary to what some pro's tell you. Many more pro's will tell you that there aren't great differences.
This brings me to the point of always buyin in with the maximum. You should always do this because, straight away in cash games you can jump ahead of the players that haven't even got the maximum buy in in front of them.
The person on the table with the most chips is nearly always the table captain. The benefits of this are numerous but mainly:
- People will generally, never make moves against you because they see you as a dangerous player. If you have $110 in front of you and the maximum buy in is $50, you are nearly always a good player and therefore people are less likely to take you on. Whi... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: F Paulsson at November 28, 2006, 12:57 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
There are definitely exceptions to buying in with the maximum. Shortstack play can be a lot more profitable if you're just starting out playing NL, because it keeps you from making big mistakes. I feel like a parrot, but Ed Miller's Getting Started in Hold 'em covers the how and why for this ery well.
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| Posted by: medeiros13 at November 28, 2006, 12:34 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Allsopp
.
For example the highest possible limit you should be playing with your bankroll is 0.25/0.50. Because 5% is 1 maximum buyin at that level [I am working like this because you should ALWAYS buy in with the maximum in cash games - there are no exceptions]
There is some ery good advice you're getting here.
Allsopp, I want to ask you to expand further on the quote below. I'm a relatively small stakes player but I always go in with the minimum because I think it keeps me ery tight early in my session and that helps. Worse case scenario, I lose my first minimum and gain some knowledge on the playstyle of the particular table I'm at.
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| Posted by: Allsopp at November 27, 2006, 10:24 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Well. First of all, it depends what you want the bankroll to do.
The only reason you need a bankroll for poker, is to win at it. If your just a recreational player - you dont need a bankroll at all.
I say this because, if you go bust when playing for fun - it doesn't really matter. But if you go bust when your trying to win cash. Then thats a serious problem.
Also, you need to get your confidence back before you play poker. I make a living out of online poker, by beating up on people on the cash games and issuing badbeats. However I wouldn't be able to do this if I wasn't confident and happy to lose money to win money. You should never be timid at the tables or afraid of losing because if you do your in the same mindset as a gambler and will always lose.
As for management. Well, like the good man says. Only have 5% of your bankroll in play at anyone time and if you lose that 5% stop playing. If you want to be able to go bust and reload then make sure your bankroll is ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thelynx at November 27, 2006, 9:43 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
I apply the roule that I go to a table with 10x BB. If my bankroll would decrease below 300xBB I would start to play at a lower limit. If my bankroll would increase to 450xBB I would start to play at a higher limit
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| Posted by: tenbob at November 27, 2006, 7:22 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Jumping straight onto $100 NL tables and higher buy-in sit and gos is generally a mistake.
Buy pokertracker before you start. Hit the smaller buy in tables and dont move up until you play a pre-determined amount of hands, if you cant beat a $10NL table you certainly wont beat a $100 one. Have the odd move up, take a look, and go from there.
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| Posted by: AnnoDomino at November 27, 2006, 7:16 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
not really an answer to your question in the purest sense, but my top tip for bankrole management - play every 'added alue' cardschat tourny you can get to
anno
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| Posted by: MrSticker at November 27, 2006, 6:24 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Great advice so far. I just want to add 2 things I learned on my own the hard way:
1) Never, EVER sit down with more than 10% of your bankroll (I myself am only comfortable with 5%, but that's me). If you multi-table, that means the total of your tables combined. You gotta think of how you would feel if you lost the whole stack you sat down with, especially at NL cash tables. How bad would you feel if you lost $100 or even just $50? Winning is easy to handle, but I think losing should always be taken into consideration.
2) You said your "confidence has been smacked down massively". Then you need to do some non-consequential poker-related things to get it back into shape. Play a poker ideo game or play-money tables. Read some books. Watch some poker shows. Sit down with a friend and pick each other's brains about poker. Also, when you do start wagering real money, start with ery low stakes until you get your confidence back. Lower than your $1K BR would dictate. Conquer the 5c... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: F Paulsson at November 27, 2006, 6:00 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Do you want to win, or is $200 a month something you'd be willing to spend on poker as a hobby? Are you looking to break even? Or do you think a bankroll of $1k is where you'd like to stay, and perhaps get a small cashout now and again with your winnings?
Or do you want to move up progressively as you get better?
If you're not a compulsive gambler, and you're playing for recreation rather than for money, a bankroll isn't that big of a deal. You just need to play at limits low enough that you can have a few rough sessions without going bust. But if your current deposit is what you want to play with (and not re-deposit) your job is to find a game that you can beat - usually by starting at the lower end and working your way up - and then take it from there.
In the guide I suggest you start with $50. Of course, you have a lot more than that already, but you could always consider that a bonus. About a third of the guide deals with bankroll management (and slightly related issues); ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: bubbasbestbabe at November 27, 2006, 3:58 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Since playing and going through my own wild swings of my bankroll the one bit of advice that I can give you is towards the type of game to play. I have found that limit HE seems to be the one game that gives you the most control over the BR swings. If you are a good player you will see a steady increase in your BR playing at that type of table with minimal loss. If the game seems boring to you, (and at times it will), you need to mix it up either with some low stake NLHE SNG's or a little higher stake tourney. I say low stake SNG because it's going to give you a little more action on the NLHE end. You can satisfy your craving for the little wilder play than what you have been doing. And at the same time not take a big hit to your BR.
At the higher NLHE MTT, the play is just a tad tighter and the rewards are greater. Your limit play should give you the disipline to wait for those killer hands and be able to move in for the coup de grace.
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| Posted by: Scouse at November 27, 2006, 12:46 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Hi All,
I have read as much as I can get my hands on regarding bankroll management. As some of you know I have been recovering from having my bankroll smashed quite a while ago, and I put the incident down to poor management of my own bankroll. I have read many of the posts on here but I come seeking two things:Your personal opinion of how I should manage a bankroll of $1000Any good points of reference on this topic i.e. forum posts like this, poker websites and books like this.FYI My new bankroll is being funded by a stunning night of blackjack where I played against my boss, starting off with just $10 and he was being the house. I am also willing to inject $200 a month into my bankroll for as long as necessary.
Also please note, my confidence has been smacked down massively, and although I am looking forward to getting back in the saddle, I am looking to only join cash games with the minimum buy-in and play small tournament games.
Kind regards,
Scouse.
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| Posted by: RammerJammer at June 21, 2005, 4:16 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by mrjoetoyou
i play whatever limits fit 10/20 times into my bankroll
so say i got$200 ill only play $10 or $20 RING GAMES
until that is my build is my bankroll up again,
at the moment worked my bankroll up so i am able to be at $25/50 blind tables with max buy in of $50
Okay, I'm confused. The minimum buy-in on a $10/$20 No Limit Hold 'Em ring game is going to be $500. The minimum buy-in at a $25/$50 NLHE ring game is going to be $1000.
So, do you mean you're playing dime/20-cent and quarter/half-dollar tables? (In which case, you're using your $200 appropriately.)
Or are you completely full of s**t and wasting our time by posting nonsense? (In which case, you should just go away.)
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| Posted by: wudegod at June 21, 2005, 4:14 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
It's really hard to stop at a set limit sometimes,,especially if your in the middle of a winning streak
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| Posted by: tenbob at June 21, 2005, 2:54 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Once again thanks for the advice, I tend to play tight at the beginning of a sit and go and let the lunatics at it for the first 10 or so hands, when I do enter a pot i tend to do so raising, but as a ariance in play ill try and limp in a few times in the early stages and see how i get on !!
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| Posted by: colin_147 at June 21, 2005, 10:15 am | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by tenbob
thanks for all the advise , over the weekend i progressed to the 5$ sit and gos on poker stars played 6 games in all, 1 bad beat and 1 game where i just got rags rags rags. But i won one of them and came in 3rd in the rest, so im happy enough at this level for a few weeks, the level of skill is a little bit better put generally these games seem to have a lot of fish, especially after 11pm or so !!!!!
Hi mate,
Well done on progressing. You will find the level a bit better but as the tables are smaller and they are SnG's you will get a better feel for your opponents, as you wont be moved all over the place
Where you said about their being fish - you will find that in small table SnG's players will call the BB if they can see the flop, hoping to hit something. It might not be that they are bad players, its just cheap to see if you can hit something and also players are less likely just to chuck all their chips in like in MTT's.<... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: tenbob at June 20, 2005, 4:01 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
thanks for all the advise , over the weekend i progressed to the 5$ sit and gos on poker stars played 6 games in all, 1 bad beat and 1 game where i just got rags rags rags. But i won one of them and came in 3rd in the rest, so im happy enough at this level for a few weeks, the level of skill is a little bit better put generally these games seem to have a lot of fish, especially after 11pm or so !!!!!
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| Posted by: speedyvolvo at June 19, 2005, 6:40 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
I have had bad luck keeping my bankrolls, Pacific poker gave me a 100 dollar bonus, i made 130 and cashed out the 30, then i lost the remaining bonus money in just one night. I would reccomend playing micro limit tables untill you feel like u can handle the higher stakes. Also, the low buy in heads up tourneys are great to try out.
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| Posted by: mrjoetoyou at June 19, 2005, 2:57 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
i play whatever limits fit 10/20 times into my bankroll
so say i got$200 ill only play $10 or $20 RING GAMES
until that is my build is my bankroll up again,
at the moment worked my bankroll up so i am able to be at $25/50 blind tables with max buy in of $50
and am allmost once again able to play 50/1$ blind tables.
(**If you didn't guess i once built my bank roll to quite a healthy amount then decided to move up in the poker world to big limits and lost big amounts of my BR, ive spent a month starting from bottom again but am now back up!**)
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| Posted by: Four Dogs at June 17, 2005, 5:35 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Another important dynamic of bankroll management along with, how much of it should be in play at any time, and what tables you should play at based on the size of your bankroll is how much you should allow yourself to lose at any one sitting.
This is summarized from an article by Annie Duke:
"When I first started playing poker, my big brother gave me a great piece of advice. He told me to never lose more than 30 big bets in a game, give or take. That means I shouldn't lose more than $180 in a $3-$6 game, $600 in a $10-$20 game and so on. What a great piece of advice that was, one of the most important he ever gave me for money management,...
...One thing the 30 bet rule does for you is limit your losses in games where you might be the sucker. Until you are able to accurately judge how you play compared to others in your game, loss limiting with the 30 bet rule effectively stops you from dumping off large sums of money in games you may not be able to beat. This is always a good str... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: RammerJammer at June 17, 2005, 2:30 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by IrishDave
Last year I started on Party Poker with the minimum deposit and turned it into 400 bucks in 2 weeks. Moved up to the more expensive games (like 3/6 NL) and I was broke in a day. At the higher limits it only takes a few bad plays to wipe you out.
Thanks for sharing, Irish. That rough lesson demonstrates perfectly the soundness of the "200 x BB" guideline. The 3/6 tables shouldn't be tackled with anything smaller than a $1200 bankroll, if you buy into the concept. Dave stepped up too quickly, with a scant 1/3 of the recommended funds, and found out the hard way how rapidly what appears to be a decent chunk of change can evaporate. Live and learn. I made the same mistake several times early on in my internet play. Some of us are more stubborn than others.
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| Posted by: tenbob at June 17, 2005, 2:21 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Many thanks for that bit of advise rammerjammer, I'm going to try a few $5 sit & go's over the weekend and see how I get on. I don't really want to be playing $1 games for the rest of my life. I let ye know how i get on !
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| Posted by: RammerJammer at June 17, 2005, 2:10 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
In reading on the subject of poker bankrolls, there seems to be a pretty wide range of opinions. I have seen the recommendation of 350 times the big blind of the ring game you're playing, down to 150 times the big blind. I have also seen the total of the betting round used (sb+BB). I personally split the difference and use 200 x BB as my guideline.
Now remember, this isn't how much money you should take to the table with you. You NEVER want to take your entire bankroll to any one table for a single session. A run of cold cards can wipe you completely out, no matter how skilled you may be. This formula is designed to give you an idea of what level of game you should be concentrating on, based upon your total available funds.
Using the 200-blind guideline, a player with $180 in poker money should be realistically playing nothing larger than the .50/1.00 table, and even that's a bit of a stretch. The .25/.50 tables are going to be more comfortable for that sized bankroll.
S... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: colin_147 at June 17, 2005, 1:22 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
If you are gonna move up then maybe start off by playing some limit ring games. This way you wont go broke and if you get burnt you can walk away without throwing the lot
Also, try some 5/6/8 table STT's and see how that goes. I have been pretty succesfull at these and if you are a reasonably ok player, you will normally do ok
Good luck
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| Posted by: aardman at June 17, 2005, 12:09 pm | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
Try some of those 18 or 27 people $5 SNGs.
The skill level is not much different from the $1.
There may be a few less maniacs so the play is a little more predictable.
If you start doing badly you can always step back down to $1.
Good luck mate.
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| Posted by: IrishDave at June 17, 2005, 11:49 am | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
I would be ery cautious about moving up into the more expensive games. Last year I started on Party Poker with the minimum deposit and turned it into 400 bucks in 2 weeks. Moved up to the more expensive games (like 3/6 NL) and I was broke in a day. At the higher limits it only takes a few bad plays to wipe you out.
I would consider moving up to 2 or 5 buck buy in tourneys as this is what I play now.
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| Posted by: tenbob at June 17, 2005, 11:33 am | | Topic: Bankroll Managment Forum: Card Chat |
I have a question on how to properly manage my bankroll. I started on pokerstars 2 weeks ago with a mininum deposit at started playing in the $1 doller sit and go's 45 players paying the top 7, mainly in an effort to improve my game, I usually play 1 or 2 games a night, now my br is at $180. I want to move up in limits but i need to know what limits to play so I dont ruin all my hard work in 2 or 3 evenings.
Any suggestions on this would be great.
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