| Posted by: AKSuited at January 20, 2007, 6:10 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by dbitel
ummmm....calling with Q7 preflop is -EV (to a 4xBB raise) bno matter what. Just cos you stack AA 1 in 500 times or whatever it is, still makes the preflop call VERY bad
Exactly. A good player wouldn't call with Q7, unfortunately there are bad players out there and they sometimes get rewarded for ther bad play. Bad players are hard to factor into any decision
Quote: Originally Posted by dbitel
I think you'll find that just about every book will tell you to CALL 34s and all suited connectors preflop to a minraise (with 100BBs behind)
Surely it depends on position. I was playing mega tight a few weeks and 43 suited is in group 7 of Sklansky's rankings. I was in the mind set of not calling any raises with group 7 or group 8 hands so i wouldn't have called back then. As I said, I have since adapted and I did call on this occasion. I am actually starting to win at last, but it's one hell of a learning curve
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| Posted by: dbitel at January 20, 2007, 11:28 am | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by AKSuited
Instead they call with Q7, so when Q7 also hits the flop, it looks innocent enough so you fire a big bet. By the time the river has come and you've lost a large portion of your stack, you start to question the guy who called your big pre-flop raise with Q7, because the book said he shouldn't so it.
ummmm....calling with Q7 preflop is -EV (to a 4xBB raise) bno matter what. Just cos you stack AA 1 in 500 times or whatever it is, still makes the preflop call VERY bad
Quote: Originally Posted by AKSuited
And indeed, a few weeks ago I wouldn't even contemplate playing 43 because I was told by 'Sklansky' not to.
I think you'll find that just about every book will tell you to CALL 34s and all suited connectors preflop to a minraise (with 100BBs behind)
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| Posted by: AKSuited at January 20, 2007, 4:28 am | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
I agree that playing "by the book" doesn't always work. I'm fairly new to poker and have read several books and tried to play by the book. So I wait ... and wait ... and wait for a premium hand and duly raise etc. The problem I found is that even though you have AA tucked away nicely, players don't play like the book says. Instead they call with Q7, so when Q7 also hits the flop, it looks innocent enough so you fire a big bet. By the time the river has come and you've lost a large portion of your stack, you start to question the guy who called your big pre-flop raise with Q7, because the book said he shouldn't so it.
But lately I have started to change my style and loosen up a bit. I have made more money by playing 87 off suit than I have with AA ... and that is no lie. And the great thing about playing low connectors is that no-one believes what you have. I made a killing the other day when I called a pre-flop raise with 43 suited. The flop came down 334. The other guy went all in on... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: MrSticker at January 17, 2007, 8:14 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus
"Always limp UTG and call a raise with 53 suited". Nah, I don't think HSP is the world's greatest learning tool, heh.
Seriously, different people learn best in different ways. Some digest more through reading ('visual' learners), and some find hands-on experience to be more useful ('practical' learners). To dismiss either would be pretty foolish, and as is the case with most things a healthy balance is of course best.
Is there a 3rd type of learner? What about the kind who learns better by taking notes? Reading, doing, or writing. If that's true, then I'm the third one. I actually retain more when I take notes, even when I read a book.
(Would "listening" or "being told" be a fourth? LOL.)
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| Posted by: Dorkus Malorkus at January 17, 2007, 7:57 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
"Always limp UTG and call a raise with 53 suited". Nah, I don't think HSP is the world's greatest learning tool, heh.
Seriously, different people learn best in different ways. Some digest more through reading ('visual' learners), and some find hands-on experience to be more useful ('practical' learners). To dismiss either would be pretty foolish, and as is the case with most things a healthy balance is of course best.
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| Posted by: combuboom at January 17, 2007, 7:43 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
Whether or not you follow the advice in poker books yourself, the fact is that, if you plan on playing and beating GOOD players, a lot of these good players are playing largely by advice in said poker books. Reading them gives you insight into how other players may be playing, so you can adapt accordingly. Reading poker books is only a disadvantage if you're not using and/or adapting the advice properly.
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| Posted by: MrSticker at January 17, 2007, 7:39 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
OK, OK. You are both right.
When you watch the poker pros on TV, you can get good tips from them. But you also have to keep in mind the type of opponents they are playing. They are so good because they adapt to the table. At certain times, I've seen Gus Hansen be the tightest at the table and I've seen Dan Harrington bluff his ass off. They can both "change gears" to fit the table.
You definitely shouldn't play a 5c/10c online table like the pros play on High Stakes Poker, but you can get a few great tips from that show.
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| Posted by: dbitel at January 17, 2007, 7:07 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by LastBullet
Mod edit - quote removed ~DM.
ummmm....ok...say you want to become a mths proffessor, would you learn from your own mistakes or read a book?
Obviously you should try and adapt information to suit your game, but not taking advice and help from better and more knowledgable players is just stupid
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| Posted by: Vasity at January 17, 2007, 6:23 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by dbitel
if you wanted to become a great tennis player, would you get coaching offered to you for free by some of the greats, of just play and learn from your own mistakes?
Exactly, You need to take in the advise the problem is people get impatient when they are at the table I know I do. And play hands they know are not playable hands especially in their position. But you play them anyways and justify playing that weak/marginal hand and that's where most players mess up.
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| Posted by: JimboJim at January 17, 2007, 6:21 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by LastBullet
I dont watch WSOP, WPT, High Stakes or anything that involves other pro poker players. play your own game, make your own mistakes, and fix them by yourself. if you can say that you didnt take anyones advice except for your own, and make big money then that is rewarding in itself with a huge pay day.
Yes you need the advice and tips but the important thing is how you incorperate it into your game.
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| Posted by: dbitel at January 17, 2007, 6:07 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by LastBullet
I dont watch WSOP, WPT, High Stakes or anything that involves other pro poker players. play your own game, make your own mistakes, and fix them by yourself. if you can say that you didnt take anyones advice except for your own, and make big money then that is rewarding in itself with a huge pay day.
if you wanted to become a great tennis player, would you get coaching offered to you for free by some of the greats, of just play and learn from your own mistakes?
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| Posted by: LastBullet at January 17, 2007, 6:05 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
I dont watch WSOP, WPT, High Stakes or anything that involves other pro poker players. play your own game, make your own mistakes, and fix them by yourself. if you can say that you didnt take anyones advice except for your own, and make big money then that is rewarding in itself with a huge pay day.
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| Posted by: scifell at January 17, 2007, 3:17 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
My biggest complaint with a lot of poker books is that the strategies discussed require certain things of your opponents that are not always met. The pros are often talking about things that would require you to be playing again a savy opponent who knows what he is doing, and will lead you astray when playing ery poor players who don't pay attention- which is quite often the case at low limit, online tables.
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| Posted by: dbitel at January 17, 2007, 1:54 am | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
FWIW, the 300-400BBs only applies to limit. For no limit, you want to have 2000BBs+.
Also, IMO, the most important thing is not learning the advice, but understanding the advice. I've been asked quite a few times why I post on forums and isn't that giving up EV etc. etc. the fact of the matter is that its not, for the simple fact that people take advice at face alue FAR too much, and dont think it through themselves. if you don't understand the why of a move, you'll never be able to know when/how to use it yourself
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| Posted by: MrSticker at January 14, 2007, 6:29 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
I agree, too. That's why I have 16 poker books in my personal library (I'm on #8). It makes it hard to take just one as "law" and it provides a good mix of info that provides me with the tools to create my own correct style of play.
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| Posted by: MercilessKiller at January 14, 2007, 5:44 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
Hey I definitely agree. It's a good post. Advice is ery general and covers a lot of situations. That's why I try to give examples of specific areas as I wouldn't want people to integrate one type of playing style into their other while not realising!! That would be worse!
However, the advice that appears on this forum would be good for the lower limit cash games and lower mtt/sng's where by general advice is actually ery good! Its important to get the mix right yes so there we go
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| Posted by: JimboJim at January 14, 2007, 5:38 pm | | Topic: The negitive side of 'Expert Advice' Forum: Card Chat |
One of the first things a serious poker player needs to do is buy themselves a poker book or two and read. Most of the strategy posts on here are good too. The negitive side of that is that they take it as law and play exactly 'by the book'. The way I look at it is that the book is only a starting point. You need to make it work for your style of play. Get a good sample playing by the book then adjust your game a bit. See how that works for you then adjust again. Find what works for YOU not what works for the pro's. Be prepaired to lose a little money while you make your adjustments. The suggested Bankroll usually is 200-300x the big blind for the limits you play. Bump that up a little and do 400-500x to be safe while you are learning your style.
The 'Experts' only can tell you the general strategy and will never be in the exact situation with the exact goal and exact mindset that you are in.
I'm not much of a writer but I hope you understand where I'm getting at. Too many begginers ... | | Read Entire Entry |
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