| Posted by: Mojomax747 at May 16, 2007, 5:57 pm | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by FinalTable
Online - sometimes I'll call a relative small bet even though I know I'm beat.
What's reasonable? If I'm at say the .10/.25NL tables, and someone rivers me after calling all the way - and say there is $5.00 in the pot, and he bets 0.75-1.50 - I'll call just to make him show. I may only do this once at a table especially if I've never played this person for.
Why would I call when I know I'm beat? I've caught a LOT of people putting a post oak bluff on the river online. I want them to know that if they bet on the river - they better have it cuz I'll make them show. I did this twice last night and won $10 because twice two diff people (at a 4 handed table) called my TP all the way to river and looked like a flush came out. One bet - one reraised...but it was relatively a small bet so I called and neither had it. Then again, same circumstances (I think I had 2 pair s a 10-K on the board). The K came on river and he bet $3.00. I called... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dorkus Malorkus at May 16, 2007, 4:33 pm | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by robwhufc
Tiltboy, of course you can call too much, but you can also fold too much. Everyone is trying to do the Hellmuthesque laydowns, but in the example you gave, he could have been betting away with loads of hands you could have beat - AA for instance. You've got to remember that you don't have to get every decision right in poker - in your example you only have to be right 1 time in 4 to break even, and i would guess you'd win here more than that.
This is sort of why I ignored the hand in my last post. I think it's actually a ery marginal decision and not worth OP getting worked up over.
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| Posted by: dj11 at May 16, 2007, 4:21 pm | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
There came a time when I finally laid down KK, to what was obviously a str8 to the A.
Rather than feel sick about it, I felt elated. The str9 was proved cause someone else hung, with a hand I would have beat, my trip K's would have beat the trip trip Q's but the read I got was that the str8 was made. It was remarkably easy. And remarkably fullfilling.
Now, when I get to the point I can hang up on AAA, I'll feel goood knowing I have passed another hurdle. Hasn't happened yet though.
In one of the posts in another thread there was the great idea of not having your mouse pointer hovering anywhere near the action buttons. It becomes a time consuming chore then to put it in the right place and click the action. In that time your mind is churning away at what the right action might be. It may only be a micro second, but that time is well spent.
Remember that the only gut feeling you want to pay any real attention to is the one that comes just before you upchuck dinner.............. | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: robwhufc at May 16, 2007, 3:47 pm | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus
I'll ignore the actual hand and just make a general comment.
If you truly know you're beat, there's only one reason that you're calling. you want to be proved 'right', you want him to show that he rivered you so that everyone can see that that nasty little rascal outdrew you and so that you can see that you must be a great poker player because you were 'right' about him rivering you.
Eliminate this from your mind. A truly good poker player does not need to be shown he is 'right' - he will just simply fold and move on if he is confident enough that he is beaten. Ego has no place in poker, nor does thinking in terms of 'right' and 'wrong'.
If you believe this may be an issue, I ramble on some more about relevant issues here.
I've called plenty of bets in the past just to show my opponent how unlucky i've been. Totally ridiculous, no-one cares about your bad beats .
Tiltboy, of course you can call too ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FinalTable at May 16, 2007, 3:41 pm | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Online - sometimes I'll call a relative small bet even though I know I'm beat.
What's reasonable? If I'm at say the .10/.25NL tables, and someone rivers me after calling all the way - and say there is $5.00 in the pot, and he bets 0.75-1.50 - I'll call just to make him show. I may only do this once at a table especially if I've never played this person for.
Why would I call when I know I'm beat? I've caught a LOT of people putting a post oak bluff on the river online. I want them to know that if they bet on the river - they better have it cuz I'll make them show. I did this twice last night and won $10 because twice two diff people (at a 4 handed table) called my TP all the way to river and looked like a flush came out. One bet - one reraised...but it was relatively a small bet so I called and neither had it. Then again, same circumstances (I think I had 2 pair s a 10-K on the board). The K came on river and he bet $3.00. I called and he was bluffing. After that, I started getting han... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: tiltboy at May 16, 2007, 12:16 pm | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus
I'll ignore the actual hand and just make a general comment.
If you truly know you're beat, there's only one reason that you're calling. you want to be proved 'right', you want him to show that he rivered you so that everyone can see that that nasty little rascal outdrew you and so that you can see that you must be a great poker player because you were 'right' about him rivering you.
Eliminate this from your mind. A truly good poker player does not need to be shown he is 'right' - he will just simply fold and move on if he is confident enough that he is beaten. Ego has no place in poker, nor does thinking in terms of 'right' and 'wrong'.
If you believe this may be an issue, I ramble on some more about relevant issues here.
Thanks for that - kinda what i wa looking for
+ This only seems to occur online when i play live games i am ery comfortable with folding if i think im beat regardless of what hap... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dorkus Malorkus at May 16, 2007, 11:32 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
I'll ignore the actual hand and just make a general comment.
If you truly know you're beat, there's only one reason that you're calling. you want to be proved 'right', you want him to show that he rivered you so that everyone can see that that nasty little rascal outdrew you and so that you can see that you must be a great poker player because you were 'right' about him rivering you.
Eliminate this from your mind. A truly good poker player does not need to be shown he is 'right' - he will just simply fold and move on if he is confident enough that he is beaten. Ego has no place in poker, nor does thinking in terms of 'right' and 'wrong'.
If you believe this may be an issue, I ramble on some more about relevant issues here.
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| Posted by: tiltboy at May 16, 2007, 10:51 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by joeeagles
Tiltboy, discipline is something you have to learn, it can't be taught. I perfectly understand what your problem is because at times it happens to me too, and its a pretty common problem. It particularly occurs when your opponent hits the miracle card, a 2 outer like in your ex. in OP, and you've invested alot in the pot.
Eventually you'll work it out, as long as you try ery hard to do so. There is a quote from Phil Gordon (from poker the real deal), I say it to myself before every session, it goes "Laying down a once-powerful hand in the face of overwhelming evidence that it's become second-best is a sign of a good poker player". Sounds like something you give for granted, yet it isn't. Look at your hand, the evidence was there but you called. Why? There are 2 reasons why this happens. The most common one is because you put alot in a pot already, other times just out of pure frustration. Think alot about it though, not being able ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: tiltboy at May 16, 2007, 10:47 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
[quote=FinalTable;543894]
I'm thinking you raised with MP and sucked out on turn. Then he just sucked you back out on the river.
[quote]
This is EXACTLY how I felt - I felt I sucked out but then had it taken right back from me on the river and just didn’t want to fold I was not so much mad at his play but the cards.
I sometimes worry about being wrong and finding out I should have called. Curiosity is not good.
I am new to poker so I hope that in time experience will enable me to adopt a mindset to separate myself from the pot I have contributed to.
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| Posted by: joeeagles at May 16, 2007, 4:25 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Tiltboy, discipline is something you have to learn, it can't be taught. I perfectly understand what your problem is because at times it happens to me too, and its a pretty common problem. It particularly occurs when your opponent hits the miracle card, a 2 outer like in your ex. in OP, and you've invested alot in the pot.
Eventually you'll work it out, as long as you try ery hard to do so. There is a quote from Phil Gordon (from poker the real deal), I say it to myself before every session, it goes "Laying down a once-powerful hand in the face of overwhelming evidence that it's become second-best is a sign of a good poker player". Sounds like something you give for granted, yet it isn't. Look at your hand, the evidence was there but you called. Why? There are 2 reasons why this happens. The most common one is because you put alot in a pot already, other times just out of pure frustration. Think alot about it though, not being able to do this means you're not a good poker player (and i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FinalTable at May 16, 2007, 12:32 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
If I was him - I would think I hit top pair with okay kicker and you bet into him. A lot of people play runners so he wants to see the flop. He flops top pair so of course he's going to call your bet. He's probably putting you on top pair also and thinking it's going to come down to kicker.
When the 8 came, he is trying to decide if you raised with MP or if you have an overpair. With top pair I'd probably call and see what happens on river. Hard to lay down top pair - harder for some people. Then the 10 hits and he knows he has the best hand.
I'm thinking you raised with MP and sucked out on turn. Then he just sucked you back out on the river.
Not a bad play for you - but hard to fault the other guy too.
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| Posted by: tiltboy at May 15, 2007, 11:33 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Thanks for you input, its something for me to consider because i really need to work on this.
In your example, i would call because i feel the only hand that could beat me is the straight but if i had bet big pre flop and flop it annoys me to think that the guy could have called those bets and get rewarded.
Theres a psychological aspect i'm also having problems with in terms of neglecting rational reasoning for emotional feelings in this situation.
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| Posted by: shinedown.45 at May 15, 2007, 11:07 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by tiltboy
Hi guys,
I really have an issue in terms of folding hands. I'm okay folding 90% of the time but i find it really hard to fold when i know someone has rivered.
eg. this is an actual hand (bets not important here)
me Ad-8d
player Jh-10s
Comm cards
5d-8c-10d-8s-10h
all the way i have been betting and he calls until the river where he reraises me, at this point i know im beat but i am so annoyed i end up calling to my disgust.
What i cant understand is why i call in situations i know im beat, particularly when i know the river has won it for him part of me feels i have contributed to this pot and he just stole it at the end.
Does anyone have this problem? if so how do you become good at laydowns or better still acknowleding once you bet to the pot the money is no longer yours.
some might disagree with me but this mentality has worked for me.
I never believe i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: tiltboy at May 15, 2007, 10:27 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Ok, lets say the betting went like this
Blinds $0.50/$1
Preflop
He Calls $1
I raise $4
SB folds
BB folds
He Calls $4
Flop (pot $9.50)
5d-8c-10d
He Checks
I bet $6
He calls $6
Turn (pot $21.50)
8s
He Checks
I bet $12
He calls $12
River ($45)
10h
He Bets $15
I call $15
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| Posted by: jayneseo at May 15, 2007, 10:06 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by tiltboy
eg. this is an actual hand (bets not important here)
Bets are VERY important if you want some real help!
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| Posted by: tiltboy at May 15, 2007, 9:53 am | | Topic: Help I just cant fold Forum: Card Chat |
Hi guys,
I really have an issue in terms of folding hands. I'm okay folding 90% of the time but i find it really hard to fold when i know someone has rivered.
eg. this is an actual hand (bets not important here)
me Ad-8d
player Jh-10s
Comm cards
5d-8c-10d-8s-10h
all the way i have been betting and he calls until the river where he reraises me, at this point i know im beat but i am so annoyed i end up calling to my disgust.
What i cant understand is why i call in situations i know im beat, particularly when i know the river has won it for him part of me feels i have contributed to this pot and he just stole it at the end.
Does anyone have this problem? if so how do you become good at laydowns or better still acknowleding once you bet to the pot the money is no longer yours.
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