| Posted by: NineLions at October 16, 2007, 5:23 pm | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
This may be too advanced for what you're looking for, but for on-line one exercise that I have yet to try (I will soon) is to play with a sticky note over top of your cards. You base your play entirely upon your reads of the other players. I've also heard of people doing the same but with only one card showing, as well as people playing live without looking at their cards either.
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| Posted by: Seneku at October 15, 2007, 6:44 pm | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Any advice on getting reads on people when 4-tabling? Currently I'm just paying attention to obvious things (like people betting way to much preflop and postflop) and I use my PA HUD a lot.
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| Posted by: phatjose at October 15, 2007, 5:14 pm | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by David Llanes
Okay, so let's say you get involved in a hand with some guy whom you have not seen play, not because he is tight but because the tournament started or he just got moved from another table?
Pay attention to things like how they are dressed and how they stack their chips. Sounds stupid, but people that are dressed neatly and stack their chips in the same manner tend to be more conservative. People that have a "sloppy" appearance, either dress or chip stacking, tend to be looser.
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| Posted by: OzExorcist at October 15, 2007, 5:30 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Thanks
I don't claim the stuff that I'm posting is particularly original, BTW - the 'pick on the players you can beat' idea is straight from Phil Gordon's Little Green Book, for example. Give that a read if you get the time, it's most educational.
Best of luck
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| Posted by: CubanaD64 at October 15, 2007, 5:09 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
That really is some good advice, Oz. I'll be sure to incorporate everything that you and everyone else has told me into my play, hopefully it'll pay off. I also hope to improve my own play and my reading ability. Thanks so much guys.
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| Posted by: 111-THEMAD-111 at October 15, 2007, 5:03 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Good answer Oz!!!!!!!
That's what I was thinking. Let the other folks at the table take the risk. Just watch and snag chips from the ones you CAN read................
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| Posted by: OzExorcist at October 15, 2007, 4:25 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Now you're delving ery much into a black art
The short answer is there really is no easy way, especially if they're actually good at mixing up their play. Patterns or glimpses of reads should still start to emerge over time (for example, ery general reads like this person is only playing TAG style hands, or they're playing a loose style), but in the first instance you probably just need to concentrate on playing solid poker yourself - scale back the buffing and subtle moves and just play things by the books until you get a better handle on the player.
There's another option too, of course, and it's probably the easier one - unless you're playing heads up, there should be a bunch of other players at the table. So just avoid the player you can't read, and focus on taking chips from the other players instead. You don't always have to beat every player at the table - you just need to be able to take money off a few of them.
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| Posted by: CubanaD64 at October 15, 2007, 4:17 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Well suppose this player mixes up his/her play ery well and consistently, how would you go around trying to figure out the range of his/her hand if they have no apparent pattern?
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| Posted by: Emperor IX at October 15, 2007, 3:48 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by juiceeQ
The main thing is to pay attention. Pay attention to betting patterns, and what they show down at the end of the hand (if they do). If they're involved in a hand, and end up mucking at showdown, take a look at the hand history and see what they mucked to get an idea of types of hands they may be playing with, and the type of betting they're doing. There's really no set behaviors to look for, IMO, as everyone/every situation is different.
^^ Jackpot
Another thing to keep in mind is that you're not trying to figure out their exact hands though, the thing that most players do is decide a players RANGE (Such as 77+, AJs+) and then figuring out if anything in that range is beating you.
All the action in the hand can help you narrow down ranges on opponents, and by paying attention, it can benefit you by learning how loose/tight/passive/aggressive they are, which only further narrows the ranges.
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| Posted by: Insomniac_1006 at October 15, 2007, 2:06 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by David Llanes
Yea tells would probably get to be pretty important in live games, but I play mostly online, so I can't rely on tells too much, plus sometimes tells are unreliable, from my experience at least.
You have a point there, but I guess I am just going to have to read the whole book and see if there is anything in it that I can apply to on-line play.
Cheers
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| Posted by: CubanaD64 at October 15, 2007, 1:48 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Yea tells would probably get to be pretty important in live games, but I play mostly online, so I can't rely on tells too much, plus sometimes tells are unreliable, from my experience at least.
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| Posted by: Insomniac_1006 at October 15, 2007, 1:37 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
I just bought Caro's Book of Tells. It should help me in this area.
Bet someone else has read it and can give you more details.
Cheers
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| Posted by: OzExorcist at October 15, 2007, 1:25 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
The thing you've gotta remember about Daniel Negranu is that you're invariably seeing edited TV highlights - for every amazing read he makes where he says "I think you've got jacks" and it turns out to be true, there's another dozen hands where his read isn't as accurate. Those hands just don't get shown on TV.
That said, he is a generally good reader of people. And he got to be one of those at the poker table by playing thousands upon thousands upon thousands of hands and paying close attention to the way people play. No substitute for experience there unfortunately.
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| Posted by: CubanaD64 at October 15, 2007, 1:02 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Okay, thanks alot for your help so far. So how should I go about developing my reading abilities? I see pros like Daniel Negranu making some amazing reads and decisions that I just can't possibly imagine myself making. Is it just a result of playing alot of poker over time or is there some way to help develop it?
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| Posted by: OzExorcist at October 15, 2007, 12:59 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
You might be able to get a general sort of read within a few hands on someone, but for a read to be even the slightest bit reliable, you need to have observed the player over a number of hands.
This doesn't mean you can't play hands with them in the meantime, but you probably need to proceed with caution - don't go making outrageous bluffs or plays that require some subtlety of understanding on your opponent's part until you get an idea of how they play.
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| Posted by: CubanaD64 at October 15, 2007, 12:55 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
Okay, so let's say you get involved in a hand with some guy whom you have not seen play, not because he is tight but because the tournament started or he just got moved from another table?
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| Posted by: juiceeQ at October 15, 2007, 12:37 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
The main thing is to pay attention. Pay attention to betting patterns, and what they show down at the end of the hand (if they do). If they're involved in a hand, and end up mucking at showdown, take a look at the hand history and see what they mucked to get an idea of types of hands they may be playing with, and the type of betting they're doing. There's really no set behaviors to look for, IMO, as everyone/every situation is different.
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| Posted by: CubanaD64 at October 15, 2007, 12:27 am | | Topic: Question: Reading your opponent Forum: Card Chat |
How do you develop a good read on your opponents and what are some things you can look for to be able to narrow down your opponents hole cards to at least something accurate?
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