| Posted by: royalburrito24 at December 3, 2007, 5:49 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by dj11
DUCY = Do you see why?
ohhhhhhh
Quote: Originally Posted by anquish
Well, at the time, I was like, "This probly won't even make any sense", but I still posted it, and now that I think about it, it's a perfect analogy, DUCY?
yes i see why...
lol
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| Posted by: royalburrito24 at December 3, 2007, 5:32 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by anquish
i'm bad go look at HHs in random events. i open with J2o and stuff.
oh man you are good!
i cant play you!
i will lose all me lucky charms ...err...pot o gold....errr
my money will be gone!
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| Posted by: vanquish at December 3, 2007, 5:29 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by royalburrito24
precisely my plan
i have never seen him play, so i do not want to end up losing all me monies
i'm bad go look at HHs in random events. i open with J2o and stuff.
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| Posted by: royalburrito24 at December 3, 2007, 5:24 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by combuboom
lol you'll maybe play if the ravens win
translation: when hell freezes over
precisely my plan
i have never seen him play, so i do not want to end up losing all me monies
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| Posted by: royalburrito24 at December 3, 2007, 5:05 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by anquish
Heads-up 4 rollz tonight after Pats game?
most likely sure. Depending on who wins the pats game..Pats win, I dont play, ravens win? then maybe we will play
Acronym, try to pronounce it out loud.
still dont get it, you are probably better off just telling me or leaving it alone
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| Posted by: vanquish at December 3, 2007, 4:54 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by royalburrito24
yea its a ery nice post, you should try playing drunk some time....against me
Heads-up 4 rollz tonight after Pats game?
Quote: Originally Posted by royalburrito24
and i might need clarification on the word "DUCY"
Acronym, try to pronounce it out loud.
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| Posted by: royalburrito24 at December 3, 2007, 4:46 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
yea its a ery nice post, you should try playing drunk some time....against me
and i might need clarification on the word "DUCY"
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| Posted by: vanquish at December 3, 2007, 4:43 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Well, at the time, I was like, "This probly won't even make any sense", but I still posted it, and now that I think about it, it's a perfect analogy, DUCY?
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| Posted by: royalburrito24 at December 3, 2007, 4:40 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by anquish
I stand by the post I made when I was drunk. (read above)
doesnt seem like you are drunk....
then again i hardly drink and probably wouldnt know the difference
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| Posted by: royalburrito24 at December 3, 2007, 3:29 am | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
imo there is nothing worse than a check-raise bluff that goes wrong. I normally dont do it on a ragged flop. Normally i will check raise bluff when there is a QQ5 on the board or something like that because if they are betting, most likely they are bluffing as well and it is ery easy to represent that Q.
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| Posted by: reglardave at December 3, 2007, 3:24 am | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
It's a great move against an aggressive opponent when you hit a monster, but you need a pretty good reaf on the other player, 'cause you want alue, and checking to someone who checks behind doesn't get it. Normally, as Chuck pointed out, leading with a strong hand often gets better results.
But, say you hit a dream flop, boat on the flop for example. I will often check, and if you get a bet, check call first; check again at 4th st., and then hit the rerause. There's little risk involved, and the worst that can happen is illain will slow down and check behind, but if this happens you were gonna lose him anyway..
Because I play at low stakes, I find using the check/raise as a bluff is ery dangerous; you'll be in against opponents who don't understand the concept.
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| Posted by: t1riel at December 3, 2007, 1:49 am | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by wsorbust
Not to take the thread off topic or anything....T1riel, I'm just wondering, are you playing mainly live or online these days?
Live.
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| Posted by: zachvac at December 3, 2007, 1:18 am | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Let's look at some situations:
1. You have monster, other guy has drawing hand
I'd never check-raise here, gives a free card if they don't bet
2. You think you have the nuts and opponent is drawing dead
If they simply have a lesser monster (such as set over set), a bet will work just as well as a check raise, and they'll probably even raise your bet, which you can then re-raise. If they have crap, check-raising gives you an extra bet. But check-calling gives them another opportunity to bluff at it
3. You have the lesser hand, but you're drawing to a better one
Although it works as a semi-bluff (and a free card if they check behind you), the problem is you give action back to your opponent, they can then raise, forcing you to fold. The best would be a call and then you hitting, and your hand would be ery well disguised
4. You have the lesser hand, and you only win if they fold
This is the place I like it the most. If you're with an opponent who likes to... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Chris_TC at December 3, 2007, 12:33 am | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Since every player is so aggressive these days, checkraising is certainly a iable option.
I much prefer a checkcall though. All the overaggressive players usually misinterpret it as weakness and bet out a 2nd time. I've stacked people who had Ace King high that way. You can really get people to bluff their money away.
This is Phil Hellmuth's style of playing. And it really does work, especially on the internet where everybody and their mother thinks they have to win every pot and be aggressive all the time.
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| Posted by: wsorbust at December 2, 2007, 11:42 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote:
Since most players DON'T use the check raise, or even the reraise, they don't have a good enough understanding of what it's power is.
I would have to agree and say it's one of the most powerful tools of NLHE, and probably one of the last moves/plays a player learns & will truly understand when attempting to implement the game in an efficient manner. That's my opinion, I'm surely no pro, but, It's probably a good idea to know your opponent. Check that link above.
Not to take the thread off topic or anything....T1riel, I'm just wondering, are you playing mainly live or online these days?
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| Posted by: OzExorcist at December 2, 2007, 10:08 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by combuboom
i love playing against people who never check raise. they're usually pretty easy to play against. once they check to me on the flop or turn, i can make my decision irtually knowing i don't have to worry about being raised if i bet and also knowing they're rarely strong.
There's an interesting accompaniment to this - in my (admittedly brief) experience, players like the ones you describe rarely recognise the strength represented by your check-raise either.
This bodes ill if you're using it as a bluff, of course, but it can be a way to get more of their money into the pot if you think they'd have just called a straight alue bet.
Having said all that, I probably don't check-raise enough.
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| Posted by: combuboom at December 2, 2007, 4:01 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by royalburrito24
the only time I really check raise is when its the river, and I am holding close to the nuts and I know that my opponent will bet at the pot.
it's a mistake, in my opinion, if you're not check raising in other spots. i love playing against people who never check raise. they're usually pretty easy to play against. once they check to me on the flop or turn, i can make my decision irtually knowing i don't have to worry about being raised if i bet and also knowing they're rarely strong. it's quite a luxury. these days you risk becoming too predictable if you're really rarely check raising. that being said, it's not the be-all end-all and you don't wanna overuse it either
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| Posted by: dweezel at December 2, 2007, 4:01 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
I think the C/R is better in live play than online.
People will call anything online and slow play monsters alot .
Online its easier to C/R your chips away IMO especially when the nuts turns into the second best hand by the river.
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| Posted by: dj11 at December 2, 2007, 3:56 pm | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
Since most players DON'T use the check raise, or even the reraise, they don't have a good enough understanding of what it's power is.
There are a lot of players who overuse it.
It is a tool. It is a bit more powerful than an intentional minraise with monsters. Stick it in your poker toolbag and bring it out when it is the right tool to use.
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| Posted by: Aalgaard at December 2, 2007, 6:49 am | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
I think it realy depends on the situation. If I want a call, and I think I can get it, I'll bet.
If a player is in a situation where he bets all the time, I choose check raise. I use checkraise quite a lot in Turbo if I know I have the winning hand.
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| Posted by: ChuckTs at December 2, 2007, 5:52 am | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
It has it's spots but generally I like to lead with monsters because it'll build a bigger pot and disguise your hand more.
dbitel covers the topic nicely here: Leading out s C/R
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| Posted by: royalburrito24 at December 2, 2007, 5:43 am | | Topic: Check-Raising overrated? Forum: Card Chat |
My experience with check raising only really works when I am bluff check raising. When I pick up a monster, check raising is one of the farthest things from my mind. In my experience, check raising gives your opponents an even better excuse to exit the hand.
Sure check raising gets you that extra little chips from the guy with nothing, but I feel that the play is overrated unless your opponent has the second nuts to your stone cold nuts.
the only time I really check raise is when its the river, and I am holding close to the nuts and I know that my opponent will bet at the pot.
Any thoughts on the move?
Is it overrated or am I not using it enough?
Lets create a poll!
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