| Posted by: bustme at January 15, 2008, 11:49 pm | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
1. You are aggressive preflop
2. You are not passive postflop, you are in between ( neutral)
3.It is wery few players who masters LAG, so I dont now if the neutral postflop play will make you more money.
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| Posted by: switch0723 at January 15, 2008, 6:31 pm | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by bustme
It is better to play LAG -with a neutral post flop play..........
But that completely removes the AG part of LAG. It makes you just an L or a losse passive player, one of the worst player type you can be. Raising pre flop and betting missed flops is how LAG players make money, they play situation and the board more than their cards
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| Posted by: bustme at January 15, 2008, 9:20 am | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
I will say that the key here is read on the player.
If you play LAG without reads on the players you are a donk in my opinion
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| Posted by: YoungGunKid at January 15, 2008, 4:34 am | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
I think this is a high quality thread totally.LAG style is extremely profitable throughout games and tourneys,but the trick is to refrain from crazy bluffs when your way behind and wont to win,or you have a marginal hand and are trying to bluff as if to have the nuts and you get caught.But getting caught once or twice isnt all that bad,as it can give you more profit down the line as the TAG"s will call you a little more frequently thinking you have a stink or marginal hand.Great input Chuck and Switch
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| Posted by: bustme at January 14, 2008, 11:00 pm | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by c9h13no3
Okay, so we all know that playing tight & aggressive gives you the best shot to be profitable online, ect. ect. No debates there.
But sometimes I just get bored playing nothing but the premium hands, and I play a lot of live home games against a regular crew of guys, so loosening up and seeing more flops, I think, has some possible benefits.
For the sake of this argument, I'm talking about ring games, not tournaments.
So first, what advantages are there to playing loose, and is there a playstyle that we can adopt to maximize these advantages? And can we make some comments about what sort of hands we're willing to play against the usual TAGS?
I'll start with the first question I posed: What advantage is there to playing loose?
1) Implied odds. If we can get into a flop cheaply, we may flop 2-pair,
a straight, ect. and we can really milk a lot of alue when TAG players hit weaker (but still good) hold... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: OzExorcist at January 14, 2008, 1:04 am | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
I agree with Zach, Chuck and Switch - for the most part it's about aggression and finding the right situations. Not the cards themselves.
That said, there's a few hands that I think make for problems with this style: hands in the JT/T9/T8 range specifically, because often when they hit, they're hitting the bottom end of the flops that our TAG opponents are hitting. I find something like 78 much easier to play.
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| Posted by: dufferdevon at January 12, 2008, 8:06 am | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
After watching the small ball ideos by Daniel (I can call him that 'cause we're both Canadian eh). And tried it in some free roll tourneys tonight. You would think that against other loose fish this system wouldn't work, well just the opposite !! I was in the top 5 in chips most of the night, they couldn't hand me their chips fast enough.
I still have to let go of some hands earlier, but the loose aggressive style can work. Position is really important. Look at those ideos, they are great and have fun at some free rolls.
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| Posted by: zachvac at January 12, 2008, 5:57 am | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by c9h13no3
For example, I'm in my home game, and one of the typical textbook TAG's is on the button, where I know he will play most any 2 face cards to see a flop with.
Do you understand what TAG means? I ask this in all honesty, not trying to be mean, because someone who will play any 2 face cards to see a flop is not a "typical textbook TAG". Basically Tight refers to preflop, where he plays a small selection of hands, premiums. Aggressive means that postflop whether he misses or hits he will push, obviously making reads after seeing reactions. So when you say:
Quote: Originally Posted by c9h13no3
Thus, I don't mind raising with T8s, since I can mostly likely win a small pot when he misses
I question it because if he is truly aggressive he will play, well, aggressively.
Quote: Originally Posted by c9h13no3
The trick is, should I be making that move with just any 2 cards? Or shoul... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: c9h13no3 at January 12, 2008, 2:48 am | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
Yeah, I realize that when you loosen up, and who you target when you loosen up is more important than the actual cards being played. However, maybe I'm trying to be too selective.
For example, I'm in my home game, and one of the typical textbook TAG's is on the button, where I know he will play most any 2 face cards to see a flop with. Thus, I don't mind raising with T8s, since I can mostly likely win a small pot when he misses, and a big pot when we both hit. However, I'm probably not going to try this move with 72os, because it has less of a chance of hitting big in that "when we both hit the flop" scenario. I always thought of the drawing ability of the cards most lags play as the "backup plan" for when we can't take down the pot with just a c-bet.
The trick is, should I be making that move with just any 2 cards? Or should I actually be selective about my starting hand criteria, even when I'm not playing the cards so much as playing the situation & the player... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: ChuckTs at January 11, 2008, 10:28 pm | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
I think you're stressing too much on certain types of hands and not enough on situations in general. I think things like position, your opponents tendencies and game flow are much more important.
Like zach said, you win when you hit, but you also win when your opponent misses which means that we don't really need all that much hand selection.
To give you a ery general answer, I'd say that as a lag we should be going down the same road TAGs take in late position, but just take it x steps farther depending on how passive your table is. I mean hell, you don't need hand selection if you're on the button with two tagfish in the blinds - we can raise literally any two cards.
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| Posted by: zachvac at January 11, 2008, 7:26 pm | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
Forget which book I read that mentioned this, but there is definitely a fine line between a good LAG player and a fish. But the majority of hands shown down by the LAG player will be the better hand, and the fish will just call down because "hey, I could win". The LAG player, although ery loose and aggressive, doesn't like aggression and will often fold to a re-raise PF because, as mentioned above, it takes away their shot to be the aggressor.
The theory behind LAG strategy is "you win when you hit, and you win when your opponents miss". Obviously this is the ast majority of the time, but it's not easy to play.
I think TAG is still slightly more profitable (but as a TAG you must also open up a little with position), but it's not just because all the players are loose, which sometimes isn't even true. The profitability from playing LAG also comes from the image. If you have an image of being loose, playing a lot of hands, opponents will sometimes make the mistake of ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: switch0723 at January 11, 2008, 6:50 pm | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
my playing style is definately ery lag, but there is a fine line between a succesful lag player and a fish. As a lag player, you dont need to be calling any raises pre flop with anything but premiums, since it ruins the change of being the agressor. I ery ery ery rarely call raises pre flop, i generally fold to them or re raise them. Also as a lag player, that doesnt mean you should be raising every hand, you still want to be selective with your hands, but it generally means you want to be raising pre flop when first into pot with hands such as j,t q,t 7,8, 2,2, a,a, 5,7s and also you generally need to be playing position and make sure you arent oop as a lag player as people will not give you credit for hands, so you need for them to act first. So you want to still only play hands that can be succesful on the flop.
Also you said you can call a raise from tag player with ace rag, big nono since that generally means you are dominated
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| Posted by: c9h13no3 at January 11, 2008, 2:45 pm | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by nick1611
not really. If the rest of the table is ery tight then obviously playing loose will be better than tight
Yeah, but online, generally there are enough loose players to make the table well suited to playing TAG. I didn't really wanna open this can of worms. I mainly wanted to think about what kinds of hands we should attack the big stacked TAGs at the table with.
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| Posted by: nick1611 at January 11, 2008, 8:37 am | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by c9h13no3
Okay, so we all know that playing tight & aggressive gives you the best shot to be profitable online, ect. ect. No debates there.
not really. If the rest of the table is ery tight then obviously playing loose will be better than tight
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| Posted by: c9h13no3 at January 11, 2008, 7:28 am | | Topic: Playing LAG: Hand Chart Forum: Card Chat |
Okay, so we all know that playing tight & aggressive gives you the best shot to be profitable online, ect. ect. No debates there.
But sometimes I just get bored playing nothing but the premium hands, and I play a lot of live home games against a regular crew of guys, so loosening up and seeing more flops, I think, has some possible benefits.
For the sake of this argument, I'm talking about ring games, not tournaments.
So first, what advantages are there to playing loose, and is there a playstyle that we can adopt to maximize these advantages? And can we make some comments about what sort of hands we're willing to play against the usual TAGS?
I'll start with the first question I posed: What advantage is there to playing loose?
1) Implied odds. If we can get into a flop cheaply, we may flop 2-pair,
a straight, ect. and we can really milk a lot of alue when TAG players hit weaker (but still good) holdings.
2) Picking off C-bets. When flops come... | | Read Entire Entry |
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