| Posted by: smd173 at November 16, 2005, 12:54 pm | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
This whole thread just reminds me again why I don't care for NL cash games. No matter what the limit, there will always be someone there who $500 doesn't mean much to them, or is willing to gamble with bad cards to moderate cards.
Everyone always says, "I can't wait to have them at my table". Yet go and look at all of the bad beat threads. It's the reason people get so pissy at the poker table these days. They can't stand to play "perfect poker" and get sucked out on the river by someone who is gambling. But they are more acceptable to losing if they have a top 10 s. top 10 hand.
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| Posted by: VegasGrinder at November 16, 2005, 12:34 pm | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
Tells online and the auto buttons can be off totaly. I and many others actualy use the auto button when holding the nuts, just to try and catch someone who thinks it is a tell. not every time, but we do mix it up.
Online, Preflop you can't put someone on a hand.
The original poster was talking about making calls 4X the BB preflop with marginal hands. He is going in as Dog. Any time you are calling with the worse hand, you aren't playing profitable poker, PERIOD!
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| Posted by: xdmanx007 at November 15, 2005, 6:15 am | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
Well that is the beauty of poker their isn't one single "right" or wrong way to play.
I think their are 3 ways to play:
Bad = you lose money
Good= Break Even, arguably niether good or bad but simply a waste of time.
Best= Consistantly make a profit
So when you see me type the "best" way to play a hand, I am telling you the play I believe gives you the best chance of achieving a consistant profit.
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| Posted by: twizzybop at November 15, 2005, 3:39 am | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
It is hard to put someone on a hand preflop online. Live is a differant story, that is where tells come in.
You also have tells online as well.. for instance the auto button. Most of the time a quick check means person has nothing. A quick call or re-raise means strength. A flush hits on the turn and they bet quickl(means they have it).
That auto check.fold,raise button is a killer to those who don't know it is a tell.(slow down for a few seconds and then do your action). Another tell is someones betting patterns. Someone that bets after the flop say 120 chips evertime he has top pair on the board. Someone who is tight and only plays premium hands. Those are easy to spot cause there chip count hasn't changed dramatically say the past 20 hands cause he folds all his hands.
For instance you have a fellow that calls you all the way down to the river. You had better have something cause he lives in missouri(the show me state) and wants you to show what you have.
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| Posted by: VegasGrinder at November 15, 2005, 3:19 am | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
You can have all the psychology and learning what your opponent might have, but if you are still going in as a dog majority of the time...You will go broke over time.
I assume you are talking about online poker. It is hard to put someone on a hand preflop online. Live is a differant story, that is where tells come in.
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| Posted by: tdfarls1103 at November 14, 2005, 6:17 pm | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
I agree with the fact that it is a game of mathematics. You need to know the pot odds and the odds you have the best hand and things of that nature. But it is also about psychology and learning what your opponent may have. I think even more important than the math aspect are both your gut feelings and your psychological knowledge of the game and of your opponents.
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| Posted by: VegasGrinder at November 14, 2005, 12:56 pm | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
The strategy being talked about is nothing new. It is a strategy used when someone doesn't want to get out played post flop. Over long haul it is a losing strategy because they go in as a dog majority of the time. The odds come out over time. The math doesn't lie.
Short Term it can be a good strategy when up against players with a higher skill level than you have (If you are lucky that day).
The style is easy to beat but you have to have the cards to beat them. A tight aggressive style will break this style of player (Unless you are Card Dead).
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| Posted by: xdmanx007 at November 11, 2005, 5:23 pm | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by KidHavok
again, you guys have tried to pick on my comments taking them out of text. All I am saying is that I do not going into a pot being the dog, when there is a multiple of players. Do I want to play 22 s 77 heads up, Hell NO!!!!!!!! Again, I do not lose $500 every month. Actually I usually end up a couple hundred winner for the month.
First of all, I play diffrent than anyone else here (that I know of). It seems I play larger games with bigger buy ins. I usually buy a little more than the minimum. I want pot odds!! Also, for those who know what implied odds are, I REALLY REALLY WANT IMPLIED ODDS!!!!! I can walk into a casino or go to an internet site and buy in 200-300 and cash out well over 1500 easily with my style of game and I am running in the BLACK. I am probably not up as much as you grinders in the $2/4 limit game, but poker is not really a source of income. $50 will not do alot for me, but on the other hand $1500 (i can do something with), p... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KidHavok at November 11, 2005, 5:08 pm | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
thank you bill for not trying to find failures in my english, instead you are looking at my poker theory. You know we can all "QUOTE" or we call use this board for learning... I would prefer to learn, if this is going to be a "quote" forum, then I am in the wrong place. And your right bill, the games that I play in: have minimum and maximum buyins. I appreciate all your responses...CHAD
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| Posted by: KidHavok at November 11, 2005, 3:44 pm | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
again, you guys have tried to pick on my comments taking them out of text. All I am saying is that I do not going into a pot being the dog, when there is a multiple of players. Do I want to play 22 s 77 heads up, Hell NO!!!!!!!! Again, I do not lose $500 every month. Actually I usually end up a couple hundred winner for the month.
First of all, I play diffrent than anyone else here (that I know of). It seems I play larger games with bigger buy ins. I usually buy a little more than the minimum. I want pot odds!! Also, for those who know what implied odds are, I REALLY REALLY WANT IMPLIED ODDS!!!!! I can walk into a casino or go to an internet site and buy in 200-300 and cash out well over 1500 easily with my style of game and I am running in the BLACK. I am probably not up as much as you grinders in the $2/4 limit game, but poker is not really a source of income. $50 will not do alot for me, but on the other hand $1500 (i can do something with), plus I do not gamble money that I cannot afford to los... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: xdmanx007 at November 11, 2005, 7:15 am | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
OH MY! How could this one slip through the cracks for so long on me! You have gotten some replies "reaching" for positives in your style. If I didn't know the posters I might suspect they were trying to encourage you, so that you continue to pad their bankrolls! The only arguement in your favor was if this was a style for turbo tournaments. Since you said .5/1 that means you are talking about cash games.
Now to the meat of your post. You are basically saying you like to call large preflop raises when you are quite likely way behind in the hand. You say you do this because in the overall sceme of things 4 bucks isn't a lot of money. This strategy at best can be called misguided at worst we would we immediatelly announce "we have a live one" as soon as you sit down! You are quite likely to win a big pot or 2 but those pots will NOT make up for all those large preflop bets you lose when you don't hit a monster! The only thing you state that should be listened to is, you don't... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: juiceeQ at November 11, 2005, 6:32 am | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Freakakanus
All I know is that if I could lose 500$ a month and it not be a thing, I'd be one happy camper. God I hate being poor.
Ah, but Freak, look at your beautiful family! I say you are a ery rich man...even if you didn't have two nickels to rub together...
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| Posted by: Bill_Hollorian at November 11, 2005, 3:51 am | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
You are not talking about no limit holdem. In real No Limit Holdem you are more correct. Is there a limit on how much you can buy in for? If so, you are playing baby no limit.
You are describing what is called a deepstack game, although I disagree with some of your plays. The issue is if you double someone through a few times can you rebuy so that you have more chips than him? The "no limit games" that have limits on how much you can buy in for is a totally differnet game, in which this strategy has a low expected alue. If you are playing real no limit... You are scratching the surface of big stack strategy. The important thing is that you can always rebuy and be the biggest stack at the table.
Bill
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| Posted by: KillerKat at November 11, 2005, 1:08 am | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
Ya i think what your saying is partly true, books are only a guideline to get you going at first.They teach you the fundamentals. Each table you play at is so different from the other. the basics are the same. You got to get a feel for the table your at,see what the players are like. A raise on one table might not achieve the same results as another ect ect.
Great for you If you if you can lose that sort of money in a month( I think that says it all) Move up in limits, you need a challenge. Otherwise play bingo.
l
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| Posted by: twizzybop at November 11, 2005, 12:57 am | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
I dont make a ton of money but I can lose almost 500 a month at poker and it will not change my lifestyle.
Must be nice to have money to throw away like it is water. Reminds me of that guy who goes into a convience store and blows 100+ a day on lottery tickets without a care in the world.. It is called gambling and there is something called gambling anonymous for this reason.
So, just because to raise 4x the BB, that doesnt mean anything.
Last I recalled it means a premium top 10 pre-flop hand. Yes when someone uses the 4X the BB strategy, he/she had better hope that he isn't called or raised by someone holding a premuim top 10 pre-flop hand. So I'd say the norm and most people go by this norm of 3-4X or more pre-flop when holding a premuim hand.
This shows that raising by what some book tells you to, isnt worth its weight in gold.
Yes and call with K.10 all you want.. A king comes you have to hope that the person isn't holding AA KK AK.. So your willing to wish a ki... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: gordo30 at November 11, 2005, 12:30 am | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
i can,t help thinking that these types of structured betting only really applies to tournament play as even in high level ring games theres always someone more affluent than you willing to bet bigger.whereas in tournament play you have to look ahead.
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| Posted by: Crippler450 at November 10, 2005, 9:57 pm | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
I think that this type of play happens when you are playing limits that are too low. The mathematical style of play that you're referring to generally works best long-term in a type of game where you're not playing too high or too low of limits. You may call 7x BB with KQ suited in .5/.10 blinds, but would you in $20/$40? People play sloppier in lower limit games because they can afford to lose more, and they probably will (since they are playing more wrecklessly and relying more on luck in the short-term)
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| Posted by: KidHavok at November 10, 2005, 9:12 pm | | Topic: Poker is a Game of Mathmatics but not a game of Math Forum: Card Chat |
I am just posting this thread to discuss mathmatical players. I am reading in all these posts about raise the preflop 3x, 4x, or 7x. Let me tell you one thing. If I sit at a game that is NL and blinds are .5 and 1, I will call a 7x bet with KQs, 7 dollars is not alot of money to me. You can say what you want about 7x or 4x the bb bet, but it all comes down to relative money. I dont make a ton of money but I can lose almost 500 a month at poker and it will not change my lifestyle. So, just because to raise 4x the BB, that doesnt mean anything. If somone thinks their hand is worth 3x,4x or 7x. then they will call. This shows that raising by what some book tells you to, isnt worth its weight in gold. Hence, I will fold 22 for 4x the BB but I would probably call for 7x the BB (and depending on the raiser). My 22 will get paid more for hitting on a hand that is raised more, I wont go all in preflop with them, but I will play them in bigger hands and muck them in rather small pots.... And I dont make my raise... | | Read Entire Entry |
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