| Posted by: Scouse at March 23, 2006, 2:17 pm | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
The short answer is yes.
If there are issues of being in or near the bubble, and several (lets say three) people have gone "all in" or made heavy bets, I would fold. Why?
Because heads up you have about a 75% chance of winning. This means 1 out of 4 times your aces will be cracked. Now if several people are going all in, with some small stacks and one or two big stacks, your odds have narrowed, and you have to think more carefully about calling (or raising!). If it means you are closer to the money (or whatever you are going for), you fold, it doesn't matter what you are holding. That to me is the difference between a gambler and a poker player.
As some say, play the game, play the players, but don't let the cards play you. (If you are trying to figure out who said this, it was me, just now).
It sounds to me like you played your position well, absorbed all the facts and then made a decision - I'd like to think I may have done the same as you.
Peace,... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: bredman4 at March 23, 2006, 2:12 pm | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
I have never thought about foding pokets aces, and dont think I would ever, If on the bubble in a sattelite, ummm...it might be considered, to get in the money, but its still a tough decision to fold em
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| Posted by: starfall at March 23, 2006, 10:24 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
Satellites make a lot of sense if you're good enough to pretty frequently end in the top 10 rankings, but not experienced enough in late tournament play to generally make the final table - for 1/10th of the entry fee you can have probably at least 1/4 chance of getting the tournament entry, so it's a cheap way to get entry. If you generally bust out of the MTTs fairly early on in the money, then it makes those placings a lot more profitable...
I oted for folding the pocket aces... the way to look at it in this specific situation is that you stand a better chance of getting the place sitting tight than playing aces, so you dump the aces...
In a normal tournament, this would ery rarely be a good play. Exceptions would be if the amount of money involved for placing is significant compared to your bankroll, or of greater importance to you. Examples - you've used the last of the money in your account, so you NEED a money placing, and a big win would be nice, but any win is a LOT more important, ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Dorkus Malorkus at March 23, 2006, 7:34 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Kj Sexton
(re-reads: Oh satellite, I was so blinded by the folded pocket aces I neglected to read that.
still ery, ery sad. I would have still called though, less of course this was the bubble position and the situation was the same. Even then I still might have called.... Then again, I really don't like satellites)
I can see why you don't like satellites.
Let's rephrase the original question - would you like a near-100% chance of winning an entry into the target tourney, or a ~80% chance of winning the entry? Ultimately, it doesn't matter whether you have 3 chips or 3 million chips in a satellite when the bubble bursts.
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| Posted by: Crippler450 at March 23, 2006, 5:10 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
of COURSE you fold them. Anyone who would play aces when folding them garantees the highest prize possible (like if places 1-25 all get the same entry into the next tourney) is lacking in common sense. Kj Sexton, if you had a 100% chance of winning entry into another tournament by folding AA, but only a 98% chance (MUCH higher than his real chances) of winning the hand if you call in then you have 2% chance of winning NOTHING. I guess you would play your aces just to prove a point. I'll take my sure bet and win entry into the next tournament 100 out of 100 times, not take a risk with no extra reward just out of blind principle.
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| Posted by: Ima6T4 at March 23, 2006, 5:02 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
In this scenario I see nothing wrong with laying them down. Playing for a sattellite seat, that's a more than understandable play. I have actually folded AA once in a money payout though.
Scenario: 16 players left, I'm 6th in chips and 9 places pay. Blinds are 400/800. UTG goes all in (appx 1800) Chip leader is next in position and he calls. Fold, fold, and the next player goes all in as well. This guy has been tighter than a dolphin's butt all night, and I just know he has the other 2 aces. I know that's the only hand he's going to bet like this. He has me by about 1000 chips. After using all of my time bank I fold. Goes around to the chip leader and he calls. Big stack-KK, Tight player-AA. Sure enough the K falls on the turn. In that situation I was so sure that our hands were split I actually ended up making the right call. And to this day it is still the only time I've ever layed them down pre-flop. (Took 2nd in that tourney in the end)
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| Posted by: Kj Sexton at March 23, 2006, 4:30 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
I've heard about people not having the guts to move the chips without the backing....
but not being able to move in your chips with the best hand is worse....
I want to know who were the 7 so far who oted fold,
so I can follow you around for eternity leeching your chips.
I know Aces get killed too often online, but you're seriously out of your minds....
No guts, No glory.
If you're looking to play it safe might as well quit poker.
....
(re-reads: Oh satellite, I was so blinded by the folded pocket aces I neglected to read that.
still ery, ery sad. I would have still called though, less of course this was the bubble position and the situation was the same. Even then I still might have called.... Then again, I really don't like satellites)
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| Posted by: ChuckTs at March 23, 2006, 4:03 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
this is what i mean:
payout for a satellite:
1st-10th: entry into X tournament
payout for a normal tourney
1st $X
2nd <1st's payout
3rd <2nd's payout
etc.
in a real tournament, you play to win, so you would be going all in without question, in order to build your stack up so you can have a large chip count and thus better your chances of taking 1st
In a satellite, the difference between 1st and 10th is no difference at all, you all get the same prize: entry into another tournament.
why risk an all in when you know you can win if you fold them?
if there are 13 people left and 3 go all in, why call if all you're doing is risking losing, when you could fold and guarantee yourself a spot in the next tourney?
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| Posted by: Cyclone306 at March 23, 2006, 3:55 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
Yes but your not winning Silver your losing gold. I suppose this is just my personal attitude because i feel that when you get a god hand like that you need to leverage it so that you can maximize it's efficency. Of course your taking a risk with 2 other all ins but that's why it's called gambling.
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| Posted by: traxxis at March 23, 2006, 3:52 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
yes i do fold aces preflop .. in your situation .. i would have because if your garenteed a spot .. why risk the all in .. you never know what happens on the flop ..cheers
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| Posted by: ChuckTs at March 23, 2006, 3:51 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
well the above example with the satellite gives a perfect example when you should
if several people have raised and reraised ahead of you, and you know that the money (or satellite prize) is only a few spots away, folding the hand and letting these people get eliminated would be a smart move
then again i would find it tough to do so, but it may be the smarter move
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| Posted by: Cyclone306 at March 23, 2006, 3:49 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
Yes, Agreed. I could see folding them post flop maybe if they board pairs up or you but him on Two Pair, etc. there are MANY circumstances where i've folded AA after the flop but NEVER NEVER NEVER should you EVER fold AA pre-flop.
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| Posted by: ChuckTs at March 23, 2006, 3:42 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
well considering the satellite situation, if i was on the bubble and several people pushed before me i might consider it
but like the well known poker saying goes; you've got to get your money in when you've got the best hand
either way i've never folded them PF before
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| Posted by: Cyclone306 at March 23, 2006, 3:40 am | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
Wow...Wow...I have never folded Aces preflop. Regardless of what they other players Did. Think about it. They can't possibly have a better hand than you...the WORST they could have is the same hand and even then it's a split pot.
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| Posted by: andybee at March 22, 2006, 10:44 pm | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
If your in a free roll with a lot of sit outs ......like last night and there are only 2 live players ask the other if he wants to share the blinds.......if you agree then the chip leader takes the first by raisin the big blind .........and wins the blinds .....then the chip leader folds his next hand and the other player raise the big blind.......you repeat this ........this is the only time i have ever folded AA pre flop!!!!!
When it comes to your own bb you suspend the order and keep your own big blinds if a third "live" person joins the table ....you offer then to join in the shareing if they accept they join the back of the que......if they dont want to then just play poker... if 4 join its best just to play poker. NEVER EVER EVER be tempted to cheat with the order just because you got a good hand.
If i see you tonight and theres only 2 live players I will be sure to ask if you want to share......now you know what to do
ANDYBEE
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| Posted by: Dorkus Malorkus at March 22, 2006, 6:04 pm | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by tenbob
What you described above is probably the ONLY situation youll come across where folding AA pre-flop is the correct move. You were going to win your place by folding anyway so why risk it.
Nice lay-down.
What he said, except for "probably" read "definitely".
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| Posted by: juiceeQ at March 22, 2006, 5:57 pm | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
Actually, there's already been an extensive discussion on this. See here.
In the future, you may want to do a search before starting a new thread, just to make sure the topic hasn't already been covered. Chances are, you'll probably find the answers you seek.
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| Posted by: tenbob at March 22, 2006, 5:55 pm | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
What you described above is probably the ONLY situation youll come across where folding AA pre-flop is the correct move. You were going to win your place by folding anyway so why risk it.
Nice lay-down.
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| Posted by: t1riel at March 22, 2006, 5:51 pm | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
What other hand would you rather have in that situation to call? Exactly. You have the best starting hand and you folded them? Granted, Pocket aces are not a sure thing but you have the best odds to win preflop.
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| Posted by: RogerBezerk at March 22, 2006, 3:59 pm | | Topic: Ever fold Aces preflop? Forum: Card Chat |
I have actually read about and discussed this a few times with some other players, but I have never had to deal with this decision UNTIL...
Last night I was in a satellite at Stars and there were 35 players left with 28 getting the entry in to the next tourney and 29th getting the leftovers. I had about 11,000 in chips and the blinds were like 200-400 or close to that. A short stack had like 2,500 and moved all-in. I had intentions of calling here with my AA from the button. Then the chipleader at my table reraised enough to cover me. (he had about 33,000) It was ery tough to do, but from this position I could most likely sitout and get the entry. I decided to fold my AA and hope that the poker universe would not frown on me and curse me to a year of 3 outters crushing me. I did get the entry about 10 minutes later. Just wondering if anyone else has ever dumped 'em preflop?
BTW the shortstack had JJ and the chipleader had KK. All blanks and my aces WOULD have held up. Oh well
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