| Posted by: Welly at July 7, 2006, 9:18 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
I have faith that all the major sites are completely legit. The problem generally is just with the nature of the game we play. It's the poker's fault!
The best way I think to convince yourself is to shuffle a pack of cards and deal out 10 hands face up, followed by the flop etc. If you dont have a bad beat within about 3 deals it will be a miracle.
Just need to be philosophical about it, and occasionally, just occasionally, stick your middle finger up at the screen
Take Care
Welly
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| Posted by: Beriac at July 7, 2006, 1:52 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by robwhufc
I'm sure you're right Beriac, but i'll ask you a question - have you played at more than one site over an extended period of time, and if so, have the cards fell the same one both sites?
Fair question. Full disclosure: I have done most of my playing on 3 sites, 2 of which are majors: Stars, Party, and Titan. I have never noticed a significantly different distribution of cards on any of them, and I have played at least 10k hands on all of them. Just cause I didn't notice them doesn't mean they didn't happen, but that's just my experience.
Best as I can tell, the cards fell the same. Here's food for thought, though: how the cards seem to fall will depend somewhat on your competition. If you play on the site with the best players on the net, let's say it's Full Tilt (I have NO idea), then you'll much more rarely suffer a bad beat than when you swim with the fishes at a site with bad players, as you'll less often have the best hand when... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: buckster436 at July 7, 2006, 12:26 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
there are NO rigged sites,,,,,,,,,LOL,,,LOL,,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>buck:hello :
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| Posted by: robwhufc at July 7, 2006, 10:55 am | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
Pokerstars and Party Poker are making huge profits. The other ones? The ones at the bottom? Titan etc? Some of the traffic at these sites is ery low (Check'n'Raise poker couldn't afford to send it's WSOP winners to the big event), so they HAVE got a ested interest in doing everything they can to keep players.
I'm not trying to argue against you - your post is the one I would have made if I hadn't played so many games on Titan (the reason I still play there if that comment was towards me? Because 88 of the 90 monthly site games are held there, and 8 of these (the weekend ones) have a hefty added pool ( I sat out accidently last Saturday - can 5th out of 9 and won $10 for a $5.50 buy in - I can put up with shit for easy money like that)).
I'm sure you're right Beriac, but i'll ask you a question - have you played at more than one site over an extended period of time, and if so, have the cards fell the same one both sites?
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| Posted by: Beriac at July 7, 2006, 10:38 am | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
This is fast becoming a depressing thread for me!
Here is my "pitch" for the side of: online poker sites, at least those of any repute, are not rigged in any way whatsoever. I'm not referring to flybynightpoker.com or wearegoingtostealyourmoneyifyoudeposithere.com. My arguments won't apply to them.
Here we go.
ONE. Online poker sites are massively profitable. Party Gaming, for example, earns hundreds of millions of pounds per year and is worth over 4 billion pounds! Other sites are similarly profitable, if somewhat smaller. These are huge numbers. These figures are not generated because of rigged pots, but because at any given time 10,000+ people are playing on multiple sites, sometimes much more than that! Most are playing in raked games. Imagine a casino with that many players. These companies are simply gold mines.
TWO. Let's think about this for a second. Currently, gambling is illegal in the United States in several districts and we keep seeing threads ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: robwhufc at July 7, 2006, 9:44 am | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by nateofdeath
Personally i think this is more a case of faulty observation, people seeing what they want to see based on a limited selection of hands and their own perdetermined ideas.
I'm sure, in reality, that this is probably the case for me - once you get an idea in your head, you only register examples that confirm to that idea and either ignore or not register examples that don't. The hands in my original thread happened though - in 3 other subsequant games the same thing happened twice, the big stack would get to 2000 - 2500, be all-in against the small stack with much the best hand, and the small stack gets the card needed to escape - the first of these I was the small stack (rivered full house against made straight). That was my observation, one that I had noticed previously, one that opponents had mentioned during chat in previous games, and one that i have seen 5 times out of the last 6 H2H games (hence my question).
The other "... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: nateofdeath at July 7, 2006, 6:59 am | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by ChuckTs
Mr Sticker:
I have the same iew about online poker.
I don't believe for a second that it's rigged. I really don't see the advantage for them of giving an edge for shortstacked players, or a 'bounceback' effect. I do believe, however that certain sites have their RNGs tweaked to make more 'action flops' to create more rake (cough cough *partypoker* cough - or so i've heard).
As for being 'rigged' to give certain players advantages over others, I just don't believe it.
this may be the dumbest thread of the year, but i am going to continue making serious posts in it.
I find this idea of the 'bounceback effect' to be ineteresting. the only argument that i have ever heard regarding online poker being rigged which actually explained how it would benefit the site is as follows; The site favors the big stack. If a player has considerably more chips then their oppenent, they are more likely to win, as in this way, playe... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: ChuckTs at July 7, 2006, 6:36 am | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
Mr Sticker:
Quote:
...but I believe in faulty randomness
I have the same iew about online poker.
I don't believe for a second that it's rigged. I really don't see the advantage for them of giving an edge for shortstacked players, or a 'bounceback' effect. I do believe, however that certain sites have their RNGs tweaked to make more 'action flops' to create more rake (cough cough *partypoker* cough - or so i've heard).
As for being 'rigged' to give certain players advantages over others, I just don't believe it.
Fish:
Quote:
Nomination for Dumbest Thread of 2006.
fourthed.
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| Posted by: nateofdeath at July 7, 2006, 6:17 am | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by jokkeman
I don't see why they should need to rigg a game. Especially in a Sit N Go.
They make so much money there is no need for them to do this...
that is the argument. there really is no point to it, but as our beloved moderator said in last week's game at stars in responce to the question if anyone really thinks its rigged, 'no, but it's fun to say'. in a way its nicer to think that you're being conspired against rather then it just being dumb luck.
-n
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| Posted by: Beriac at July 4, 2006, 6:45 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by JJPHENOM
i do love playing at stars, had money there about 2 weeks ago and blew all away but all in all it is all relative, yes the bounceback seems to be there but as is on all sites its just tough when its in big spots like you had, it seems stars lets you win for a while and then will crush you with a bad beat that makes you go broke.
I humbly submit that "the site" doesn't actually decide when a player will start to win and when he/she will start to lose as if "the site" is a benevolent/malicious/sentient being. It's luck. Numbers. Odds. Statistics. Even with purely random outcomes, you will see streaks. It happens. It doesn't mean that Poker Stars (a large public company) programmed their random number generator to play tricks on people or manipulate them.
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| Posted by: JJPHENOM at July 4, 2006, 6:33 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
i do love playing at stars, had money there about 2 weeks ago and blew all away but all in all it is all relative, yes the bounceback seems to be there but as is on all sites its just tough when its in big spots like you had, it seems stars lets you win for a while and then will crush you with a bad beat that makes you go broke.
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| Posted by: gordo30 at July 2, 2006, 8:46 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
just got stuck out in 10th/461 in a tournament on stars, it got to the stage that i predicted 3 river cards in a row that would hit no joke. As it happens all 3 where one from only two cards that could possibly lose me the hand. I don,t know why this has to happen on stars but it goes on all the time. I agree egon that i have folded hands on stars that i would maybe have moved all in against someone i,m sure is chasing the straight or flush.
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| Posted by: Egon Towst at July 2, 2006, 4:32 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
I don`t play Pokerstars so can`t comment directly, but there are subtle differences between one poker room and another in the nature of the random number generation. Not "fixed" exactly, but not totally random either.
The one that most stands out to me is Victor Chandler (part of the Tribeca network and therefore essentially the same as Doyles Room and some others). Here I am positive that flushes and straights are more common than on other sites. If the board shows a flush or straight possibility, one of the players will have it almost every time.
The answer to it is, having identified the site`s quirks, adjust your play accordingly. At VC, I routinely fold trips when there is a possible flush/straight, knowing that I am likely beat. I will also play more drawing hands, since they are more likely to hit.
I know another site where the deal is more "dull" than usual and lots of hands are won with Ace High because big hands are less common. Answer - I relax m... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: nateofdeath at July 1, 2006, 8:21 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
I just had to make one more comment on this subject.
i think it's important to remember that we all play a lot, thousands upon thousands of hands. and when you play that much, you're bound to see some crazy stuff. there aren't many things, and none that come to mind, that i haven't seen happen on the poker table. No matter how remote the odds, they still have to happen eventually. As i like to remind myself every time i take a bad beat; In order to be a 3:1 favorite, you have to lose 25% of the time. Rob mentioned odds of something like 95,000:1, well, there still has to be that one time when it happens. It sucks if it works out against you, but it still has to happen, otherwise there would be no odds, it would be a guarentee, 100%. It seems like many of us think that that whenever we have the statistical advantage, it means there's no way we can loose, but odds in our favor only mean we'll win more often then we'll loose in such a situation, not that we'll win everytime. They're relevant more ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: beardyian at July 1, 2006, 7:18 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by MrSticker
I sometimes play 2 tables at a few sites (incl. Stars) and I notice, more often than rarely, I get the same alued hand (different suits mostly) on both tables. Also, both flops could have 2 same cards, different suits.
I haven't noticed it so much on stars but the site where i often play on 2 tables (CDPoker) i have noticed this as well and it does happen quite a bit which can be ery distracting - lol
IanT
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| Posted by: gts3475 at July 1, 2006, 5:10 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
I have never played at poker stars but I do wonder sometimes if sites are rigged also. But I think I win just as much as I lose. Although I have had some hands that got beat by this or that and it makes you think... no way! Well I wish you the best of luck on your games in the future.
Have a Good Weekend & A Happy 4th!
-gts3475
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| Posted by: MrSticker at June 30, 2006, 9:39 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
I try to avoid the "R" word, but I believe in faulty randomness. I sometimes play 2 tables at a few sites (incl. Stars) and I notice, more often than rarely, I get the same alued hand (different suits mostly) on both tables. Also, both flops could have 2 same cards, different suits.
I especially think Stars is about 5 years obsolete in their software as a whole.
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| Posted by: combuboom at June 30, 2006, 9:15 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
Feel your pain rob, I really do. After my post about how my higher pocket pairs would always get beat by lower pairs that hit trips, it knocked me out of my NEXT 2 SIT N GOES. One of them was three-handed, pushed all-in with 88, called with 77 and a shiny 7 hit the flop. The next one wasn't actually against a pocket pair but it was sickening. I held QQ and the flop was T 7 2, end up all-in against a JT, blank on turn, T on river.
Something I noticed on one line... *** TURN *** [9d 7c 3c] 3♣
Uh, it says 3 of clubs twice. How'd that happen? RIGGED DECK
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| Posted by: nateofdeath at June 30, 2006, 9:02 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
well, i play at stars exclusivly, and have found it to be 'rigged' in my favor just as often as it is against me. That is to say, i think it evens out, and personally i've found most sites to be the same in this way, so ultimatly, since i'm a tournament player, there's no place i'd rather be then stars, but that's just me i suppose
-n
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| Posted by: robwhufc at June 30, 2006, 8:56 pm | | Topic: How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged? Forum: Card Chat |
I posted on another thread i'd lost 3 SnG's when I had 7 chances to win when all in (was between 68% and 92% favourite in the 7 - 2 of them over 90%).
This is from number 8 - i'd won the first match of a 4 player $10 H2H, this was for $40 (much needed after the last 3 games). I'd totally dominated until then - he hopelessly overbet when he hit a hand, and called pretty much everything;
PokerStars Game #5412997136: Tournament #27322011, $10.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Match Round II, Level I (20/40) - 2006/06/30 - 16:31:01 (ET)
Table '27322011 1' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: TangoCP (1980 in chips)
Seat 2: robwhufc (4020 in chips)
TangoCP: posts small blind 20
robwhufc: posts big blind 40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to robwhufc [Tc 8c]
TangoCP: calls 20
robwhufc: checks
*** FLOP *** [9d 7c 3c]
robwhufc: checks
TangoCP: bets 80
robwhufc: calls 80
*** TURN *** [9d 7c 3c] 2♣
robwhufc: checks
TangoCP: bets 920 | | Read Entire Entry |
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