| Posted by: ChuckTs at July 21, 2007, 8:41 pm | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by HoldemChamp
I have heard Howard Lederer Mention that 300x the BB for Limit is the min more than once. I think those who use the 10-20 suggestion which would translate into 100 -200 for limt are setting themselves up. What happens when you hit a really bad streak. If it happens for Professionals it will happen with others players even more. Having 20 times the buy in or 200x the BB in the case of limit ring games just can't withstand a long streak of bad cards. I rarely see a profession meantion less that 20x and most say 30x the buy in for a NL ring game. Jennifer Harmon mentions in an article that for a 10/20 FL game you should have 10,000 as a bank roll. That is 500x the BB. Now if 2 top pros mention numbers no lower than 30x for NL and 300x for FL and and as had a 50x for NL and 500x for FL, should you believe them or listen to the people who have less of a poker career and knowledge suggesting 10/20x and 100/200x being sufficient. Most pros I have read nev... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: HoldemChamp at July 21, 2007, 5:59 pm | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Sammyv1
Here is some Bankroll Charts From ChuckTs, or it might have been AlonIsper. I am drunk right Now so I hope this works!!!
I have heard Howard Lederer Mention that 300x the BB for Limit is the min more than once. I think those who use the 10-20 suggestion which would translate into 100 -200 for limt are setting themselves up. What happens when you hit a really bad streak. If it happens for Professionals it will happen with others players even more. Having 20 times the buy in or 200x the BB in the case of limit ring games just can't withstand a long streak of bad cards. I rarely see a profession meantion less that 20x and most say 30x the buy in for a NL ring game. Jennifer Harmon mentions in an article that for a 10/20 FL game you should have 10,000 as a bank roll. That is 500x the BB. Now if 2 top pros mention numbers no lower than 30x for NL and 300x for FL and and as had a 50x for NL and 500x for FL, should you believe them or listen to... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jack Daniels at July 20, 2007, 4:44 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Mojomax747
Well its all cleared up now and stormswa and i briefly spoke of it in private messaging.
But thats what these forums are all about right?
Trying to help each other out in the best way we can, giving and receiving advice and learning from it all.
I couldn't agree more.
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| Posted by: Mojomax747 at July 20, 2007, 4:18 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Well its all cleared up now and stormswa and i briefly spoke of it in private messaging.
But thats what these forums are all about right?
Trying to help each other out in the best way we can, giving and receiving advice and learning from it all.
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| Posted by: Jack Daniels at July 20, 2007, 4:10 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by stormswa
obviously JD I did not steer him in a dangerous bankroll direction, hell look at my title!!!!
You know, if you'd stop posting directly in front of me on these things it would seem a lot less like I'm constantly talking about you.
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| Posted by: stormswa at July 20, 2007, 4:06 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Jack Daniels
.
Edit: I was apparently typing up this reply while the posts above were taking place. Sorry for any duplication, etc.
obviously JD I did not steer him in a dangerous bankroll direction, hell look at my title!!!!
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| Posted by: Jack Daniels at July 20, 2007, 4:02 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
I guess the key take away here is that as a forum, we don't preach dangerous or risky BR mgmt. We promote secure BR mgmt standards/techniques that are meant to protect the player from going broke due to ariance.
So in terms of NLH, that security really means a minimum of 20 buy-ins (5% rule). All of the charts here above are based on the minimum amounts needed for BR protection and go up from there. Ob there is no rule anywhere that says you can't manage you BR anyway you want, but CardsChat is learning forum and we do get inexperienced players looking for help. When people come here looking for bankroll mgmt help (or make posts where they are ob playing above their heads), we really need to guide them to the safe way of protecting their bankrolls. It's like trading stocks, no one with any understanding or common sense would open a new online portfolio with no experience in any form of trading and start off trading futures/options. That would be extremely high risk.
Of course it is... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: stormswa at July 20, 2007, 3:55 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Mojomax747
The concept has always been ery clear to me right from the start.
Moving up and down at the correct time has never been a problem for me to grasp, i mean who wouldnt understand that.
As soon as it was explained to me it became ery clear.
The confusion i had was to do with 10-20 buy-ins or 20-sky is the limit buy-ins.
I did originally clearly ask if your advice was from a personal prospective or a general one.
You advised me in general terms according to your own post.
It is clear to me now that you were talking about your own personal way of managing your bank roll which is totally fine if that is what you are comfortable with though the stringent BRM users might frown upon it.
That is the confusion i am talking about because in all fairness, the advice you gave me was not a general rule of thumb BRM policy.
It was your personal BRM policy but you never once said to me that was the case.
You say it ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mojomax747 at July 20, 2007, 3:54 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
The concept has always been ery clear to me right from the start.
Moving up and down at the correct time has never been a problem for me to grasp, i mean who wouldnt understand that.
As soon as it was explained to me it became ery clear.
The confusion i had was to do with 10-20 buy-ins or 20-sky is the limit buy-ins.
I did originally clearly ask if your advice was from a personal prospective or a general one.
You advised me in general terms according to your own post.
It is clear to me now that you were talking about your own personal way of managing your bank roll which is totally fine if that is what you are comfortable with though the stringent BRM users might frown upon it.
That is the confusion i am talking about because in all fairness, the advice you gave me was not a general rule of thumb BRM policy.
It was your personal BRM policy but you never once said to me that was the case.
You say it now of course and that is fine by me but the point is, ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: stormswa at July 20, 2007, 3:20 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Mojomax747
I would think you can see the confusion i am experiencing when each post differs from the last.
Maybe i am not clear anymore, i think dorkus mentioned his strict discipline in BRM and maybe he might be able to clear this up for me.
from Basic Bankroll Management
Basic Bankroll Management by Fox on 12/7/2005 14:53
This article is provided by pokerfox.net. If you like what you read we have a lot more just like it inside!
With the number of questions on the forums here at pocketfives about bankroll management, I thought some basic information about bankroll management was needed. This is an adaptation of an article from my website at PokerFox.net - Home, and it is a good example of the kind of thing we do there.
It has occurred to me recently that many people have questions about bankroll management that aren't easily answered with just a simple number or a formula, so this article should give you some ide... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mojomax747 at July 20, 2007, 3:08 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by stormswa
Im the one that gave you the advice so where did it differ?
the chart suggests 20-50 buy ins per level which is fine, minimum is 20 buy ins per level.
the way I read it is exactly like I told you, that you can move up when you reach 20 buy ins of next level but you have to move back down when you drop below that 20, there is no max you can have at any level because if you are crushing a level there is no reason to move up.
I would think you can see the confusion i am experiencing when each post differs from the last.
Maybe i am not clear anymore, i think dorkus mentioned his strict discipline in BRM and maybe he might be able to clear this up for me.
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| Posted by: stormswa at July 20, 2007, 3:01 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Mojomax747
Here
it is between 10-20 buy ins so if you just lose 1 single buy in I think you can continue to play your $50 nl game. If you start losing more and drop close to the next buy in max which would be $500 then you need to drop down. So say you played and had 1k and dropped it to $600 - $700 now you should evaluate and see if you think you are being outplayed or have just gotten unlucky. but if you drop that down to $500 you should drop down till you rebuild it to 1k again and try again....rinse...repeat.
the chart is on the max side with it being 20-50, this is to insure you never go broke or makes it ery difficult to go broke if you are a decent player.
BUT
there is nothing wrong with playing with 10 buy-ins but it is much more dangerous then playing with 20 obviously. If it is a brand new level for you then I would strongly recommend the 20 buy ins. Like take me for instance, I have played $100 NL a lot online a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mojomax747 at July 20, 2007, 2:55 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
And here.
Originally Posted by Mojomax747
Yes that would make a lot of sense and would normally have been enough for me to now understand the concept. But now i am more confused then ever, this is the first time i have read the rule of thumb to be between 10-20 buy-ins. I have read a lot on this forum about br management and 10-20 concept has never been mentioned in anything i have read before. Are you talking about your br management or the general rule of thumb br management?
You said.
not really sure what you are asking so will just give general explanation and I will hope that it is good if not ask more specifics.
Bankroll management is good because it is a way to manage your bankroll so It is ery ery unlikely you will go broke. So lets say you have a starting bankroll of $500.
now with $500 you can sit at $25 nl seeing as you have 20 buy ins total, at $200 you would have 20 buy ins for a $10 nl game so right now you can comfortably sit at $25 NL rig... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mojomax747 at July 20, 2007, 2:53 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Here
it is between 10-20 buy ins so if you just lose 1 single buy in I think you can continue to play your $50 nl game. If you start losing more and drop close to the next buy in max which would be $500 then you need to drop down. So say you played and had 1k and dropped it to $600 - $700 now you should evaluate and see if you think you are being outplayed or have just gotten unlucky. but if you drop that down to $500 you should drop down till you rebuild it to 1k again and try again....rinse...repeat.
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| Posted by: stormswa at July 20, 2007, 2:42 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Mojomax747
Well i think something should be done somewhere and a bit more clarity would be a bonus.
My reasons for saying this is because the advice i was given several weeks ago when i was asking about correct bank roll management and the general rule of thumb that should be used certainly didnt correspond with these charts.
More precisely the NL ring games, and this was after i specifically asked the adviser if the advice given was from personal experience or general rule of thumb management.
Now that i look at this chart and if i am to believe it is accurate, correct, and so on, it means i have been using incorrect BRM for the last 4-5 weeks.
Im the one that gave you the advice so where did it differ?
the chart suggests 20-50 buy ins per level which is fine, minimum is 20 buy ins per level.
the way I read it is exactly like I told you, that you can move up when you reach 20 buy ins of next level but you have to move back d... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mojomax747 at July 20, 2007, 2:08 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by stormswa
can we sticky this post, not the thread just the post. This question gets asked on a daily basis and this chart is ery ery ery good and simple to read. Maybe copy it and paste it in new thread titled Bankroll Managment guidlines. Dont have to put it in this section maybe the strategy section.
Well i think something should be done somewhere and a bit more clarity would be a bonus.
My reasons for saying this is because the advice i was given several weeks ago when i was asking about correct bank roll management and the general rule of thumb that should be used certainly didnt correspond with these charts.
More precisely the NL ring games, and this was after i specifically asked the adviser if the advice given was from personal experience or general rule of thumb management.
Now that i look at this chart and if i am to believe it is accurate, correct, and so on, it means i have been using incorrect BRM for the last 4-5 weeks.
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| Posted by: stormswa at July 20, 2007, 1:40 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Sammyv1
Here is some Bankroll Charts From ChuckTs, or it might have been AlonIsper. I am drunk right Now so I hope this works!!!
can we sticky this post, not the thread just the post. This question gets asked on a daily basis and this chart is ery ery ery good and simple to read. Maybe copy it and paste it in new thread titled Bankroll Managment guidlines. Dont have to put it in this section maybe the strategy section.
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| Posted by: chefantwon at July 20, 2007, 1:35 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
That's just peachy Sammy, no wonder I can't get there from here. Since I'm commited to NOT send a dime to any poker site as of yet.
At least PS has the $0.10 tourneys and I CAN build up with my crappy stack of a whopping $1.47.
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| Posted by: JimboJim at July 19, 2007, 4:19 pm | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
The problem with switching limits is that alsmost every limit the average play is different. I'll use the 1 table SnG's on Stars as an example.
$1...pretty loose/passive
$5...even mix
$10...Very tight
$20...a lot looser than $10 but there's more skill
You need to change your play some for each limit and you need to expect a little losing streak to start while you tune your game to that limit.
Ring Games are the same...I've played all the way from the penny tables to $50 buy-in. The play is different at each stake so you need to expect a loss while adjusting.
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| Posted by: vivaitalia1 at July 19, 2007, 10:33 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
i dont agree with the 20-50 buy ins but again ive only been playing 1 month full time.. I think 3-4 buyins per multi table is sufficient.. you CANT go down lower if you play tight agressive and not push with TPTK.. what you will lose your money on is with AA s set, mid set s top set and KK s AA.. and the odds of those burning 5 buyins consecutively are ery low..
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| Posted by: KMC1828 at July 19, 2007, 10:12 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
i think the worst part, for me at least, is that i want to get into some other games like stud and omaha, but i dont have the bankroll to do it without worrying so much.
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| Posted by: Afterlife000 at July 19, 2007, 7:05 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Same thing happens with me! I will deposit 50 dollars on full tilt, get it up to about 200, then move to higher stakes and start dropping down. Its so frustrating, and im not doing anything wrong, just bad luck.
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| Posted by: KMC1828 at July 19, 2007, 5:05 am | | Topic: Bankroll question/problem, such... Forum: Card Chat |
Me and a couple of my friends have been piddling around online poker for the ladder part of 4 years now. We've always had the starting (or restarting nowadays lol) bankroll of about 50 bucks each time we want to play. (not collectively, individually).
Usually we will get up a really good amount in a pretty short amount of time (up to about 200 in like 2 weeks), and about 1/2 of us have no clue about bankroll management and play like the .25/.50 NLHE table and do ery well. Then of course you know how it goes, they go on a cold streak and lose a damn good amount of it and drop down to the really low stakes.
This is where the problem lies..they cant seem to win in the low stakes. This boggles my mind. I've also been having the same problem trying out a strict style of bankroll management. I was playing the 5.50 SnG's on Full Tilt Poker, and when i started reading about how strict you should have your bankroll management, i started playing the 2.25 SnG's and i cant seem to win at all. Jus... | | Read Entire Entry |
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