| Posted by: maltz at September 25, 2007, 9:36 pm | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
Indeed, we are cutting our bad beat chance down significantly, by not pushing in when we are not sure we are ahead. When we catch our lucky card, there usually isn't a decisive big bet / showdown yet.
By playing more aggressive we are widening our earning ariance, thus welcoming more luck factor in the short run. Is that a good thing for a casual player, who really loves winning but don't care about earning profit?
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| Posted by: Seneku at September 25, 2007, 2:53 pm | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
I've thought about this, since I felt like being the ictum of the same thing, but when I payed more attention to the hand histories I've noticed that I also deliver a lot of bad beats, but just not when all the money was already in the middle. If you're playing against poor players, they won't mind getting all their money in with the worst of it, while you probably will mind and not reraise allin but just call when you're in doubt of your hand.
Say for instance that you're holding AJ on a A34 board with a preflop raise and the raiser leads into you. Some of the bad micro limit players you could be up against would reraise a lot here, thinking: OMG, I have a pair of aces, while you're worring about your kicker. Now if the J hits on the turn, you did suck out, but it feels less like a suckout, because all the money wasn't in the middle already.
I've noticed that I also get lucky ery often, it just doesn't feel that way because it was before all the money went in. Hopefully you can make s... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: maltz at September 25, 2007, 2:22 pm | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
Well calling more is not the only way to increase bad beats. For example, I can start to play medium hands (such as draws, top pair low kicker) ery aggressively, if I detect opponent's weakness. Sometimes my read might screw up and the opponent calls with a decent hand - but I might outdraw him by the end.
I admit that up to this point I NEVER play draws aggressively because I know weak players are still calling anyways, and I will become an underdog! Maybe after I move up limit level I will start doing that. I did receive a lot of bad beats from people who played draw aggressively, though.
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| Posted by: bluffmaster at September 24, 2007, 11:19 pm | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by maltz
one receives defeat while he makes the correct decision and the opponent makes a mistake, resulting in a clear biased odds (usually above 3:1) at the point of showdown.
If you are under this standard ratio (say, standard is 1:5 but you are 1:1), you are not folding enough. If you are above this standard ratio (say, 1:10 like me), you are not calling enough. This ratio also depends on opponents. Against weaker players (who call ery often)
ok so i agree to your definition of a bad beat(slightly), when you make the right desicion given the information you have in front of you, but you lose the pot to a statistical underdog(s).
your ratio thing still misses the point a little.
its not about having 1bad beat given:1bad beat recieved. you should never aim to bad beat some one(full stop) to keep up with a quota.
you mentioned weak players call ery often.
now ok they are calling every hand, which means they ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: maltz at September 24, 2007, 9:58 pm | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
Thanks. I guess that I should be proud to say that I have received a few more bad beats since the last post, but have not given any yet.
I wonder whether there is an "ideal" ratio of bad beats Received s. Delivered. Some people define bad beats as big cards lost to even bigger cards, but that's too wishful to me. My definition of bad beat is narrower - that one receives defeat while he makes the correct decision and the opponent makes a mistake, resulting in a clear biased odds (usually above 3:1) at the point of showdown.
If you are under this standard ratio (say, standard is 1:5 but you are 1:1), you are not folding enough. If you are above this standard ratio (say, 1:10 like me), you are not calling enough. This ratio also depends on opponents. Against weaker players (who call ery often) I think the standard ratio should be adjusted down (as we tend to receive a lot more bad beats).
Now if I know where to find a poker hand result database, we should be able to wri... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: bluffmaster at September 20, 2007, 4:25 pm | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomhammer
It is like the wise Mr. Sklansky (and basically what you yourself) says.
"If you are an excellent player, people are going to draw out on you a lot more than your're going to draw out on them because they're simply going to have the worst hand against you a lot more times than you have the worst hand against them."
....nice summary
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| Posted by: Doomhammer at September 20, 2007, 9:33 am | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
It is like the wise Mr. Sklansky (and basically what you yourself) says.
"If you are an excellent player, people are going to draw out on you a lot more than your're going to draw out on them because they're simply going to have the worst hand against you a lot more times than you have the worst hand against them."
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| Posted by: bluffmaster at September 20, 2007, 12:25 am | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by maltz
Yes I am still folding when I know I can't win.
Just had another runner runner straight to split my pot.
The guy called all in with K4 on 10 9 8 (I had 10 10), because he felt lucky, lol.
He did get lucky in this case (turn river came 76)
ouch, and ouch, i feel your pain, i have made posts similar to this....."in the bad beat section!"
but that aside, i believe that your point about "am I not seeing enough river as an underdog?" is reliant on your odds of getting lucky, and from finding out the hard way, a good poker player, does not rely on luck, in fact, one poster on my thread pointed out that, this "assumtion" alone, questions your integrity as a "good" poker player,
as for the bad beats, take them as they come, they will and have made you a better poker player, there is ALWAYS something you could of done to win/ and by win, that can mean folding.
folding is winn... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: maltz at September 19, 2007, 10:02 pm | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
Yes I am still folding when I know I can't win.
Just had another runner runner straight to split my pot.
The guy called all in with K4 on 10 9 8 (I had 10 10), because he felt lucky, lol.
He did get lucky in this case (turn river came 76)
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| Posted by: SeanyJ at September 19, 2007, 9:28 pm | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
It sounds to me that you are just selectively remembering all the times that you get sucked out on. The bad beats always stay in your head longer than when you suck out on people. But if you really are getting sucked out on all the time you should just keep playing like you are playing and thing will even out in the long run.
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| Posted by: maltz at September 19, 2007, 8:54 pm | | Topic: The last time I bad beat anyone... Forum: Card Chat |
Maybe 2 weeks ago. I called an extremely short stack all in with 29o pre-flop (I had good pot odds), and hit my 9 on the river.
That's it. Since then I am always the ictim of every 3:2 coin flip to 25:1 favorite. In fact from my recent poker memory, the bad beats I give s. the bad beats I suffer are about 1:10. For every bad beat I give people, I have to swallow it 10 times more. And I don't even slow play, maybe once in 30 hands when I feel absolutely safe. Now I don't have emotion about 2-4 outers on river. I only respond to runner runner straight and flush.
Does this happen to you as well?
Once I read an article saying that if you are always unlucky, you are playing well because you fold when you know you are beaten. But am I folding too much? Am I not seeing enough river as an underdog? For example, if I am a 20% underdog and the raise isn't big, should I just call anyways and try to deliver a bad beat, which would give me a lot more money back? I haven't read any arti... | | Read Entire Entry |
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