| Posted by: zachvac at December 10, 2007, 12:38 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Crummy
7. You can't switch back and forth between being a professional and an amateur every year. Once you become a professional, you've made a career decision. You can switch, but expect trouble (audits) if you switch back.
Why would you ever declare you're a pro gambler then? Why not just be unemployed and you're an amateur gambler?
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| Posted by: KyleJRM at December 10, 2007, 12:32 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by didimaketherightplay
I'd like to see the law that states they have a right to tax your wages.
U.S. Code Section 26
http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title26/title26.html
Glad I could grant your request
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| Posted by: KyleJRM at December 10, 2007, 12:30 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
The old "no law says you have to pay an income tax" thing is that goobs on the internet who hate the government or are opposed to taxes like to repeat over and over again like some sort of mantra.
This is patently not true. They are wrong. They have all kinds of ridiculous arguments as to why it is not true, but every one of those arguments has been debunked and rejected in court numerous times.
For all the debunking and information you need from a serious law expert (rather than just a dabbler like me), follow this link:
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsieg.../IncomeTax.htm
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| Posted by: Crummy at December 10, 2007, 12:16 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by CAPT. ZIGZAG
Let me just say this about that.
THERE IS NO LAW ANYWHERE WHICH STATES THAT YOU MUST PAY INCOME TAX ON YOUR LABOR TO ANY ENTITY. PERIOD.
Two years ago 6 folks were found not guilty. Last year 38 found the same refuge within the courts. And this year we've got 227. Found NOT GUILTY by juries of their peers.
Be a patsy. I don't care. I think the gubermint calls them ATM's.
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So your saying that any of my professional services labor I provide to clients I don't have to pay on??? Damn the IRS owes me $$$$$$$$$$$$.
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| Posted by: didimaketherightplay at December 9, 2007, 5:57 pm | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by skoldpadda
Oh really? I'd like to see a link for that law.
I'd like to see the law that states they have a right to tax your wages.
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| Posted by: CAPT. ZIGZAG at December 9, 2007, 5:30 pm | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Let me just say this about that.
THERE IS NO LAW ANYWHERE WHICH STATES THAT YOU MUST PAY INCOME TAX ON YOUR LABOR TO ANY ENTITY. PERIOD.
Two years ago 6 folks were found not guilty. Last year 38 found the same refuge within the courts. And this year we've got 227. Found NOT GUILTY by juries of their peers.
Be a patsy. I don't care. I think the gubermint calls them ATM's.
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| Posted by: flint at December 9, 2007, 5:29 pm | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Tygran
It's my understanding the the UK doesn't tax gambling income at all. So if that's where you are lucky you!
Is atleast half true, being part of the EU means that the wins on gambling sites inside the European Economic Area are tax free.
The problem is however when playing on sites outside this area, such activity is atleast in Finland considered to be taxed under income tax, unless there is a treaty with the said country forefiting the need to pay tax.
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| Posted by: nightmoves44 at December 9, 2007, 5:11 pm | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Techinlly I dont think its illegal to play online poker,but it is illegal for isa/mastercard and any financial institution to do business with an online poker site.It actually states in the law that individual players cannot be charged for a crime.......if i am wrong..show me proof.but i read the law when it came out and thats how i interpreted it.PS ,If you play in person,you arent required to report it until march 08.I just read this last week somewhere..i can find it later tho.
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| Posted by: Tygran at December 9, 2007, 4:57 pm | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Boltneck
Anyone out there know the situation with regards to UK taxation rules / law?
It's my understanding the the UK doesn't tax gambling income at all. So if that's where you are lucky you!
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| Posted by: Tygran at December 9, 2007, 4:56 pm | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Nice post crummy, that's what I was looking for more or less.
When I said it defied common sense earlier, I did not mean having to pay taxes on gambling income defied common sense. If you are going to have income taxes (which I oppose, but that's a whole other can of worms) then I fully expect to have to pay taxes on gambling winnings.
What makes absolutely no sense to me is how you have to report it, the records you are supposed to keep, how it can screw you over and how little/unclear all this is. I'd wager that an extremely large percent of recreational players who actually do report poker winnings don't do it correctly. Taxes shouldn't be anywhere near this complicated to figure out, hence my comment earlier.
I think the biggest reason though might be over the definition of a "session". I fail to see how online and B&M can realistically be treated the same. Especially with multi tabling being much more common online when it really isn't ery practical/possibl... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Crummy at December 9, 2007, 7:22 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Check this out, I found this on pokernews from googling. Number 8 is the kicker:
10. The Tax Court recently made a ery positive ruling for all gamblers. In Castagnetta . Commissioner (T.C. Summary 2006-24), the Court held that non-professional gamblers can, in some instances, deduct other expenses incurred while gambling. These expenses include ATM fees, office supplies, and admission fees.
The Court also held that a professional gambler does not have to be solely engaged in gambling. That has been the position of the IRS in arious appeals cases. Instead, the Tax Court said that gambling must be, "the intended livelihood source...[and pursued] for income or profit."
Unfortunately, this is a Summary Opinion and is not precedential. However, it does indicate how the Tax Court would likely rule in similar cases.
9. The IRS doesn't believe there's such a thing as a professional gambler. It's part of their mindset. Even though the US Supreme Court held that yo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: BigWaveDaveO at December 9, 2007, 6:52 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
I'll give you some free advice. While there is some good advice here I would get my advice from a tax accountant.
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| Posted by: aliengenius at December 9, 2007, 6:46 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Two books you want to buy your CPA for x-mas
1. How to Turn Your Poker Playing into A Business: Knowing What to Deduct to Improve your Odds With the IRS
2.Tax Help for Gamblers
Send them as early gifts, so your professional will be ready when you declare yourself as officially a poker pro!
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| Posted by: Crummy at December 9, 2007, 4:00 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
What defies any trace of common sense? Having to pay taxes?? Yeah it sucks, but that is America for you!
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| Posted by: Tygran at December 9, 2007, 3:48 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
I had never really seriously thought about this issue before..did a good bit of reading around arious places tonight online. It's downright depressing and completely defies any trace of common sense it seems.
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| Posted by: Crummy at December 9, 2007, 1:35 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Tygran
I'm starting this thread more out of curiosity than anything.. does anyone have a good reference or can explain how online poker income is treated by the IRS.
Specific questions include but are not limited to:
Is there a financial "threshold" you have to cross before it matters?
Is it considered "income" before you withdraw it from a site and thus taxable at that time?
Do they consider only your net income or treat it as gross income minus deductions? (the latter would be f'd up but not surprise me)
etc..
A couple of things.....First off....You do NOT have to pay taxes on any money that is in your poker accounts that you have NOT withdrawn. You could have 100 Million dollars in your Poker Stars account, none of it is taxable, until you withdrawl it.
Secondly you have to pay taxes on all of your winnings, and you can also deduct all of your losses.
Here is an example:
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| Posted by: Tygran at December 9, 2007, 1:35 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by quads
Yes you're technically right. Not sure how you would explain having profits though.
Somehow I doubt a trivial little technicality like "you aren't supposed to be able to transfer poker winnings into the US" is really going to matter to the IRS when in their mind you owe them money.
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| Posted by: quads at December 9, 2007, 1:05 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by skoldpadda
Oh really? I'd like to see a link for that law.
Yes you're technically right. Not sure how you would explain having profits though.
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| Posted by: zachvac at December 9, 2007, 12:42 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Live poker I know it's just net profit, I'm sure online poker works the same way. I'll have to look into that when I start making thousands of dollars
For now I don't think I need to worry about paying taxes on a couple hundred bucks per year.
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| Posted by: skoldpadda at December 9, 2007, 12:32 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by quads
First of all, you're not suppose to have online poker income if you reside in the U.S.
.
Oh really? I'd like to see a link for that law.
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| Posted by: quads at December 9, 2007, 12:02 am | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
First of all, you're not suppose to have online poker income if you reside in the U.S.
As far as treating gambling winnings when signing a W2 form, I always claimed losses over the winnings. At least I'm pretty sure that's how that works. My accountant does all my returns. I actually haven't personally filed a tax return in 30 years. I usually have to pay thousands every year.
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| Posted by: Tygran at December 8, 2007, 11:34 pm | | Topic: IRS and Poker Income Forum: Card Chat |
I'm starting this thread more out of curiosity than anything.. does anyone have a good reference or can explain how online poker income is treated by the IRS.
Specific questions include but are not limited to:
Is there a financial "threshold" you have to cross before it matters?
Is it considered "income" before you withdraw it from a site and thus taxable at that time?
Do they consider only your net income or treat it as gross income minus deductions? (the latter would be f'd up but not surprise me)
etc..
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