| Posted by: switch0723 at February 1, 2008, 8:07 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
Usually with a flop full of undercards, an overcard will hit by river, or you will only get action from an overpair beating yours
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| Posted by: Bentheman87 at February 1, 2008, 5:33 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
With those medium pairs I don't think you even need implied odds to call, since it's easy for a bunch of undercards to come on the flop or only one overcard. Postflop with 22 33 or 44 it's almost always gonna come all overcards so you can't really continue in the hand unless you flop a set, but with the medium pairs like 99 you can usually still continue in the hand even if you don't flop a set.
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| Posted by: switch0723 at February 1, 2008, 5:13 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
^^^^ did you call with the correct implied odds though?
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| Posted by: CfPoker at February 1, 2008, 3:50 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
I just had a nice set. Someone raised pf, I called with 99 and the flop comes down A9A. All the money went in and he shown AK, he didn't hit and a nice profit for me
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| Posted by: aliengenius at February 1, 2008, 1:42 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Bentheman87
So it makes sense we can call with odds a little worse than 8-1 doesn't it?
Quote: Originally Posted by WVHillbilly
You need implied odds of 12:1. You certainly can't call with implied odds of less the 8:1. You're guaranteed to lose $$ by trying to flop a set without at least those odds.
Quote: Originally Posted by Chris_TC
You're confusing something there. The 12:1 rule is not about the pot odds, it's about the implied odds.
If somebody raises to $5 at 100NL, then his stack should be at least $60 big (i.e. 12:1 implied odds) for you to call with a small pair. Note how your pot odds in this example are only 1.3:1 (blinds = $1.50 + $5 raise = $6.50 / $5 = 1.3)
^^these guys covered it-- 8:1/12:1 IS talking about the implied odds, not the current pot odds. As to winning without flopping a set-- that would be nice, but I doubt your opponent is going to accommodate by checking the ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Chris_TC at January 31, 2008, 8:18 am | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Bentheman87
So it makes sense we can call with odds a little worse than 8-1 doesn't it?
You're confusing something there. The 12:1 rule is not about the pot odds, it's about the implied odds.
If somebody raises to $5 at 100NL, then his stack should be at least $60 big (i.e. 12:1 implied odds) for you to call with a small pair. Note how your pot odds in this example are only 1.3:1 (blinds = $1.50 + $5 raise = $6.50 / $5 = 1.3)
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| Posted by: WVHillbilly at January 31, 2008, 4:09 am | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
You need implied odds of 12:1. You certainly can't call with implied odds of less the 8:1. You're guaranteed to lose $$ by trying to flop a set without at least those odds.
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| Posted by: Bentheman87 at January 31, 2008, 3:56 am | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
I read a bit through that thread you posted alien, I see what they are saying kinda. Changing the odds you need to call preflop because of the possibility of being reraised preflop, flopping a set and still losing, and not getting paid off when you do get a set. But 8-1 odds against flopping a set don't take implied odds into account so it would make sense to call with worse odds than 8-1. So the possibility of being reraised preflop or flopping trips and still losing means we have to be getting better than 8-1, but implied odds means you can call with odds worse than 8-1 and the possibility of winning the pot without flopping trips (they could have two high cards where we're actually a small favorite preflop) means we can be getting worse odds than 8-1. So it makes sense we can call with odds a little worse than 8-1 doesn't it?
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| Posted by: Bentheman87 at January 31, 2008, 2:48 am | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
"12:1 is what I am using now as a baseline. I'll go 10:1 if I KNOW they will stack off."
Wait, why 12:1 I thought the odds of flopping a set were like 8:1 or 9:1. I think if you're getting even 5:1 or 6:1 it's a good idea to call because of the great implied odds. If you flop a small set on a board that has a K or Q or Ace it's ery unlikely the flop doesn't hit someone else hard.
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| Posted by: Chris_TC at January 29, 2008, 6:18 am | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by aliengenius
12:1 is what I am using now as a baseline. I'll go 10:1 if I KNOW they will stack off.
Be careful with that. I've had several situations now where I was soo sure they'd stack off but didn't.
When you get 3-bet by a tight player, call and flop a set it should mean you'll win a stack. But the last two times this happened to me, my opponent just check-folded (!) the flop.
Maybe I was up against AK both times, but the fact that they didn't even c-bet was pretty ridiculous.
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| Posted by: K_Kahne_Fan at January 29, 2008, 12:20 am | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
What does a set look like again? It's been so long since I've seen one... in my hand.
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| Posted by: aliengenius at January 28, 2008, 9:59 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
Here is a good prior thread.
12:1 is what I am using now as a baseline. I'll go 10:1 if I KNOW they will stack off.
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| Posted by: NoWuckingFurries at January 28, 2008, 9:04 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
Sounds much more exciting than data mining, anyway
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| Posted by: WVHillbilly at January 28, 2008, 8:56 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
Here you go Set Mining
He explains the concept well but I disagree with his numbers based on other reading. I'll call the preflop raiser if I can expect to get 12 times the amount I call preflop when I hit.
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| Posted by: switch0723 at January 28, 2008, 8:49 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
Could someone please link me to the thread/article about set mining please.
Thanks.
P.s. mods, once i reply to the link, this thread can be deleted
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| Posted by: ChuckTs at January 10, 2008, 4:35 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
~%10 of effective stacks is fine.
fwiw I'm almost always seeing flops with any pair from any position, and usually calling a raise to do so. Occasionally I'll even call a 3-bet if it's small enough and/or if there are enough people in the pot.
Something to think about is how obvious it becomes when you flop a set to your more observant opponents. When you limp-call or limp-cold call two bets, then start putting in tons of action on the flop, your opponents will sometimes be able to get away from their hands, so you have to do some balancing plays.
Something I do is I'll often donk hands like 99 into T72 type boards because not only will you frequently have the best hand and take the pot down right there, but it balances your play really nicely when you bet-shove or bet-call then ch-r all in on the turn with sets.
Anyways the point I'm trying to get across is that you shouldn't be calling the particularly big raises or 3-bets if you don't balance your play well eno... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: aliengenius at December 23, 2007, 3:12 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
Here is a thread on small pocket pairs and the odds you need to set mine (12:1, stack:raise ratio).
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| Posted by: Chevren at December 23, 2007, 12:41 pm | | Topic: Set Mining Forum: Card Chat |
What sort of a raise do you want to see to start considering set mining? I would have to see at least some sort of a reraise I think recently??
Alot of the time recently I call a 3-5bb raise with 22-88 trying to "set mine" but when I miss I fold and when I raise more often then I'm stacking someone off I see them fold to a raise or a reraise.
While I see so many articles about how much you should call a illian I rarely see articles showing what sort of situations you should be calling that specified amount.
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