| Posted by: mike_m235 at April 16, 2007, 6:54 am | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | SlapDash wrote: OK, I've done some fanning the flames in this thread - guilty as charged. But what I'd really like now is all wannabe-gnomers to stop PM-bombing me as soon as possible, preferrably yesterday. The next one to send me his MSN will receive so much gay porn it'll crack his mail box like an unspat sphincter.
There was never a Gnoming Bible in this thread, just a few pointers on how to get around Pay-Pro sites. I'm not a massive knowledge bank on gnoming. I just thougt it would be interesting to get a little discussion going on the topic.
I'm not gonna make you rich, you're gonna have to sort that out yourselves.
Now you're going to get PM bombed by all the gay porn junkies. You brought it on yourself
_________________
There are many different religions in this world, but if you look at them carefully, you'll see that they all have one thing in common: They were invented by a giant, superintelligent slug named Dennis. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: SlapDash at April 16, 2007, 4:46 am | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | OK, I've done some fanning the flames in this thread - guilty as charged. But what I'd really like now is all wannabe-gnomers to stop PM-bombing me as soon as possible, preferrably yesterday. The next one to send me his MSN will receive so much gay porn it'll crack his mail box like an unspat sphincter.
There was never a Gnoming Bible in this thread, just a few pointers on how to get around Pay-Pro sites. I'm not a massive knowledge bank on gnoming. I just thougt it would be interesting to get a little discussion going on the topic.
I'm not gonna make you rich, you're gonna have to sort that out yourselves.
_________________
Whory-whores, come out to play-ay! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Pinos at April 13, 2007, 8:03 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | YinYangPoker wrote: How do I unsubscribe from this retarded thread? This thread hasnt been about gnoming for about a week now and I get emails every time someone posts another inane opinion.
Cheers
Here's another email for you sir | | Static Link |
| Posted by: YinYangPoker at April 13, 2007, 5:44 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | How do I unsubscribe from this retarded thread? This thread hasnt been about gnoming for about a week now and I get emails every time someone posts another inane opinion.
Cheers | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Pinos at April 13, 2007, 2:59 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | As far as i would is:
ME: Wanna play at party poker?
Firend: What's poker?
ME: So... no, well... tomorrow we'll play poker at your place, i play and we drink the beers i will bring
Friend: mhh! beer... | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mike_m235 at April 12, 2007, 9:45 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | daraider wrote: mike_m235 wrote: daraider wrote: For me that shouldn't allowed either.
One of the reasons sites don't allow you to change names is because that is you and other players need to know it is always the same player playing that nickname.
It is part of reason zeejustin multi-accounted, so people wouldn't know who he was.
I wonder how people who were caught doing all this stuff would feel if the poker site caught them and froze their money and didn't give it back.
zeejustin played multiple accounts in the same game...that is about 1000 times worse than playing multiple accounts on the same site, but not in the same game.
yes it is, but the reason he created them in the first place was so he could hide who he was in the high limit sit and gos. So he gained an unfair advantage by doing that as well
It's debatable whether that's an unfair advantage or not. It's certainly a small advantage...but whether it's un... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: daraider at April 12, 2007, 8:17 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | mike_m235 wrote: daraider wrote: For me that shouldn't allowed either.
One of the reasons sites don't allow you to change names is because that is you and other players need to know it is always the same player playing that nickname.
It is part of reason zeejustin multi-accounted, so people wouldn't know who he was.
I wonder how people who were caught doing all this stuff would feel if the poker site caught them and froze their money and didn't give it back.
zeejustin played multiple accounts in the same game...that is about 1000 times worse than playing multiple accounts on the same site, but not in the same game.
yes it is, but the reason he created them in the first place was so he could hide who he was in the high limit sit and gos. So he gained an unfair advantage by doing that as well | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mike_m235 at April 12, 2007, 4:06 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | daraider wrote: For me that shouldn't allowed either.
One of the reasons sites don't allow you to change names is because that is you and other players need to know it is always the same player playing that nickname.
It is part of reason zeejustin multi-accounted, so people wouldn't know who he was.
I wonder how people who were caught doing all this stuff would feel if the poker site caught them and froze their money and didn't give it back.
zeejustin played multiple accounts in the same game...that is about 1000 times worse than playing multiple accounts on the same site, but not in the same game.
_________________
There are many different religions in this world, but if you look at them carefully, you'll see that they all have one thing in common: They were invented by a giant, superintelligent slug named Dennis. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: daraider at April 12, 2007, 3:25 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | For me that shouldn't allowed either.
One of the reasons sites don't allow you to change names is because that is you and other players need to know it is always the same player playing that nickname.
It is part of reason zeejustin multi-accounted, so people wouldn't know who he was.
I wonder how people who were caught doing all this stuff would feel if the poker site caught them and froze their money and didn't give it back. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mike_m235 at April 12, 2007, 2:55 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | okay, as soon as you live with that gray area, you are one step closer to the initial account holder not actually losing his stake...he just opens the account, but now decides not to play it. And so you play it.
Still gray, but getting a little blacker by the moment. So where is the line?
_________________
There are many different religions in this world, but if you look at them carefully, you'll see that they all have one thing in common: They were invented by a giant, superintelligent slug named Dennis. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: krummpoker at April 11, 2007, 8:21 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | Pinos wrote: mike_m235 wrote: If you really want to justify it, go this way. I have an account. Someone I know legitimately opens their own account, planning to use it. That person loses their initial buy in before clearing the bonus, realizes they are a losing player, and gives the game up. The bonus is still there. I transfer money into their account, play out the bonus, and split a portion of it with that person.
Welcome to the gray area.
I can live with that gray area
agreed | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Pinos at April 11, 2007, 6:19 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | mike_m235 wrote: If you really want to justify it, go this way. I have an account. Someone I know legitimately opens their own account, planning to use it. That person loses their initial buy in before clearing the bonus, realizes they are a losing player, and gives the game up. The bonus is still there. I transfer money into their account, play out the bonus, and split a portion of it with that person.
Welcome to the gray area.
I can live with that gray area | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mike_m235 at April 11, 2007, 5:07 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | If you really want to justify it, go this way. I have an account. Someone I know legitimately opens their own account, planning to use it. That person loses their initial buy in before clearing the bonus, realizes they are a losing player, and gives the game up. The bonus is still there. I transfer money into their account, play out the bonus, and split a portion of it with that person.
Welcome to the gray area.
_________________
There are many different religions in this world, but if you look at them carefully, you'll see that they all have one thing in common: They were invented by a giant, superintelligent slug named Dennis. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: GoldBoar at April 11, 2007, 5:06 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | mike_m235 wrote: Let he who has never gnomed throw the first stone.
Here it comes...
krummpoker wrote: ... if you wanted to say its fraud thats fine but even then I think you could defend your actions to prove that it is not... tough to do yes, but possible at least i think so.
My dictionary applet gives this for Fraud:
2. (Law) An intentional perversion of truth for the purpose of obtaining some valuable thing or promise from another.
The poker sites' T&Cs usually say something along the lines of one account per person/family/household. PartyPoker specifically states,
"You are prohibited from holding more than one (1) Account."
If you are representing yourself as a different person, you are committing fraud. You're right though, that a slick lawyer at a jury trial might get you off. Then again, Not Guilty doesn't mean the same thing as Innocent.
All the best.
_________________
"S... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: krummpoker at April 11, 2007, 5:02 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | daraider wrote: if you accidently leave a $20 dollar bill near and open window and kid sees it and grabs it and takes off with it. Is that okay?
You won't miss and can afford it. Nobody will ever know who took it. Well hey it must be okay then!
This is not the same as my analogy, even though i admit mine has problems as well.
Your analogy is openly stealing where I don't think making 2 accounts is actually stealing, if you wanted to say its fraud thats fine but even then I think you could defend your actions to prove that it is not... tough to do yes, but possible at least i think so. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mike_m235 at April 11, 2007, 3:43 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | Let he who has never gnomed throw the first stone.
_________________
There are many different religions in this world, but if you look at them carefully, you'll see that they all have one thing in common: They were invented by a giant, superintelligent slug named Dennis. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: daraider at April 11, 2007, 3:15 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | if you accidently leave a $20 dollar bill near and open window and kid sees it and grabs it and takes off with it. Is that okay?
You won't miss and can afford it. Nobody will ever know who took it. Well hey it must be okay then! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: krummpoker at April 11, 2007, 7:02 am | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | AlanN wrote: krummpoker wrote: I kinda agree with slapdashes views.. but I'm not really sure I find my thaughts somewhat contradictory...
I mean, what if it's halloween and the lady says take one piece of candy(king size snickers bars!), you do, then you come back in a new costume and she tells you take one piece of candy... this surely is no crime, immoral? ehhh such a fine line but I still say no.
A good arguement against this would to put yourself in the position of the poker sites, if you were the poker sites would you want an individual double dipping? no, yet if I was the poker site and they were good enough to use all different "masking" things so it couldn't be detected, o well I'm shit out of luck. If I'm still making money from the site I'm not gonna be complaining to much about it anyway if its not widespread because as long as they *arn't donig something like zeejustine, there is no gauruntee that they arn't still making me money by making another ac... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: AlanN at April 10, 2007, 8:35 am | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | krummpoker wrote: I kinda agree with slapdashes views.. but I'm not really sure I find my thaughts somewhat contradictory...
I mean, what if it's halloween and the lady says take one piece of candy(king size snickers bars!), you do, then you come back in a new costume and she tells you take one piece of candy... this surely is no crime, immoral? ehhh such a fine line but I still say no.
A good arguement against this would to put yourself in the position of the poker sites, if you were the poker sites would you want an individual double dipping? no, yet if I was the poker site and they were good enough to use all different "masking" things so it couldn't be detected, o well I'm shit out of luck. If I'm still making money from the site I'm not gonna be complaining to much about it anyway if its not widespread because as long as they *arn't donig something like zeejustine, there is no gauruntee that they arn't still making me money by making another account even with the b... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: krummpoker at April 9, 2007, 6:01 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | I kinda agree with slapdashes views.. but I'm not really sure I find my thaughts somewhat contradictory...
I mean, what if it's halloween and the lady says take one piece of candy(king size snickers bars!), you do, then you come back in a new costume and she tells you take one piece of candy... this surely is no crime, immoral? ehhh such a fine line but I still say no.
A good arguement against this would to put yourself in the position of the poker sites, if you were the poker sites would you want an individual double dipping? no, yet if I was the poker site and they were good enough to use all different "masking" things so it couldn't be detected, o well I'm shit out of luck. If I'm still making money from the site I'm not gonna be complaining to much about it anyway if its not widespread because as long as they *arn't donig something like zeejustine, there is no gauruntee that they arn't still making me money by making another account even with the bonuses.
*Things... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: hackermike at April 8, 2007, 1:47 am | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | | its funny because way back in the day, this site was all about talking about gnoming. this site is where i learned about it from. not sure when the tide changed but it for the best for the industry. la aarkme pineste. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: SlapDash at April 5, 2007, 4:33 am | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | Mitch wrote: SlapDash wrote:
Zeejustin logged into six different accounts and entered them all in the same tourney, all from the same IP. Sure, he lost quite a bit of dosh but he's not a con, is he?
Yes he is a con. From what i have read he has admitted he was very wrong in his actions...
I could have put that in a less slurry way. What I meant was that he's not convicted of any crime and I seriously doubt any charges against him would stick in court. Well, at least if he finds a reasonably sober lawyer without any major conditions. For me there's a deep line in the sand between gnoming for bonuses and self-collusion. The latter is all bad. And dumb. That's the weird part of that whole Zeejustin story. He was dumb enough to do it but still smart enough to play winning poker. With an edge, but still winning poker.
And daraider, shame on you for giving good money to poker sites! Hell, I feel bad when I'm emptying an account I'm never gonna use again for $... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: daraider at April 5, 2007, 12:31 am | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | yeah, but i didn't want them to take it back themselves or anything. I loved the site cause it is very fishie.
400 isn't that much to me, just a couple of buy ins.
I guess i just feel too guilty. Hell I even felt guilty when I beat someones AA all in preflop with my AA.
But back to the topic at hand, my point was the 2 are linked. I feel exactly the same way about bots. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mitch at April 4, 2007, 11:25 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: Yes your right, it is much more serious with what they did. But my point is where do you draw the line. Just like zeejustin tried to rationalise his cheating.
People who multi-account for bonuses clearly have the same level of integrity. They figure this is a great way to make more money. Soon they will be trying to do what zeejustin did.
One poker site recently accidently gave me triple rakeback, 600 instead of 200, so i emailed them and told them. I hate to think how many people took the money and ran.
ok, maybe i didn't make myself clear enough. I totally agree with you! Hence this quote:
Quote: The OP opening multiple accounts but only ever playing one at a time is clearly wrong in my opinion.
What i meant was that i was totally against gnoming, but i felt that what zeejustin etc did was much worse.
I don't know if i would have emailed them about the rakeback though! An extra $400 would have been nice. I strangel... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: daraider at April 4, 2007, 11:12 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | Mitch wrote: SlapDash wrote:
Zeejustin logged into six different accounts and entered them all in the same tourney, all from the same IP. Sure, he lost quite a bit of dosh but he's not a con, is he?
Yes he is a con. From what i have read he has admitted he was very wrong in his actions and is now playing very well in live events. But you cant seriously tell me that if you happened to come to a table with 10players and 3 of them were the same guy you would be ok with it! Especially in a large buy in event where 1 or 2 places can mean $1000s. This is a very serious crime!
But this type of gnoming is a much more serious offense than the OP was suggesting. The OP opening multiple accounts but only ever playing one at a time is clearly wrong in my opinion but it doesn't hurt me directly. One major problem arises if so many people start doing this that entire countries get banned as has happened in the past.
I have thought about opening multiple accounts but d... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mitch at April 4, 2007, 9:57 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | SlapDash wrote:
Zeejustin logged into six different accounts and entered them all in the same tourney, all from the same IP. Sure, he lost quite a bit of dosh but he's not a con, is he?
Yes he is a con. From what i have read he has admitted he was very wrong in his actions and is now playing very well in live events. But you cant seriously tell me that if you happened to come to a table with 10players and 3 of them were the same guy you would be ok with it! Especially in a large buy in event where 1 or 2 places can mean $1000s. This is a very serious crime!
But this type of gnoming is a much more serious offense than the OP was suggesting. The OP opening multiple accounts but only ever playing one at a time is clearly wrong in my opinion but it doesn't hurt me directly. One major problem arises if so many people start doing this that entire countries get banned as has happened in the past.
I have thought about opening multiple accounts but decided against it.
<... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: daraider at April 4, 2007, 9:40 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | It is bad because you asking them to pretect the integrity of the game, and the safty of your money yet you clearly violating the terms and conditions.
To further this, although you may not be using it this you could use your multiple accounts to gain an unfair advantage. eg zeejustin and ablackcar | | Static Link |
| Posted by: SlapDash at April 4, 2007, 6:27 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | I have checked my PM's and this was my reply to YinYang's communiqué:
"Hi there,
Thanks for the heads-up. It's probably not a good idea to start sending PM's on BW on how to max out your bonus possibilities. Koko made things pretty clear in the thread and I really think we should respect that. Anyhoops, just beacause I decided to serve a slice of controvercy to the board doesn't mean I'm the big gnoming-guru. To be honest, I feel it's strongly against those wretched ol' laws of probablity to think that I'm the BW poster who's got the most accounts.
There's no complex formula to it and I have no big answers. Except maybe don't worry too much - Zen out, mate!
Good luck at the tables, and at sucking the most out of the poker sites!"
Still waiting for somebody to explain why it's a bad thing to knock the sites over for a few extra dublones...
_________________
Whory-whores, come out to play-ay! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: SlapDash at April 3, 2007, 7:31 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | You've got a point there, Pinos. That Gnoming 101 I originally posted might have been a bit too much. Got a bit carried away...
Quick, clean kill by mod, though! You play a lot of turbo tourneys, Koko?
_________________
Whory-whores, come out to play-ay! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Pinos at April 3, 2007, 6:34 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | I don't consider gnoming as ilegal, gambling is ilegal in my country (poker, not sports or bingo), so i take more risks than an average person. I am however against gnoming and i know that if want to two-times a site i will do it very careful job covering my tracks.
I think this thread belongs at other forum and i'd love to see more opinions, not a howto however. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: SlapDash at April 3, 2007, 5:46 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | Some people here seem to be clinging on very hard to the idea of gnoming as such being a crime. It doesn't have to be, it all depends on how you do it. It's true that it could constitute a number of different crimes - fraud, fraudulent behaviour and forgery of documents all come to mind. There's probably a few more you could get yourself tangled in if you're not careful, or completely careless... damn, you probably need wear a t-shirt with your account logins and opt for a no-lawyer-trial where you answer "Yes" to every question to get convicted actually.
Bottom line is there are a number of ways you could do this that will render any proceedings against you useless. Legislation is absolutely toothless in this area since there are only doubtful ways to carry the burden of proof, or more likely drag it behind, uphill. A common problem in cyber-crime, just look at the whole file-sharing business. Does an IP really represent a person? Does a computer represent a person? How can we be sure n... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Pinos at April 3, 2007, 4:45 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | I didnt get to read what slapdash posted but its kinda simple to findout a way to gnome, if it wasn't easy there wouldnt be morons trying to do it, and then get caught. The thing about explaining them howto is that they will get caught, their funds be confiscated, i dont want that... one fish less
Plus gnoming translates into self-collusion... i don't think you or i or anybody wants to play a 6seat table where all 6 seats are taken but only by three players (including yourself), thats a big no-no for poker gnoming in my books. I don't mind casino gnoming. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: DrStrange at April 3, 2007, 2:32 pm | | Topic: milking the same cow again and again? Forum: Bonus Whores | Gnoming causes problems for the affiliate and others. I hope all of us can appreciate the risk BW management runs if they allowed 'how to gnome' posts. Keep in mind the administrators are paid staff and/or business owners - if the business gets screwed up it costs them big time.
Gnoming has its risks for the player as well. Like most crimes (yes, gnoming is a crime - it is called fraud.), you often get away with the first one. But it can become a bad habit. The signup bonuses are generally much richer than on-going bonuses - making it temping to redo the 5X signup many times rather than wait for the occational 10X reload. Sooner or later you will make an error and get caught if you make enough gnome accounts. (Neteller might also catch you as well if you are setting up multiple Neteller accounts.)
I expect the poker rooms share the identies of 'crooks and frauds' with each other. Several high profile situtations have occured in the past where sites did exactly that. Gnoming can ... | | Read Entire Entry |
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