| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 12, 2007, 9:42 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by inylweatherman
...
The reason why threads keep going after the initial complaint is resolved is the way casinos continually mishandle these cases. When the account was sent for further review this was to check more thoroughly, however the player was told the FINAL decision had already been made, and there would be NO review...
They admitted that mistakes were made, and it's unfortunate that mistakes are still made by experienced casinos. But when you have humans behind the scene, perhaps even new employees, there is always room for human error. I agree that the casino needs to rewrite it's preliminary account closure statement - it was too abrupt and final.
Another issue - that may not be associated with case, but it is associated with dealing with players in general - is to keep your cynicism in check. One must always consider that there are dolphins in the tuna net.
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| Posted by: PSB at November 11, 2007, 4:44 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Paj
I am logged in and playing again, not getting my hopes up until I cash out.
When I saw the casino's response of "We consider this matter closed." I was furious and if they had of confiscated the deposit in my eyes it would of been theft. Unfortunatly as said there really would of been nothing I could have done.
A huge thank you to Casinomeister for giving the casino a poke and getting the problem resolved
Funny how this thread went off tangent and everyone seemed to forget about the OP Paj.
Paj, what's your experience been since returning? Did you eventually wager enough to cash out?
Here's hoping you got what you were looking for
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at November 10, 2007, 2:00 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote:
Committing fraud is criminal activity. I don't think you could convince a casino to return the deposit of a fraudster - but I'm sure many casinos have policies that dictate that they do so - it all depends on the circumstances. I know of a number of cases where players have submitted phony IDs - yet they all had their deposits returned to them.
It is up to the courts to decide that though, casinos cant just "steal" a deposit because an attempt was made to steal from them. In many cases, the money probably does not even belong to the fraudster, but to a third party, or even the bank if they obtained a credit card using the same fake identity. It is really up to the bank to decide what to do, and shoud lock down the card/account when the casino confirms fraud.
In order to have any justification to keep a deposit, the casino should get a court order from their licencing juristiction, and this can act as a receipt for the player concerned, who can then opt to ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: BBKPoker at November 10, 2007, 2:59 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
How did the Mainstreet group end up rogued? As far as I know they're still behaving nicely. One of the few decent RTGs left BTW
FL got hit up by massive fraud/mixed in with advantage players, and didn't handle it well.
Minivegas got nailed by massive fraud/mixed in with advantage players, didn't handle it well either.
Casino Fortune went off to bizarro land - no pay and totally whacked out.
Casino Rewards - messed up some bonus terms and felt the wrath.
Hippojo - they are actually still communicating - but not well I'm afraid. They are partial paying the players, and I hope to get further info from them.
You are correct on the indicators. There are numerous ways in which to spot phony accounts. Even here in the forum, I have people signing up with the same email address and trying to pretend that they are different people. It doesn't take an Einstein to figure some of this out.
Most casinos have fraud ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 9, 2007, 9:02 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
How did the Mainstreet group end up rogued? As far as I know they're still behaving nicely. One of the few decent RTGs left BTW
FL got hit up by massive fraud/mixed in with advantage players, and didn't handle it well.
Minivegas got nailed by massive fraud/mixed in with advantage players, didn't handle it well either.
Casino Fortune went off to bizarro land - no pay and totally whacked out.
Casino Rewards - messed up some bonus terms and felt the wrath.
Hippojo - they are actually still communicating - but not well I'm afraid. They are partial paying the players, and I hope to get further info from them.
You are correct on the indicators. There are numerous ways in which to spot phony accounts. Even here in the forum, I have people signing up with the same email address and trying to pretend that they are different people. It doesn't take an Einstein to figure some of this out.
Most casinos have fraud departments that review suspicious accounts. Somet... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: BBKPoker at November 9, 2007, 12:26 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by PSB
Meister, I know you don't want to give away the casino's fraud team secrets, but can you give clues on whether or not what some posters here have written are spot on - or way off base?
what is an identifier exactly - without naming the specific one(s) involved in this case? sorry, as a newbie I have no idea what an identifier is.
A number of things could be used as identifiers: Mac Address, IP address, email, address, home address, phone number, a big group from one city all hitting them "coincidentally" at the same time, etc. My opinion is that the less obvious ones should be excused. I.E., I think that a bonus syndicate playing their legitimate accounts in a profitable manner and all signing up at the same time because they discovered a new casino and are hitting it is perfectly legitimate, and assuming they are playing their accounts with their real ID, and their own e-wallets, they should be paid as promptly and courteous... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: BBKPoker at November 9, 2007, 12:18 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
BKKpoker - if you have an old issue with them, please PAB and I'll find out what happened to your deposit.
I worked out all my issues with them by dealing with their rep directly, they don't owe me any money at all. I still think that it needs to be addressed that their standard operating procedure is to steal deposits from those who's accounts they've "blocked".
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| Posted by: PSB at November 8, 2007, 10:57 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
the player's account was flagged and locked for potential fraud - there were identifiers that I am not privileged to discuss that connected him to a fraud ring.
Meister, I know you don't want to give away the casino's fraud team secrets, but can you give clues on whether or not what some posters here have written are spot on - or way off base?
what is an identifier exactly - without naming the specific one(s) involved in this case? sorry, as a newbie I have no idea what an identifier is.
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| Posted by: PSB at November 8, 2007, 10:23 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Keyser I agree that email is strongly worded. Sounds like there's no way out.
But I think this thread is going in circles... the OP is long gone, with the issue taken care of. It's curious how other posters keep hammering away at the original email, despite what's transpired since.
Surely their "Customer Care Team" has undergone reviews? One wonders if the person responsible for writing the original message was talked to? He he , what if she/he were even aware of this thread? Imagine the shame from first taking a hard line suggesting the player's account was blocked permanently to the casino management stepping in and reversing the decision...thereby nullifying anything she/he wrote.
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| Posted by: Keyser at November 8, 2007, 9:09 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Paj
Thank you for your inquiry. Your account has been permanently blocked
by our Operations Department. The reason for blockage is that your
computer used to set up your player account has been connected to a
known fraud ring. There will be no further debits and/or credits posted
to your credit card or your preferred payment method and thus no
winnings will be paid out.
Regards,
Customer Care Team
I am glad that things have worked out and, as Bryan said, the casino themselves initiated the second review of his account. However, this Email, as inylweatherman points out, is entirely unacceptable. "Permanently blocked" is what it means, and there is no way for the player to think that the casino is acting in a reasonable manner.
Why not an EMail stating "Your account is locked and under review because it appears that your computer used to set up your player account has been connected to ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 8, 2007, 8:38 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
From the casino:
Quote:
Ultra Internet Media SA (UIM), the owner/operator of Everest Poker, Everest Casino and several other prominent online casinos has never accepted US play throughout its 10 year history of operations. For a brief period in 2006, there was collaboration with a third party based in the UK, whereby this third party offered gaming to US players under a few of our brands. The entire customer relationship, including processing of deposits and cashouts and servicing of these customers was handled by this third party and neither UIM nor the technology provider received any financial benefit. Only a ery small number of US based players were involved and the relationship ended in July of 2006.
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at November 8, 2007, 10:30 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
I asked them about the confiscation of advantage player deposits and their policy dictates that this is not done.
I haven't seen any evidence of the confiscations of deposits from this group, and I have in contact with them since 1999. As far as I know, the only time deposits have been forfeited is from fraudsters.
If there is evidence of this claim - please post it here. And please don't include complaints that are associate with player fraud.
BKKpoker - if you have an old issue with them, please PAB and I'll find out what happened to your deposit.
Some confusion still seems to exist between GRAND Virtual, and the !Queen of Rogue City", the VIRTUAL group, who DO indeed confiscate anything they deem fit.
One thing that DOES need clearing up is whether the OP did anything at all "wrong" that could have lead them to receive this most direct of accusations from the casino:-
<... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 8, 2007, 9:58 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by inylweatherman
This is the whole point, but before they discovered the issue to be with the weekend crew, they tried, convicted, and executed the player, who had no alternative than to find another means to argue their case, as the player was told "case closed". .
Actually, this is not the case. Over the weekend the player's account was flagged and locked for potential fraud - there were identifiers that I am not privileged to discuss that connected him to a fraud ring. When the head management returned to the office on Monday, this case went through a standard second round of review, and they requested his docs which cleared him. This was done without my intervention and coincidentally when this thread was initiated.
GV gets hit up by many fraud rings, mostly from Israel and the UK (this is well documented here in the forum). But sure, this causes casinos like this to be igilant to protect their business and mistakes can be made... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 8, 2007, 9:38 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
I asked them about the confiscation of advantage player deposits and their policy dictates that this is not done.
I haven't seen any evidence of the confiscations of deposits from this group, and I have in contact with them since 1999. As far as I know, the only time deposits have been forfeited is from fraudsters.
If there is evidence of this claim - please post it here. And please don't include complaints that are associate with player fraud.
BKKpoker - if you have an old issue with them, please PAB and I'll find out what happened to your deposit.
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at November 8, 2007, 3:31 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
Well I know from the git-go, the Grand Virtual properties did not accept US bets. And when they were listed on this site years ago.
Check out their casino website screen shots from the Wayback machine:
Casino Treasure 1999
http://web.archive.org/web/199901250...otreasure.com/
Casino Fantasy
http://web.archive.org/web/199805041...nofantasy.com/
Imperial Casino
http://web.archive.org/web/200003020...ialcasino.com/
all state "void in US" - perhaps they temporarily opened their doors, but shut them again. I could find out for sure but this is beside the point.
I've been in touch with them and they explained in detail what had happened. It seems the weekend crew had some miscommunications - but it is sorted out. Good thing. I'm tiring of the fraud crap. We've had another Casinomeister member (senior member) caught out as a fraudster today.
The bottom ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: BBKPoker at November 8, 2007, 2:02 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
Well I know from the git-go, the Grand Virtual properties did not accept US bets. And when they were listed on this site years ago.
Check out their casino website screen shots from the Wayback machine:
Casino Treasure 1999
http://web.archive.org/web/199901250...otreasure.com/
Casino Fantasy
http://web.archive.org/web/199805041...nofantasy.com/
Imperial Casino
http://web.archive.org/web/200003020...ialcasino.com/
all state "void in US" - perhaps they temporarily opened their doors, but shut them again. I could find out for sure but this is beside the point.
I've been in touch with them and they explained in detail what had happened. It seems the weekend crew had some miscommunications - but it is sorted out. Good thing. I'm tiring of the fraud crap. We've had another Casinomeister member (senior member) caught out as a fraudster today.
The bottom ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: BBKPoker at November 8, 2007, 2:01 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
Good post bbk - thanks for the DVDs
By the way, the Grand Virtual group has never accepted US bets - I'm just making sure you're not confusing them with another group of casinos.
I'm almost certain they took bets from US customers 1 1/2- 2 1/2 years ago. However, I may have played them when I was working/living in Edinburgh and remembering them from there. Entirely possible, but I'm 100% sure I'm not confused regarding the group.
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| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 7, 2007, 9:15 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by jerrylee
with all due respect Casinomeister this is incorrect. Up until ~Oct 2006 Grand Virtual did accept US players for real money. Now it's play money only.
Anyway, nice to see Paj got what he wanted...his account opened and even a bonus to boot.
Well I know from the git-go, the Grand Virtual properties did not accept US bets. And when they were listed on this site years ago.
Check out their casino website screen shots from the Wayback machine:
Casino Treasure 1999
http://web.archive.org/web/199901250...otreasure.com/
Casino Fantasy
http://web.archive.org/web/199805041...nofantasy.com/
Imperial Casino
http://web.archive.org/web/200003020...ialcasino.com/
all state "void in US" - perhaps they temporarily opened their doors, but shut them again. I could find out for sure but this is beside the point.
I've been in touch with them and they explained i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: jerrylee at November 7, 2007, 8:49 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
By the way, the Grand Virtual group has never accepted US bets - I'm just making sure you're not confusing them with another group of casinos.
with all due respect Casinomeister this is incorrect. Up until ~Oct 2006 Grand Virtual did accept US players for real money. Now it's play money only.
Anyway, nice to see Paj got what he wanted...his account opened and even a bonus to boot.
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| Posted by: chuchu59 at November 7, 2007, 4:54 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
This is serious. If the reason given for not refunding deposits was bonus abuse, then this is downright 'rogue' behaviour. There has been a lot of debate on 'bonus abuse' but we were always talking about 'winnings' being confiscated and even the worst casinos in my book did not try to confiscate deposits. Are they really so desperate after the loss of US players?
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| Posted by: BBKPoker at November 7, 2007, 3:48 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Nope, I'm not at all mistaken.
I had plenty of problems (and pitched several bitches ) about the Virtual Group, specifically Cool Cat Casino, Prism, and Palace of Chance. I've also had a number of problems with Imperial Casino, Casino Elegance and Casino Treasure who belong to Grand Virtual, and all of whom used to pay me overnight back before they disallowed US players, and then one day decided I was a bonus abuser even though I was doing most of my recreational gambling on there at that point, and often depositing with no bonus at all. I was told my account was blocked, I would get none of my winnings, and none of my deposits would be refunded. Their form email was nearly identical to ones two different friends received, after I had referred them. I know they both played with bonuses, but neither fits the description of a bonus hunter or abuser, they both like slots and high edge table games like roulette and let it ride, and all they really care about is that they get paid on the infrequent ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: PSB at November 7, 2007, 3:02 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by BBKPoker
I still think Grand Virtual needs to explain why it is that their standard operating procedure for people they decide are fraudulent is to steal their deposits, this happened to me and others, is documented in other threads, and has never been explained.
BBKPoker interesting suggestion, but I think you are mistaken.
I looked up your past posts.
I found
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...uestion-2.html
which is about the Virtual Group.
Grand Virtual is different.
So maybe you concluded wrongly?
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| Posted by: BBKPoker at November 7, 2007, 1:57 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
I still think Grand Virtual needs to explain why it is that their standard operating procedure for people they decide are fraudulent is to steal their deposits, this happened to me and others, is documented in other threads, and has never been explained.
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| Posted by: Paj at November 7, 2007, 12:27 am | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
I am logged in and playing again, not getting my hopes up until I cash out.
When I saw the casino's response of "We consider this matter closed." I was furious and if they had of confiscated the deposit in my eyes it would of been theft. Unfortunatly as said there really would of been nothing I could have done.
A huge thank you to Casinomeister for giving the casino a poke and getting the problem resolved
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| Posted by: BBKPoker at November 6, 2007, 11:07 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
Let's not start jumping to a lot of conclusions and start hammering away at a casino that has acted in good faith. They are giving this player a second chance.
I'm sure you meant this comment in general and not just to me, but I'm not hammering away at a casino, or jumping to a conclusion. I know for a fact that Grand Virtual's standard mode of operation when they decide not to pay a player is to not pay him his winnings or even refund a deposit because it has happened to me, and it has happened to people I referred to them, back before they tried to steal from me. I got a satisfactory result, but it took a lot of my time and effort, and I doubt that most people are as diligent as I am at getting paid by rogue operations (IE, the brouhaha I went through to get paid by Virtual in the brief period they were on probation). I personally would never play at Grand Virtual again after the ordeal I went through with them, and its a shame consid... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: PSB at November 6, 2007, 10:53 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Paj
I'm not really sure why this happened. They e-mailed me asking for driving license, recent bill and moneybookers screenshot. Provided this and they removed the block.
casinomeister, here's your update.
Paj have you tried logging in since then?
What did you decide to do... hey maybe you can win even more money with this new bonus lol
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| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 6, 2007, 10:46 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Perhaps I should have posted this yesterday, but as far as what I have been told, this is not over yet. When I contacted the casino, the fraud squad unblocked this player's account and requested further documents. As soon as these docs are erified, they will release these funds.
Let's not start jumping to a lot of conclusions and start hammering away at a casino that has acted in good faith. They are giving this player a second chance.
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| Posted by: PSB at November 6, 2007, 10:34 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by BBKPoker
How can a casino that won't even refund your deposit if they decide not to pay be accredited?
Just a guess, but maybe they suspected that player (not the one subject of this thread) to be connected to a real fraud ring... like credit card fraud or moneybookers fraud or whatever. You know, there must be real fraudsters using stolen funds, other people's moneybookers accounts, whatever... and then trying to turn a deposit into a big win.
Why should those folks get their deposit refunded?
I believe a number of casinos have conditions that say they can freeze all of your account balance, if it comes down to blocking your account for ever.
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| Posted by: PSB at November 6, 2007, 10:30 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Paj
This has now been cleared up and they added a $75 bonus to my acccount also for the inconvenience caused.
Interesting situation. From blocked to released and a $75 bonus.
Why would a casino go from freezing the funds to rewarding the player to return!
Wow, I am new here..but amazed.
I did see it's an accredited casino, so I guess they want to protect their reputation.
To address previous posters, I think there's more than meets the eye in this case. Surely the person who wrote the casino's reply or the persons who were involved were shamed if they ever saw this thread.
and is the casino adjusting their methodology for tracking fraud as a result of this public exposure?
All questions that may remain unanswered.
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| Posted by: BBKPoker at November 6, 2007, 8:42 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
I'm actually ery surprised that Grand Virtual is accredited at all, because when they decide they are going to not pay someone (which happens somewhat frequently from the forum threads I've read and my own personal experiences with them) they not only DON'T pay your winnings (bad enough) they REFUSE to refund your deposit, and tell you that your e-wallet has been permanently blocked from any other transactions (which includes a refund of your deposit).
How can a casino that won't even refund your deposit if they decide not to pay be accredited?
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| Posted by: Pinababy69 at November 6, 2007, 8:24 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by inylweatherman
here is an innocent player who would probably NEVER have got justice had they not known there was another avenue for appeal. This has happened not with a rogue, or "not recommended" casino, but an accredited one!
I couldn't have said it better VWM. How many players does this happen to that don't know a place such as Casinomeister exists? No day in court, no appeal..guilty, account locked, money confiscated...done deal. It sure doesn't inspire confidence in this industry.
I've said this before but it bears repeating. I pity newbie players who are just now getting into online gaming, and don't have a clue how things work or where to turn when they have a problem. Bonus abuse, white labels, accusations of fraud where none exist, rogue casinos that offer 500% bonuses too good to pass up....the list goes on. Scary.
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at November 6, 2007, 7:48 pm | | Topic: Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed Forum: Casino Meister |
I find these stories rather annoying. First the casino accuses the player of fraud, and more or less gives "case closed - no appeal", and will not look into it further. Then casinomeister contacts the casino rep and all of a sudden it's a horrible mistake and player gets $75 bonus.
WHY WAS THIS NOT RESOLVED INTERNALLY IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!
While there is fraud in many of these cases, and Bryan does indeed find them out, here is an innocent player who would probably NEVER have got justice had they not known there was another avenue for appeal. This has happened not with a rogue, or "not recommended" casino, but an accredited one!
Casinos have to take this matter more seriously, and PROPERLY investigate such issues before levelling accusations, trial, jury, and execution at the player involved. This industry is having trouble enough already with it's reputation in some quarters, and must remember that there really is NO official redress for players beyond t... | | Read Entire Entry |
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