| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 28, 2008, 12:35 am | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Komodo
Same complaint
Its a matter of money too. Cashing out to MB is free.
Cashing out to a bank account with different currency, then transfer it back to MB is a lot of extra work and costs money.
Also Im pretty sure Interwetten has it written in the TC that the player must cash out the same way as he/she deposited, which they religiously dont follow.
Certain circumstances??? We are talking about every player who has made a deposit ia MB!
This is the big problem. They are using a term that is supposed to be an EXCEPTION to the general rule, and turning it into the general rule. With contradictory terms, it does not matter how well the player reads and understands them, they still have no idea where they stand. They are CLEARLY trying to play down the issue, as if they stated CLEARLY that ALL players would get their first withdrawal by bank wire, they would get some players who would decide not to deposit ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Komodo at January 25, 2008, 3:30 am | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Same complaint
Its a matter of money too. Cashing out to MB is free.
Cashing out to a bank account with different currency, then transfer it back to MB is a lot of extra work and costs money.
Also Im pretty sure Interwetten has it written in the TC that the player must cash out the same way as he/she deposited, which they religiously dont follow.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rob
That does not change the fact that the terms and conditions state that bank transfer may be the only method available in certain circumstances, and the player agreed to abide by these terms when they signed up.
Certain circumstances??? We are talking about every player who has made a deposit ia MB!
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 23, 2008, 12:15 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by erp1
Interwetten holds a class 1 and class 2 license from Malta. As such they are one of the rather few operators that must follow rules from a genuine regulation body.
Opposite casinoes that are licensed and "regulated" somewhere in Latin America or Kahnawake they can't just do what they like.
That does at least give the OP another complaint option. It should be based on the undesirability of being forced to divulge personal bank details, with the attendant risk, when the OP specifically chose to use an eWallet in order to keep his bank details private from the internet.
There was a similar ID issue a while back, where a US player was told to send his social security card details. He objected due to the risk of these details falling into the wrong hands, and complained to eCogra, who ruled that the casino had to use an alternative form of ID for checking the player's alidity.
Further, if anything DID happen... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: erp1 at January 21, 2008, 6:34 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by inylweatherman
This is a case of a casino that can do what it likes, because they cannot be held to account however badly they behave. Are they based in Kahnawake by any chance?
Interwetten holds a class 1 and class 2 license from Malta. As such they are one of the rather few operators that must follow rules from a genuine regulation body.
Opposite casinoes that are licensed and "regulated" somewhere in Latin America or Kahnawake they can't just do what they like.
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 21, 2008, 11:07 am | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
There is another way out for this complainant, and it is something other players have done BECAUSE they don't trust casinos with their bank details.
This involves opening an account at a different bank, with said account ONLY being used for online gaming. With this approach, the player's main bank account is safeguarded from any leakage of sensitive information from the casinos. The player would only use the account to move money around between casinos, eWallets, and, of course, to accept bank wires. Said player would ensure that funds that were not earmarked for immediate use were transferred to their main bank account, out of reach of any risk posed by leakage of the bank details.
If the worst happend, the player could close the compromised account without all the inconvenience that would result should it be their main account that became compromised.
The OP should open a new bank account to receive this $160 back, and then keep this account for the possibility this may happen aga... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: malleeboy at January 21, 2008, 10:30 am | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by inylweatherman
There are numerous complaints about casinos forcing unwanted withdrawal methods on players. The casino here is blaming EXTERNAL regulations, if it down to merely the whim of management, they are STILL LYING by trying to blame "laws" for what is merely the whim of management.
Most casinos insist on paying back to the method of deposit. In this case, Moneybookers. There is no question here that being able to refund back to Moneybookers is something that ALL casinos can do if they have a merchant account there to accept the deposits. The hidden agenda is that they are not willling to disclose why they REALLY can't refund to Moneybookers, but the recent Playtech/Neteller issue has given the game away. Casinos were using every trick they could think of to resist paying out to Neteller, in order to hise the fact that they had not been erified by Neteller, and thus were not allowed to add fresh funds to their merchant accounts. This mean... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Rob at January 21, 2008, 1:06 am | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Im not questioning whether it is right or wrong, I am simply stating that he will not get his money back through moneybookers, and there i sno point him arguing it because he agreed to those terms when he signed up.
Yes it might be worth asking why, but the terms when he signed up stated that under certain circumstances withdrawal to bank transfer is the only way. Don't mean to be arguing
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 21, 2008, 12:46 am | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Rob
That does not change the fact that the terms and conditions state that bank transfer may be the only method available in certain circumstances, and the player agreed to abide by these terms when they signed up.
The casino MUST define these "certain circumstances" though, for the term to be clear enough for the player to know what to expect. Casinos also have their "F U clauses", but it doesn't make it right when they use them without good reason.
The casino's stance makes no sense at all. A FRAUDSTER who had hold of someone else's Moneybookers account could use this term to steal the money. They could deposit by Moneybookers, and then wait for the casino to insist they be paid by bank draft. They submit the bank details, and their ID documents, money is then paid to the bank. When the fraud is discovered, the money is lost, because the casino went against the principles of minimising the risk of moneylaundering. The pay b... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Rob at January 20, 2008, 5:08 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
That does not change the fact that the terms and conditions state that bank transfer may be the only method available in certain circumstances, and the player agreed to abide by these terms when they signed up.
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 20, 2008, 4:15 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
I cannot agree. When the player signed up, they believed that "as a rule" they could be paid by moneybookers. Since the player has provided ID documentation, these is no need for this to be a case of "in certain circumstances". Since this player does NOT want to play, they should be entitied to have their deposit refunded and account permanently closed. ID is of no consequence where the player no longer wants to play, and the deposit simply returned from where it came.
The casino, for their part, should have clarified the rule as to when a bank transfer would be needed, they failed to do this UNTIL the player made the deposit. It is not unreasonable for the player to want to keep their bank details private, as MANY frauds can be done just from knowing someone's bank details. Here in the UK, it is possible to set up a direct debit electronically without a signature, the bank details are enough. Many have fallen ictim to this kind of fraud, and sadly the biggest culprits hav... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Rob at January 20, 2008, 3:33 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by mikehendi
But immideately, it states:
Such a withdrawal will, as a rule, be made in the same manner as the respective deposit
Meaning they OBLIGE me to use moneybookers (which is what I want of course).
Next they say:
"In order to alidate the identity of the player/customer, withdrawals may in certain cases be made only by bank transfer…."
A copy of my ID-card / drivers license will do fine instead, if you ask me.
I like how you highlight the bit in bold that supports your iewpoint then put the remainder of the sentence as a foot note.
The key part of that sentence is actually withdrawals may in certain cases be made only by bank transfer, and you agreed to these terms when you signed up at interwetten, you are bound by these terms and no amount of arguing will change the situation.
So the best coursse of action would be to just wager through your deposit 1x ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 20, 2008, 3:25 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
This is a case of a casino that can do what it likes, because they cannot be held to account however badly they behave. Are they based in Kahnawake by any chance?
They seem to be contradicting their own rules, you want their standard rules to apply, but they seem to want to make an exception in your case.
They seem to want possession of your bank details, and this means you have to trust them. The ewallet system was designed to ensure players could hide their bank and card details from the end merchant, as this could allow their misuse, and this has indeed happened on some occasions.
ID issues are usually dealt with by sending documents, your bank details will NOT erify your identity, UNLESS they intend contacting your bank to erify that the ID they have matches the details on your bank account. This means that not only do they want your bank details, but they want to invade your privacy by using them to contact your bank.
As for prevention of money laundering, bullshite!... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mikehendi at January 19, 2008, 10:58 am | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Here's the whole email conversation.
When I found out I couldn't withdraw with moneybookers (the same way I deposited), I sent the first email:
================================
mikehendi sent:
Hello,
I'm sorry to say I've changed my mind regarding playing in your casino.
I've deposited using moneybookers, so I didn't expect it to be a problem to cash out again to moneybookers. Unfortunately, it is!!!
Although I deposited with moneybookers, you state that I MUST withdraw with a bank transfer, before I can withdraw with moneybookers.
First, the main reason why I use moneybookers, is that I DON'T want my personal/private bank account data to be spread around the internet everywhere.
Second, there's the currency issues. You make make me convert $ to €, and then back to $.
Third, standard procedures are that one can always withdraw using the same method he has deposited, at least for the amount of the depo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 18, 2008, 9:32 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by gerilege
They simply don't provide moneybookers as a payout option for me even after several cashouts, only wire transfer.
Edit: I removed wrong assumptions, because of explanation in reply to my post
This is silly, if a player's circumstances changes, their only choice would be to take their custom elsewhere to a place that accepts their preferred payout options.
They should be making their policy clear from the outset. If they have a table that lists Moneybookers as a withdrawal option, they should not then tell players it isn't only when they have played.
Not all players actually have bank accounts, it depends on their credit rating, which dictates what banking services they will be accepted for. Without a bank account, receiving bank wires and cheques is difficult, as they have to be passed through a third party, which is pretty much what money laundering is about.
This outfit should stop blaming external rul... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mikehendi at January 18, 2008, 6:04 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Thank you all for your replies! I see that I still have a leg to stand on here. My original post contains some misconceptions though, I used my own words to describe their answer (for example, they didn't literally say "we keep 10% since you haven't done ANY wagering).
I will post the entire email-conversation later tonight (in a few hours, that is).
But really, thank you all ery much!
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| Posted by: Rob at January 18, 2008, 2:26 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by gerilege
They simply don't provide moneybookers as a payout option for me even after several cashouts, only wire transfer. So I guess the first withdrawal should go ia wire transfer is only an excuse. As they and you are both in the EU and probably have EUR accounts, wire transfer is probably cheaper for them than moneybookers, and I guess that they have a sportbook-like mentality, withdrawals should be rare and big, so they probably think that no wide range of options is required.
Did you first deposit ia credit card, if so you cannot withdraw ia moneybookers ever.
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| Posted by: gerilege at January 18, 2008, 2:18 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
They simply don't provide moneybookers as a payout option for me even after several cashouts, only wire transfer.
Edit: I removed wrong assumptions, because of explanation in reply to my post
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 18, 2008, 2:14 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by uungy
i still have about £100 stuck in payspark(probably they have taken £10 a week for not using the account now) when bellerock decided to pay it out like that, even thogh i requested it to neteller. (they only let you withdraw your balance mninus £10 for charges, incase you go over etc)
so there is definatly something behind this payment saga
Can't you just drop this into another MG casino?
Payspark were/are based in Lebanon, and had some kind of crisis a while back. I was given a Payspark account by BelleRock (and another by Jackpot Factory), but resisted temptations to activate it, but they did try to get me to use it. I was right not to do so, because after their crisis they just seemed to anish with player's funds - they did not return contact attempts, and the accounts were inaccessible for a while. I think they rebranded as EZpay, and work for non-US players at MG casinos.
There was certainly something ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: uungy at January 18, 2008, 1:43 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
i still have about £100 stuck in payspark(probably they have taken £10 a week for not using the account now) when bellerock decided to pay it out like that, even thogh i requested it to neteller. (they only let you withdraw your balance mninus £10 for charges, incase you go over etc)
so there is definatly something behind this payment saga
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 18, 2008, 12:58 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Rob
I wonder did the OP check if the bonus was on the pending bonus bit of the account section in game?
And all that nonsense about breach of contract, the casino always has a rule similar to this one "14. Management decision is final. No discussion will be entered into.". If they decide they are going to charge you for depositing then withdrawing straight away that is their choice.
And hidden agenda, wtf are you talking about; its only dependant on what withdrawral services each casino supplies, and you know it changes from place to place. Most casinos let you deposit/withdraw ia the same method. And any evidence to prove that those who want to withdraw by bank wire are told they can't, and those that dont want that method are forced into it?
There are numerous complaints about casinos forcing unwanted withdrawal methods on players. The casino here is blaming EXTERNAL regulations, if it down to merely the whim of mana... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Rob at January 18, 2008, 12:40 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by inylweatherman
Irrelevant, the casino reneged on an advertised 50% bonus, and is therefore in breach of contract. Player should get 100% return of deposit, and if hair splitting is in order, an additional sum to compensate for the breach of contract. If the casino did indeed add the bonus, then their levels of customer service are ery poor indeed, otherwise the player would have been helped to find and play this seemingly missing bonus.
The statement about money laundering laws is bullshit, there is apparently no such thing, either for those casinos that blame such laws for requiring deposits to be returned to their origin, or for those few that just make it up as they go along, as in this case. If it were really down to "money laundering regulations", each and every casino, sportsbook, or poker room would have identical policies.
Many players would LIKE to be paid by bank wire, but funnily enough, THOSE players are told it can'... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 18, 2008, 12:33 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Irrelevant, the casino reneged on an advertised 50% bonus, and is therefore in breach of contract. Player should get 100% return of deposit, and if hair splitting is in order, an additional sum to compensate for the breach of contract. If the casino did indeed add the bonus, then their levels of customer service are ery poor indeed, otherwise the player would have been helped to find and play this seemingly missing bonus.
The statement about money laundering laws is bullshit, there is apparently no such thing, either for those casinos that blame such laws for requiring deposits to be returned to their origin, or for those few that just make it up as they go along, as in this case. If it were really down to "money laundering regulations", each and every casino, sportsbook, or poker room would have identical policies.
Many players would LIKE to be paid by bank wire, but funnily enough, THOSE players are told it can't be done, and they have to accept their money back to thei... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: winbig at January 18, 2008, 1:36 am | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster
You are better of playing your deposit once on blackjack, you are likely to lose less than 10% of your money.
Or if you wanted to split hairs with them, bet the table minimum on one hand of blackjack and try to cash out then.
They said "without wagering", but failed to say how much wagering is required. Any bet placed should cover it.
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| Posted by: GrandMaster at January 18, 2008, 12:24 am | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by mikehendi
You must withdraw with a bank wire transfer because of anti-money laundering policies
Interestingly, most casinos will insist on least the amount of your deposit to the source where it came from, supposedly also to prevent money laundering.
Quote: Originally Posted by mikehendi
If you deposit, and then withdraw again WITHOUT wagering, we will keep 10% of your deposit!
It does cost the casino money to process deposits and withdrawals. You are better of playing your deposit once on blackjack, you are likely to lose less than 10% of your money.
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| Posted by: mikehendi at January 17, 2008, 10:36 pm | | Topic: Interwetten - won't refund deposit Forum: Casino Meister |
Hello,
I recently deposited at Interwetten (using moneybookers), and after some trouble, they stated that I recieved the 50% signup bonus they offer in my account. But because I was unable to find the bonus in my account, I changed my mind about playing in their casino.
So, I forfeited the bonus, and tried to cash out using moneybookers again. Unfortunately, This wasn't possible! They state that my first cashout MUST proceed with a bank wire transfer, for "security reasons".
I've played at about 10 different online casino's, and at about 8 online pokerrooms, but I have never had any problems cashing out with the same way I deposited (always neteller or moneybookers).
I emailed support, and after a few mails, this was their final answer:
- You must withdraw with a bank wire transfer because of anti-money laundering policies
- If you deposit, and then withdraw again WITHOUT wagering, we will keep 10% of your deposit!
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