| Posted by: henryVIII at August 21, 2006, 11:38 am | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Unbelievable. Another casino caught with cheating software.
And just like English Harbour they seem ery reluctant to actually speak about the actual details of their supposed defence.
Sadly, it seems both English harbour and Mansion - even after being caught - still want to make a profit over the period (Mansion for the 3%-2% calculation and English harbour for the time they were most likely cheating before April).
BTW ... who are/were mansions auditors??
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| Posted by: thelawnet at August 17, 2006, 12:38 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster
Excellent points. I also find it hard to understand how it is possible that the discards were only recycled half of the time. The only explanation I have been able to come up with is that they must have hired English Harbour's programmers.
We also need to know whether there was a higher likelihood of the discards being recycled when it was more to the casino's advantage. If Mansion want to come clean, they need to publish their calculations.
You are quite right. It's easy to see how they could recycle cards *all* the time, just by using a new deck. But only part of the time? Very unlikely
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| Posted by: ternur at August 17, 2006, 1:32 am | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
In my case, yes. I posted a personal comment, about my situation. The whole situation had a marginal effect for me.
And no, I'm not on crack. Again, I don't share your passion for the issue.
Quote: Originally Posted by thelawnet
Fairly?
Are you on crack?
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| Posted by: GrandMaster at August 16, 2006, 10:12 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by jeremiahsjohnso
Regarding the odds, you may be jumping the gun a bit. Their explanation states "(t)he difference existed only in the Multi-Line ersions of Video Poker and meant that under certain circumstances discarded cards would be recycled in approximately half of the hands dealt."
So their claim, as I understand it, is that only sometimes was the recycling in effect -- I take it that they used the frequency to derive the additional 1.3% HA.
That's giving them the benefit of the doubt, of course -- it would be nice to know what 'certain circumstances' caused the recycled discards, and why it was 'approximately half' rather than exactly half, zero, or one.
(I trust/hope that Mansion isn't just noting that approximately half of the actual deals from June 6 to July 27 resulted in recycled discards reappearing, and using that to claim that only half of the deals were affected. That's a clear error.)
Excellen... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thelawnet at August 16, 2006, 9:40 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster
The situation is more complicated. 95.264% is the return from line pays assuming optimal strategy for bonus ideo poker is followed, but a player at Mansion would be the strategy for normal ideo poker, which would be different. I cannot be bothered to calculate it, but if Mansion publish their expert's calculations, I am willing to check it.
The strategy giving 95.264% is here ♠Bonus Video Poker by The Wizard of Odds
Because of the bonus, situations to watch out for are where there is a marginally better hand involving holding four cards, and a less good one holiding two cards - you might be encouraged to discard more cards.
Checking four to a flush/3 to a royal, the strategy with TQK, the lowest hand ranked above a 4 to a royal with two high cards is to hold the TQK. Checking with winpoker, this is indeed correct.
So there is no encouragement to hold 3 cards rather than 4 to get the bonus here -... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: jeremiahsjohnso at August 16, 2006, 9:12 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Regarding the odds, you may be jumping the gun a bit. Their explanation states "(t)he difference existed only in the Multi-Line ersions of Video Poker and meant that under certain circumstances discarded cards would be recycled in approximately half of the hands dealt."
So their claim, as I understand it, is that only sometimes was the recycling in effect -- I take it that they used the frequency to derive the additional 1.3% HA.
That's giving them the benefit of the doubt, of course -- it would be nice to know what 'certain circumstances' caused the recycled discards, and why it was 'approximately half' rather than exactly half, zero, or one.
(I trust/hope that Mansion isn't just noting that approximately half of the actual deals from June 6 to July 27 resulted in recycled discards reappearing, and using that to claim that only half of the deals were affected. That's a clear error.)
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| Posted by: GrandMaster at August 16, 2006, 8:37 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by thelawnet
And by the way, yes the 98.2534% and 95.2642% figures are correct.
If you look at their site, the paytable is normal 9/6 jacks or better, except that they pay 20 coins for a four of a kind, and 40 coins for a straight flush.
This is the same paytable as Cryptologic according to renowned gambling expert Michael Shackleford at ♠Cryptologic software review - The Wizard of Odds, and also confirmed by winpoker.
The broken game where discards came back is at ♠Bonus Video Poker by The Wizard of Odds except that that game gives a bonus when you draw the card you discarded
It is exactly the same paytable, and it says quite clearly that the return without the bonus is 95.264%.
The situation is more complicated. 95.264% is the return from line pays assuming optimal strategy for bonus ideo poker is followed, but a player at Mansion would be the strategy for normal ideo poker, which would... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thelawnet at August 16, 2006, 8:11 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
btw, for what it's worth, Mansion have the worst game of ideo poker I have ever seen
All American
RF 800 coins
SF 200 coins
4oak 30 coins
FH 8 coins
Flush 8 coins
Straight 4 coins
Three of a kind 3 coins
Two Pair 1 coin
JOB 1 coin
This pays back 92.08%
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| Posted by: thelawnet at August 16, 2006, 8:06 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by ternur
Got the same email myself. Never send them any enquiries about it. They handled it pretty fairly imo.
Fairly?
Are you on crack?
They advertised a 98.2534% payout game, but instead offered a 95.2642% game.
Fair enough, maybe a mistake.
But then they claim that
"The theoretical affect is calculated to be an additional
advantage to the house of no greater than 1.3% dependant upon player strategy. "
This is a load of crap. 98.2534 - 95.2642 = 2.9892%, or 3% near as damnit.
So they ripped people off for 3% of every dollar they wagered, but to make amends:
"we have deposited into their MANSION account a Casino Bonus payment equal to two percent (2%) of their handle on Multi-line Video Poker during the period in question. "
And as BONUS payment, that you have to wager, rather than withdrawable cash?
What kind of bonus... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: deucebag at August 16, 2006, 7:19 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by ternur
I played it through once. After that it was fully cashable.
What a joke. I got $1k back, they're forcing me to wager another thou to make it cashable?!
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| Posted by: RaiseThese at August 16, 2006, 7:11 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Just got my email.
The settlement was made as I was hoping for and truly did expect from them(Although it took awhile)
Turnur's post seems to indicate that they may have refunded all players involved and not just those who complained. Not confirmed in whole, just going by what he said.
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| Posted by: ternur at August 16, 2006, 6:53 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
I played it through once. After that it was fully cashable.
Quote: Originally Posted by deucebag
Got it too, but the money has been added as playable bonus, with 0 playthrough requirements. How do I make this cashable? I hope they're not going to make me wager it?
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| Posted by: homerj at August 16, 2006, 4:53 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
The theoretical affect is calculated to be an additional
advantage to the house of no greater than 1.3% dependant upon player strategy.
do we agree with this figure of 1.3% ? i seem to recall someone quoting it was more than 2%...
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| Posted by: brutaldeluxe at August 16, 2006, 4:49 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Yes just got this e mail myself. Took them long enough but at least they have done the proper thing in the end and sorted it fairly, well done Mansion(at last). Again props go to this site otherwise I would never have known about it.
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| Posted by: deucebag at August 16, 2006, 4:46 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Got it too, but the money has been added as playable bonus, with 0 playthrough requirements. How do I make this cashable? I hope they're not going to make me wager it?
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| Posted by: ternur at August 16, 2006, 4:30 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Got the same email myself. Never send them any enquiries about it. They handled it pretty fairly imo.
Quote: Originally Posted by squeakalot
e-mail just received:
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| Posted by: squeakalot at August 16, 2006, 3:38 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
e-mail just received:
Quote: Originally Posted by Mansion
Dear Member,
After receiving enquiries from a small number of members, we have investigated and determined that ersions
of Multi-Line Video Poker games have operated differently from the published rules since 6 June, 2006.
The difference existed only in the Multi-Line ersions of Video Poker and meant that under certain circumstances
discarded cards would be recycled in approximately half of the hands dealt. The cause of the error was diagnosed
and repairs made on MANSION Casino on 27 July 2006. The theoretical affect is calculated to be an additional
advantage to the house of no greater than 1.3% dependant upon player strategy.
Since correcting the game to ensure it plays according to the published rules, we have taken the time of
ascertaining a full list of members affected. For those members, we have deposited into their MANSION account
a Casino Bonus pay... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: RaiseThese at August 16, 2006, 11:46 am | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Hello everyone, My name is Edward.
I have been gambling online through sportsbook for over 10 years. Although I just started playing online casinos recently, I am ery familiar with the online scene as a whole
I have been reading this site for about 6 months and have signed up with 13 of the accredited sites. (Didnt realize it was that many till I just counted them up) Did Mansion through someone else.
Although I read stuff on this site at least 5 days a week, Ive never posted because it has been pretty smooth sailing so far. Not necessarily gambling wise but at least BS wise. No one has jerked me around yet.
(I have had one problem that is a current situation with Purple Lounge. I will give them a couple more days to resolve before I post about it. But if not resolved there could be some serious issues with either Microgaming or Prima regarding the tallying of wagers.)
Now Im in the same boat as alot of people with Mansion. In completing the bonus requiremen... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: brutaldeluxe at August 12, 2006, 2:25 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
I wish ! Looks like many of us are being ignored. Having had the "you won on VP so it doesn't matter if we were cheating" reply and then expressing my annoyance them saying "thanks for that feedback, we'll pass that on" , since then I have heard nothing from them ia email and they haven't made a reappearance in this thread. Wouldn't hold my breath like.
Of course when players cheat the casinos deal with it in about 0.000001 seconds.
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| Posted by: deucebag at August 12, 2006, 1:11 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Lifesticks
I played heavily on the affected game and have yet to receive an answer from Mansion regarding this issue, after 10 days and two reminders. Has everyone here been sorted out?
I got a quick reply that my complaint had been forwarded to some department, but no word since then.
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| Posted by: Lifesticks at August 12, 2006, 12:31 am | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
I played heavily on the affected game and have yet to receive an answer from Mansion regarding this issue, after 10 days and two reminders. Has everyone here been sorted out?
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| Posted by: spearmaster at August 9, 2006, 7:22 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by thelawnet
Having sold out to the ironically named Altria group (ex Phillip Morris) he bought Mansion.
Minor correction - he started Mansion up a little more than a year before the tobacco company was sold to Altria.
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| Posted by: joeyboyuk at August 9, 2006, 3:38 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
So, has the ideo poker problem been completely fixed? I have money in a poker account at mansion and quite enjoy playing ideo poker jacks or better.I dont really want to play if it still has a crappy payout tho!!
Does anyopne know what the payout is for multihand jacks or better?
I was wondering also if anyone had any problems with the doubling wins on VP, does this seem like it cheats too? Will doubling count towards clearing bonuses?
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| Posted by: thelawnet at August 8, 2006, 5:11 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by soflat
Yep it is real easy to pay people when you are ripping some off.
It's a good progression for the owner, Putera Sampoerna. Until a year ago he owned Indonesia's largest cigarette company, which specialises in ultra-high-tar and nicotine cigarettes with typically 3mg of nicotine and 34mg of tar per stick. He also set up the Sampoerna educational foundation, which was basically a means of getting the Sampoerna cigarette brand in front of kids. Having sold out to the ironically named Altria group (ex Phillip Morris) he bought Mansion. It seems a short step from cancer sticks to short pay gambling.
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| Posted by: soflat at August 8, 2006, 4:44 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by thelawnet
but presumably not as good as mansion are feeling having conned their p players out of 3% of every $ they wagered
Yep it is real easy to pay people when you are ripping some off.
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| Posted by: thelawnet at August 8, 2006, 4:35 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by BBKPoker
and now some positive feedback.
They apologized regarding the situation. Once I cashed out, it took 12 hours to hit my ewallet which I was pleasantly surprised by.
I'm feeling better re: this casino.
but presumably not as good as mansion are feeling having conned their p players out of 3% of every $ they wagered
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| Posted by: BBKPoker at August 8, 2006, 9:42 am | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
and now some positive feedback.
They apologized regarding the situation. Once I cashed out, it took 12 hours to hit my ewallet which I was pleasantly surprised by.
I'm feeling better re: this casino.
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| Posted by: BBKPoker at August 6, 2006, 10:12 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
15 hours later I sent them an email asking them where my bonus was.
3 hours after that it was credited.
Now I've wagered it once, and sent in my license. I'm cashing out of this site permanently once they email to tell me they've accepted it.
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| Posted by: BBKPoker at August 6, 2006, 3:16 am | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
One of these days, I'll learn from all the hassles I've had with casinos and stop and read the CM threads about them before depositing.
My issue is that I had to request the bonus after signing up and depositing ($1,000 and after the terms had changed so the 10x with table games counting 50% I knew about already). Then, after meeting the playthrough, I did not receive my bonus and requested it. I was told it would be credited within an hour, then I was told a shift manager had to approve it due to the amount, and it would be another hour.
Well, 3 hours later, nothing.
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| Posted by: pangloss at August 5, 2006, 1:18 am | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by spearmaster
Pangloss, I forgot to welcome you to Casinomeister on your first post Welcome!
.
Thank you spear - agree with everything you say about Mansion Casino.
...
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at August 4, 2006, 11:15 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
The industry is not doing itself any favours over this. There have been numerous allegations by players who have had terrible runs and post that "the ****** game at **** is clearly rigged". These have been hard to prove, and the majority opinion is that it was just a run of bad luck and the games in gereral are fair. Operators have replied by saying how robust their software is, how well their RNG has been designed and tested to produce fair results.
Now, the conspiracy theorists have caught not one, but TWO casinos out cheating! In both instances, it was NOTHING to do with the fairness of the RNG, it was all to do with how the software converts that random number into a set of cards, dice, or reels for the game the player is playing.
The can of worms is now well and truly open. Many are feeling that online Blackjack simply does not "feel right" on occasion, and I am one of them, having said that sometimes I can play seemingly forever and all the luck is bad with no spells ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: spearmaster at August 4, 2006, 8:44 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by soflat
Since there was no audit, English Harbor never identified the time periods conclusively.
There was an audit - which identified that the problem occurred in April. All affected bets were refunded plus 20%.
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| Posted by: soflat at August 4, 2006, 8:30 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Since there was no audit, English Harbor never identified the time periods conclusively.
We can assume Mansion's p was bad from the start.
Which is worse? I don't know but they are both terrible.
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| Posted by: spearmaster at August 4, 2006, 8:25 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by soflat
Actually I believe you are alone in this way of thinking about the English Harbor ideo poker fiasco and the impportance of doing a full audit.
The Wizard of Odds put a statement on his website stating that earlier logs should and would be looked at.
And Casino Meister posted the following: "Their gaming jurisdiction should have been contacted immediately and a full audit should have commenced. This never happened to my knowledge,"
Let me make this a bit more clear.
EH identified the period in question and automatically reviewed all play and paid refunds plus 20%.
Mansion has not identified any period during which the recycled cards were in use, and are asking you to request an audit into your records.
Tell me, who is the bigger culprit here? Am I the only one that thinks this way?
I don't think so, not by a long shot.
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| Posted by: soflat at August 4, 2006, 7:32 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by spearmaster
EH clearly identified the scope of the problem and identified the period in which the error affected accounts. They reviewed all play during that period and made compensation plus 20%.
Any period before that was NOT affected and no proof whatsoever of any irregularities during that time was given. Do not allow yourself to be swayed by cries of "Wolf!" so easily.
Actually I believe you are alone in this way of thinking about the English Harbor ideo poker fiasco and the impportance of doing a full audit.
The Wizard of Odds put a statement on his website stating that earlier logs should and would be looked at.
And Casino Meister posted the following: "Their gaming jurisdiction should have been contacted immediately and a full audit should have commenced. This never happened to my knowledge,"
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| Posted by: spearmaster at August 4, 2006, 4:55 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by pangloss
EH pointedly refused to check (and/or disclose) their logs beyond a teeney weeney time frame. To do so would have erified claims by kengam et al that their games had been cooked for God knows how long. Thus they escaped paying proper and due compensation to those affected by limiting the scope of enquiry.
Enter Mansion Casino - first they invoke the EH defence of bumbling software technicians. Second they limit paying compensation by pretending only players who actually complain and then actually suffer a bank roll loss are worthy of compensation.
The modus operandi sounds all too familiar to me Spear.
...
Pangloss, I forgot to welcome you to Casinomeister on your first post Welcome!
EH clearly identified the scope of the problem and identified the period in which the error affected accounts. They reviewed all play during that period and made compensation plus 20%.
Any period befor... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: pangloss at August 4, 2006, 4:32 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by spearmaster
This is NOT the EH defence - if you recall, they checked their own logs and paid everyone affected with 20% additional compensation.
What Mansion is doing here is far, far worse - simply inexcusable.
EH pointedly refused to check (and/or disclose) their logs beyond a teeney weeney time frame. To do so would have erified claims by kengam et al that their games had been cooked for God knows how long. Thus they escaped paying proper and due compensation to those affected by limiting the scope of enquiry.
Enter Mansion Casino - first they invoke the EH defence of bumbling software technicians. Second they limit paying compensation by pretending only players who actually complain and then actually suffer a bank roll loss are worthy of compensation.
The modus operandi sounds all too familiar to me Spear.
...
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| Posted by: 2BigDogs at August 4, 2006, 3:10 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
For what it might be worth to all of you. I emailed customer service and complained about the ideo poker issue. The first response was from customer service telling me they forwarded the issue to thier ideo poker department. Now I have recieved this:
______________________________
Further to our recent email regarding Video Poker.
We have been in touch with our Casino Department and we are pleased to confirm the technical difficulties you were experiencing on our Video Poker game are now fixed.
MANSION apologies for any inconvenience this may of caused we would also like to point out were currently reviewing your account to see if you are entitled to a refund.
If you have any further queries or require any assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Kindest regards,
Dan
__________________________________________________
_
No idea how this is going to turn out, but I ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: brutaldeluxe at August 4, 2006, 2:56 pm | | Topic: Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino Forum: Casino Meister |
I'd like to say I am surprised by the reply from mansion but I'm not. This has become standard for so many casinos. Oh we were cheating but hey we are gonna get away with it cos we can, superb.
Of course say a player had some sort of cheating device which took 4% off the house edge and turned it into a winning game for him.
If upon being caught he used the defence hey I lost £300 anyway so what's the problem, would that be ok then I wonder ?
Of course it wouldn't. Yet somehow it's ok for the casino to do it to the players.
Mansion won't be getting another penny from me and I'll be urging everyone else to follow suit.
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