| Posted by: casperfix at September 10, 2006, 10:25 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Just to let everybody know, I took the screenshots only after the casino denied my winnings saying it was written at the terms you can't play the game at all not before that.
What is wrong with that ? This is the first time I have ever took a screenshot from any casino in the world, what should I do at that case ? Does it mean that I am a fraudster or suspected to be a fraudster or proffesional by taking a screenshot AFTER the casino tells you lies like that.
They lied in the email they sent and even left the term as it was so I copied it.
I can see this is not the first and last lie from them.
From reading Kreome original post I can see they accused him in having multiple accounts which turned to be not true.
They lie and lie and from some reason the casinomeister decided the favor of the casino.
I really don't understand, they confiscated about 13,000 US from two players and everyone continue to work with them, bsuiness as usual, just a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: kreome at September 2, 2006, 9:25 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
same time same terms.
This is the whole case about, came two players and won a lot using the Roulette as a tool to build a balance due to a sticky bonus.
The casino did not like it, but it was not mentioned at the terms that it is not allowed to play Roulette.
Bryan Bailey thoughts that it is a good exmaple of how the casino should treat those kind of players, to protect themselve from losses.
I say, If Bryan is not going to help no one can help, soi just pay the winnings derived from the Roulette that is not connected to the bonus.
By the way, Royal dice were more than happy to take $600, do you think I chargebacked them to protect myself, well no!!!
I think they should pay the winnings derived from the deposit.
We have to remember that in both cases there was a deposit involvded and all terms were met except the stupid term of defend themselves from losses or whatever they name it.
After all depsoit were made, I am... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: chuchu59 at September 2, 2006, 1:57 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by kreome
I played Roulette and only then the allowed games
But, don't forget they have to pay the full amount and this is just an offer
for resolution. So just take out the amount won at the roulette derived from the bonus and pay the rest
Similar to the King Neptune's case. When you played, did the Ts and Cs specifically state that roulette was disallowed or was it just like Casperfix's case where it stated that this game did not count towards WRs.
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| Posted by: oblomov at September 2, 2006, 1:51 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by kreome
I played Roulette and only then the allowed games
But, don't forget they have to pay the full amount and this is just an offer
for resolution. So just take out the amount won at the roulette derived from the bonus and pay the rest
That would be a fair resolution to all these oid winnings/bonus problems.
But it would of course defeat the point of the "lose/break even" scam....I cant see them agreeing to it unless put under pressure by the leading webmasters.
Good luck in any case to all seeking recovery of stolen winnings.
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| Posted by: kreome at September 2, 2006, 11:13 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
I played Roulette and only then the allowed games
But, don't forget they have to pay the full amount and this is just an offer
for resolution. So just take out the amount won at the roulette derived from the bonus and pay the rest
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| Posted by: winbig at September 1, 2006, 5:06 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by kreome
It is ery easy
You take the amount of the bonus which was 200 and multiple it by 9 which is the amount won at the roulette table from the bonus
You substract that amount from the total cashout.
The rest of the balance was won from the deposit winnings in the roulette.
But was Roulette the last game you played?
If not, the way they're looking at it is you may have never won the amount you did without building your BR from Roulette.
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| Posted by: kreome at September 1, 2006, 1:42 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
It is ery easy
You take the amount of the bonus which was 200 and multiple it by 9 which is the amount won at the roulette table from the bonus
You substract that amount from the total cashout.
The rest of the balance was won from the deposit winnings in the roulette.
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| Posted by: kreome at September 1, 2006, 10:26 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
I refrained from responding to date.
Although I am a side in it as well, I thought about a resolution and offered to the Casinomeister, he the casino won't agree and they don't want any business.
I offered to be paid only the winnings derived from the deposit amount which means they will substract from the cashout the winnings derived from the signup bonus in the Roulette bet.
I think this is the minimum the casino has to do, there was a deposit here and winnings from the deposit, why not paying it ? take all the winnings drived from the bonus back.
I am not happy with it but I can accept it considering the fact Bryan is not supporting our claim.
Bryan told me the casino does not want any business with me.
Well, they were more than happy to have business with me in Royaldice.
I lost $600 making the same signup bonus and they were glad to take the deposits there, they never returned them.
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| Posted by: casperfix at August 24, 2006, 2:01 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
I am taking back the words about blacklisting, I already mentioned that before.
I also explained that after more than a year that I am fighting on the money, everything has just exploded.
I have sent 41 emails during the past year trying to solve it quitely without the forums
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| Posted by: SlotsWizard at August 24, 2006, 12:14 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by casperfix
Thirs, the Roulette bet was not on a single number but on 3,4 numbers(I don't remember) so the chances are about 1/12 or 1/9 and catch it twice the chances are not so low.
The chances that we are talking about cheating the Roulette system ... is ery low.
I understand and agree with the above.
Quote: Originally Posted by casperfix
Nothing is too fishy, this is a regular situation but when you don't like the fact that the player win too much, then the problem starts.
Why can't you understand that it was a simple deal between me and the casino. I signed up and accepted the terms that said that Roulette won't count towards the wagering, I won, then they came with a statement that was mentioned only in the Automated email they send after the deposit that Roulette was not allowed to play at all.
I hate to see players get screwed as much as the next guy, but my intuition keeps telling me ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: casperfix at August 24, 2006, 8:28 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
SlotsJunkie, don't forget this issue is not only mine but another player from Germany.
The chances that we are talking about cheating the Roulette system or faking the screenshot is ery low.
Also these screenshot were sent to the casino as well and they never denied them or claimed they are faked. These screenshots were sent also to playtech.
Thirs, the Roulette bet was not on a single number but on 3,4 numbers(I don't remember) so the chances are about 1/12 or 1/9 and catch it twice the chances are not so low.
Nothing is too fishy, this is a regular situation but when you don't like the fact that the player win too much, then the problem starts.
Sometimes the casino will claim that you breaked the terms, sometimes they will claimed that you opened multiple accounts, sometimes you used a Robot.
Why can't you understand that it was a simple deal between me and the casino. I signed up and accepted the terms that said that Roulette won... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: SlotsWizard at August 24, 2006, 4:10 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by chuchu59
Howcha doing as a webmaster?
Okay, I suppose... it's a lot of hard work, and the only traffic I get is from Googlebot, Yahoobot, and the occasional affiliate manager. But I fully expect it to be that way for at least a year. I'm not even sure if there is anyone left who doesn't have an account at every online gambling site already anyway. Let's just say that it's a good thing I haven't quit my day job.
Quote: Originally Posted by chuchu59
From this player's style of betting, he will not be willing to contact live chat because the answer he will get is either to have the bonus removed before play or that winnings are oided if roulette is played. Since he didnt ask, if the terms and conditions were really altered after he deposited, he has a legitimate claim to his winnings and I think we are all agreed on this. Much as I sympathise with any player who are unable to get his rightful winnings, he has not convinced ev... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: chuchu59 at August 24, 2006, 3:40 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by SlotsJunkie
I have to side with Bryan on this one. There are too many things that are just plain fishy:
1. The screenshot of the T&C with the Date/Time window. Easily faked, and who does that? Who opens up the Date/Time window when taking a screenshot? Furthermore, this screenshot only appeared AFTER the player was asked if they had anything proving the date. It's the equivalent of changing the date and time on a camcorder and then ideotaping some "evidence", but in reality that date and time are meaningless because they can be easily manipulated.
2. This player staked their entire initial balance on a single number in Roulette...and won?! Assuming player-friendly European Roulette, the odds of this happening are 1 in 37 at each casino, or 1 in 1,369 combined (0.073%). How someone can escape a 97.297% chance of losing their entire deposit in one shot, twice in a row, is far beyond the scope of my own personal experiences wit... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: SlotsWizard at August 24, 2006, 1:08 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
I have to side with Bryan on this one. There are too many things that are just plain fishy:
1. The screenshot of the T&C with the Date/Time window. Easily faked, and who does that? Who opens up the Date/Time window when taking a screenshot? Furthermore, this screenshot only appeared AFTER the player was asked if they had anything proving the date. It's the equivalent of changing the date and time on a camcorder and then ideotaping some "evidence", but in reality that date and time are meaningless because they can be easily manipulated.
2. This player staked their entire initial balance on a single number in Roulette...and won?! Assuming player-friendly European Roulette, the odds of this happening are 1 in 37 at each casino, or 1 in 1,369 combined (0.073%). How someone can escape a 97.297% chance of losing their entire deposit in one shot, twice in a row, is far beyond the scope of my own personal experiences with even the best of luck. Obviously it can happen, but wi... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thelawnet at August 23, 2006, 8:39 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
No, I am neither siding with the player or the casino on this. That's my prerogative. Like Henry VIII's, anology - it's like watching two drunks in the street fighting.
The player DID break the terms and conditions - am I the only one reading this??
Bets placed on all ersions of Baccarat, all ersions of Roulette, all ersions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all ersions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Casino War, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.
Simple question: do you think that you can put some of the terms on the website and others in an email sent after signup?
If not, then the player didn't break the terms, as term wasn't on the website, only in the email sent after he... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: casperfix at August 23, 2006, 9:22 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Casinomeister, you said
The player DID break the terms and conditions - am I the only one reading this??
Bets placed on all ersions of Baccarat, all ersions of Roulette, all ersions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all ersions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Casino War, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.
THESE WERE NOT THE TERMS, THEY ARE LYING.
I SHOWED SCREENSHOTS THAT YOU CAN SEE CLEARLY THAT THEY DID NOT STATE THE WE RESERVE THE RIGHT SENTENCE.
They sent it by an email after I deposited, it looks like an AUTOMATED email that being sent with the terms, they fucked up by not putting it in the term at the website.
If I had seen such a term, I would have not played, I had missed such a term, I would not... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Rettahs at August 23, 2006, 8:56 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
The player DID break the terms and conditions - am I the only one reading this??
Bets placed on all ersions of Baccarat, all ersions of Roulette, all ersions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all ersions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Casino War, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.
Casinomeister, I believe you are making a reference to an example he posted about Del Rio casino. I do not see that in any of the screenshots he has shown of the terms and conditions for the two casino's he played at and that are in question with his winnings.
Because you have dealt with so many disputes I can understand your desire to pick and choose which to fight for and which not to. I fully respect that since ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Vesuvio at August 23, 2006, 8:49 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
The player DID break the terms and conditions - am I the only one reading this??
Bets placed on all ersions of Baccarat, all ersions of Roulette, all ersions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all ersions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Casino War, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.
I'd accept the casino's actions if that was in the terms and conditions, but as I understand it that was something they added in an e-mail sent after he'd received the bonus. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly never go to check my mail after receiving a bonus and before playing it.
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| Posted by: Casinomeister at August 23, 2006, 8:08 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by thechap
1/ You are not going to side with the player. .
No, I am neither siding with the player or the casino on this. That's my prerogative. Like Henry VIII's, anology - it's like watching two drunks in the street fighting.
Quote: Originally Posted by thechap
2/ You recognise the player has won without breaking a term and condition, but also refuse to support him because you recognise that his play is that of an advantage player. .
The player DID break the terms and conditions - am I the only one reading this??
Bets placed on all ersions of Baccarat, all ersions of Roulette, all ersions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all ersions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Casino War, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: chuchu59 at August 23, 2006, 3:53 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
Just one more thing, imagine signing up at a casino you felt might be dodgy (why make the screen shots then). You get the bonus - and it clearly says roulette does not count towards the WR.
For those of you that are being so quick in slamming me, answer me this.
Yes or no: would you have played roulette?
Yes or no: would you have contacted the casino before playing roulette?
Although I wouldnt have played roulette, I would surely have played baccarat although they dont count towards the WRs. If it's a 100% match deposit you have doubled your bankroll. Say, I deposit $100 and get an extra $100. I push my luck and bet $200 and if I am lucky $400 on the next game. I could get to $800 with only 2 even bets starting from $100. Where else would you get this advantage. With the $800, I can easily finish off the WRs and if my balance is above $400, this risk is worth taking because if you did not get a bonus your $100... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thechap at August 23, 2006, 1:49 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Vesuvio
Yes. If you don't do that the terms are meaningless - the casino can refuse to pay you on a whim. As I've said before, eCOGRA or any organisation claiming to regulate the industry should refuse to accept any casinos that have a similar term. Then they can arbitrate fairly on the basis of the remaining terms. Otherwise it's an absurdity.
I 100% agree with this statement. As I tried to say before with the patent comparison, if a casino wants to write rules prohibiting certain gameplay they can bloody well pay someone to write this rules properly. In any case where there is dispute and the independent adjucator (casino meister/ ecogra etc) rules that there is a significant chance the rules may be interperated the way the player claims to have interperated them then they should rule against the casino.
It's the casinos own fault if they can't write clear rules, punish them for it. There was a recent case with uk pensions where leaflets... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thechap at August 23, 2006, 1:19 am | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
You are not reading my comments closely enough.
Im not sure which bit i've missed after rereading. Below is what I have interperated your comment as, but please correct me
1/ You are not going to side with the player.
2/ You recognise the player has won without breaking a term and condition, but also refuse to support him because you recognise that his play is that of an advantage player.
3/ You have stated that the FU condition has been used, but have in no point condemned them for thier use of this term.
I'm sorry if I've misunderstood your stance, but from my interpretation of your posts can't see where the points to the contrary are.
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| Posted by: Vesuvio at August 22, 2006, 11:07 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by mitch
It's the way his approach harms other players that bothers me. Especially when he subsequently comes to a forum like this seeking sympathy.
He's trying to get the money he's got a strong case for being owed, as far as I can see, not any TLC. I really don't get your point about harming other players. You mainly play BJ, as far as I know, and more casinos have banned that than any other game, but I'm not holding you personally responsible
What would the casino do to avoid the roulette approach? Presumably completely ban it before meeting the wr. Assuming they didn't try to trick players and made it clear then how would that affect other "legitimate" players? It'd save them money. Unless you've got a good strategy playing games not counting to the wr is the absolute worst thing you can do with a bonus.
Quote: Originally Posted by mitch
As an example, KK is a bonus hunter, he makes a profit but how many times ha... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: derelict at August 22, 2006, 10:57 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Macgyver
Since this thread is so long, can we clarify what rule #5 is?
I believe the rule five he's referring to is this one from this page:
Quote:
The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player's original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on the above games, before the wagering on allowed games is completed fully.
The player says this rule was added after his deposit. The wayback machine is down at the moment, but I expect that it may be erifyible. In my opinion, the term that states that the prohibited games do not count toward the wagering requirements is fairly clear that the games are permitted, but do not contribute to the wagering requirements. I really don't know whether the email notification is sufficient notice, given the contradictory terms on the web site.
In my opinion, if the promotions page can be erified, he ought to be paid.
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| Posted by: mitch at August 22, 2006, 10:31 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Vesuvio
What are your recommendations for playing sticky bonuses then, Mitch? I'm asking you as a self-confessed bonus hunter, or abuser to use the terminology you seem to accept. It's no different if you slightly disguise your play and play at higher stakes than others - you still cost the casinos money. Scam them, if you like. I hate the hypocrisy of your criticism.
.
I approve of bonus hunting as you know and have recommended this approach to posters many times.
I am not bothered about Casperfix's approach harming the casinos they are often awash with money and could hardly be described as providing a useful service to society.
It's the way his approach harms other players that bothers me. Especially when he subsequently comes to a forum like this seeking sympathy.
I am not saying that Casperfix is not technically entitled to his money but that as a sa y player he knew he was walking a tightrope when he was aw... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Rettahs at August 22, 2006, 9:19 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Being new to the online casino scene and message boards I find this situation to be ery interesting. I have read a lot of threads on Bonus Issues and Casino Issues here in these forums and to me I find it all pretty amazing :-).
Before I found this forum and was just searching out online casinos to play at I stumbled across many websites including this one that recommend several different casino's and point out the great sign up bonus at each one. Before I read any of the threads I tried out a few casinos, won a bit and lost a bit and had fun either way. Then I started reading the forums and after reading the threads on bonus issues and casino issues I would have to say that I fall into the catagory of a "Bonus abuser" even though I had no idea what that was before I read these threads.
I say I am a bonus abuser because it seems that is the label that gets put on anyone that signs up for more than a few casino's and takes them up on their signup bonus and makes money off ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: casperfix at August 22, 2006, 9:15 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
From reading what the Casinomeister wrote I have to say that I think that
Bryan Bailey sold his soul to the devil.
Almost every affiliate in the industry that I managed to read his opinion in the past few month won't support these reserve the right terms.
These reserve the right terms are there to scare players but not to be enforced.
A casino that write these rules and also enforce them is rogued.
Why the casinos are the devil ? Because they make their money from poor miserable people, addicted people, weak people.
They are like the cigarette companies.
They will destroy the competitive person as well, people who are successful in everyday life that can't understand how come they can't beat the casino.
These casinos has license to steal anyway, they should atleast honor their own terms and condition.
I don't know anyone from Germany that all I can say.
I came to win, my way, and my ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Macgyver at August 22, 2006, 9:13 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Since this thread is so long, can we clarify what rule #5 is?
If it's the statement that the player must contact the casino to remove the bonus if they wish to play an excluded game, then we just need to establish that this rule was in place on the website on the day the player deposited.
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| Posted by: Vesuvio at August 22, 2006, 9:00 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
So what am I expected to do? Rule in favor of players who knew that they were breaking one of the terms and conditions? Should we be selective and disregard #5?
Yes. If you don't do that the terms are meaningless - the casino can refuse to pay you on a whim. As I've said before, eCOGRA or any organisation claiming to regulate the industry should refuse to accept any casinos that have a similar term. Then they can arbitrate fairly on the basis of the remaining terms. Otherwise it's an absurdity.
Quote: Originally Posted by mitch
Exactly. This situation illustrates intent to scam. If the players had made an honest mistake, I would have challenged it.
Since when is it a scam to try and win with a bonus? The casino set up the rules, not the player. Of course with bonuses casinos are always relying on the majority of players not thinking, but you can't throw a fit if people don't do what you want. Taking depos... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Vesuvio at August 22, 2006, 8:37 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by mitch
Lets be honest, players like Casperfix have harmed the general gaming community over time with their gross, obvious and greedy play. Not being content to play with a reasonable advantage they have to come up with the most extravagant techniques to get every last penny from the casinos.
What are your recommendations for playing sticky bonuses then, Mitch? The player should just potter along at small stakes and hold on to a bonus he can't withdraw? I'm asking you as a self-confessed bonus hunter, or abuser to use the terminology you seem to accept. It's no different if you slightly disguise your play and play at higher stakes than others - you still cost the casinos money. Scam them, if you like. I hate the hypocrisy of your criticism.
Quote: Originally Posted by mitch
Casinos respond with reduced offers and complicated terms that hit and confuse the ordinary punter. Doesn't affect players like Casperfix as they are ery sa y... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Casinomeister at August 22, 2006, 7:59 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by thechap
I find it quite sickened that you refuse to condemn this casino casinomeister. If no terms (bar the FU) term have been broken this guy should be paid - it's as simple as that...
You are not reading my comments closely enough.
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| Posted by: Casinomeister at August 22, 2006, 7:57 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by henryVIII
In principle, they are wrong but (rather like seeing two drunks fighting in the street) I couldnt care who ends up the winner. Just the principles we agree are fair is the real issue.
I like that analogy - two drunks fighting in the street.
If this player made the mistake of playing the wrong game, thinking that it was ok to play roulette and it simply wouldn't count towards the wagering requirements, I would argue for the player. Hell, I've done that before on a number of occassions. But this was no mistake. The player made one single bet, won, and moved on. And she did the same at the other casino. And her friend (friend: an educated guess on my part) does the exact same thing. So it's pretty clear there was no mistake - the game was intentionally played. If this was player error, it would be relatively easy to have the casino deal with this in a manner that would make these players happy.
The "escape clause&quo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thechap at August 22, 2006, 7:53 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
I find it quite sickened that you refuse to condemn this casino casinomeister. If no terms (bar the FU) term have been broken this guy should be paid - it's as simple as that.
So what if he used a winning strategy, I bet you every single player on your forum trieds to use winning strategies. Infact I guarentee it, who would play to lose money, it's totally idiotic to think they would.
Ok granted some peoples strategies are cunning and well worked out, playing the games with the lowest edge to try and gain a calculated statistic edge, others play bad strategies like martingale, sweeper systems, changing tables, waiting until an outcome has happened 5 times in a row, only playing when they're feeling lucky.
So some people have clever systems and some don't, your stance to allow casinos to only punish the susceptible kind of reminds me of con men that only bother dealing ripping off old ladies. Their attitude is why bother dealing with some wiley guy who knows his house isn... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mitch at August 22, 2006, 7:21 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Ah..., legalities, technicalities, principles, morality etc.
How do you weave all this together in this tale.
Casperfix is probably technically correct assuming he is telling the truth about the T&Cs on the website.
However, the casino would probably claim they are legally correct due to the self same catch-all T&C also on the website and applied to a situation many people would consider to be abusive from a morality point of iew.
Casinos aren't the only business's to have catch-all get out clauses such as 'we accept no liability' etc.They can be challenged however on reasonableness grounds depending on the situation.
Lets be honest, players like Casperfix have harmed the general gaming community over time with their gross, obvious and greedy play. Not being content to play with a reasonable advantage they have to come up with the most extravagant techniques to get every last penny from the casinos.
Casinos respond with reduced of... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: henryVIII at August 22, 2006, 3:44 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
Just one more thing, imagine signing up at a casino you felt might be dodgy (why make the screen shots then). You get the bonus - and it clearly says roulette does not count towards the WR.
For those of you that are being so quick in slamming me, answer me this.
Yes or no: would you have played roulette?
Yes or no: would you have contacted the casino before playing roulette?
Personally, i dont play that tactic. I dont like stickies and never had so i have never hasd this choice.
However, if I did, then yes i would have to say (if I chose) i would play roulette and I would expect to be paid.
The reason for this decision would be that both both parties had agreed to this being acceptable.
And therefore, as gambling is essentially a battle of probabilities, I would factor this into my play.
That said, I apologise if you think i have been slamming you. Im not ... actuall... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Vesuvio at August 22, 2006, 3:41 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
Just one more thing, imagine signing up at a casino you felt might be dodgy (why make the screen shots then). You get the bonus - and it clearly says roulette does not count towards the WR.
For those of you that are being so quick in slamming me, answer me this.
Yes or no: would you have played roulette?
If I thought that was the best game to play, then yes. In practice, no, as I wouldn't want that much ariance.
Quote: Originally Posted by Casinomeister
Yes or no: would you have contacted the casino before playing roulette?
I'd never contact an on-line casino to ask about games to play. I take their terms and conditions as laying down the law - and I'll take the risk of having to go to some form of arbitration to enforce those terms.
I still think you're confusing two things here. As an arbitrator you should only be interested in whether the players met the terms and conditions ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: winbig at August 22, 2006, 3:37 pm | | Topic: Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000 Forum: Casino Meister |
I think they were planning on invoking the FU clause to *anyone* that played a game (and profited) in the "Doesn't count towards WR" list. That way they can automatically sieze funds by saying their play was suspicious and/or abusive.
In answer to your question, no, I wouldn't have emailed the casino. Why would there be a reason to? It wasn't listed in the excluded games at the time he played, per his screenshot.
Edit: They allowed the game to be played with a bonus, so they should accept it, plain and simple. If they didn't want people to be playing roulette, it should have been in the terms on the website at the time he deposited and played. Whatever terms are on the website should be adhered to. Emails get lost, go unread, get filtered to the spam folder or caught in a filter and automatically deleted, etc; so even if there was one sent with different terms, I don't see how they can be enforced.
Edit: Above all, how can a player be responsible for them changing th... | | Read Entire Entry |
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