| Posted by: chuchu59 at December 13, 2007, 10:39 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
You are wrong Nifty
JOB is Video Poker and so is Video Poker Double so they should be one and the same.
Blackjack also shares the Jack with JOB and they are similar as well.
In Roulette you can bet on Black so Blackjack is a ersion of Roulette.
Craps and Sic Bo are the same as both use dice to determine the outcome.
Any more? These guys are really ridiculous.
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| Posted by: Nifty29 at December 13, 2007, 10:19 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Sorry to bring up an old post, but it worries me that the casino states:
Quote:
Upon reviewing your account, you often placed bets on Jacks or Better, kindly
note that Jacks or Better is a ersion of Video poker double.
How is JOB itself a ersion of ideo poker double??....I mean, if you dont double then its just ideo poker
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| Posted by: thechap at August 6, 2007, 10:56 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Cyprus, you should keep a screenshot for terms. FWIW I've always found carnival fair.
To do this hold "Ctrl" "Alt" and "Prnt Scrn" together.
Open your art package, I use paint
Then hold "Ctrl" and "V" to past.
Here is a copy of the terms you want.
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| Posted by: cyprus00 at August 6, 2007, 3:24 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Hi I've just read this thread and scared myself.
I won £2500 from carnival today on a bonus and now see that they might try and change the terms retrospectively.
http://www.carnivalcasino.com/promot...6/details.html
Would someone please confirm the terms from the link above are as follows for me.
Quote:
All PLAY BONUS credits are for wagering purposes only. Bonuses will automatically be removed from player’s account after a withdrawal request.
Only recipients of this promotional email are eligible for the bonus.
Bonuses will only be given on deposits of $/€/£ 20 (R150) or more. You cannot claim any other bonus in-conjunction with this promotion, including the first deposit bonus.
The maximum amount of bonuses you can receive is $/€/£ 500 (R3000).
Wagering requirements are 12x (25x £) for the deposit and bonus before withdrawing any winnings. Bets in all forms of Baccarat, Craps, Roulette and Sic Bo do not count ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: wobble33 at April 12, 2007, 12:07 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by copper007
Yes this was the email from Ann titled Come on over for some b-o-n-u-s-e-s! , thanks for confirming only four games were banned originally, got the feeling some didn't believe me!
For what its worth I have a response but I've no idea what it means as they quote their new bonus rules at me but then say my cashout is approved.
congrats mate, pleased you are going to get paid, because you were definitily right about the 4 games stated as required for wr
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| Posted by: chuchu59 at April 12, 2007, 4:32 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by copper007
Yes this was the email from Ann titled Come on over for some b-o-n-u-s-e-s! , thanks for confirming only four games were banned originally, got the feeling some didn't believe me!
For what its worth I have a response but I've no idea what it means as they quote their new bonus rules at me but then say my cashout is approved.
Maybe, just maybe, your posting at this forum helped. Congratulations on getting your winnings.
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| Posted by: Da_Gambla at April 12, 2007, 3:18 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by copper007
Yes this was the email from Ann titled Come on over for some b-o-n-u-s-e-s! , thanks for confirming only four games were banned originally, got the feeling some didn't believe me!
For what its worth I have a response but I've no idea what it means as they quote their new bonus rules at me but then say my cashout is approved.
Congrats on the approval! In my case, it wasn't whether I believed you at all. I just try to run through every scenario and try to figure out how you might be able to prove your claim ersus what the casino might come back with in their defense. Please know that quite a few people come through that want help, but it turns out the casino was right. It's rare, but it happens. I apologise that we have to ask the tough questions and play Devil's Advocate. Hope you get the payment timely!
- Keith
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| Posted by: lojo at April 12, 2007, 1:58 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by copper007
Yes this was the email from Ann titled Come on over for some b-o-n-u-s-e-s! , thanks for confirming only four games were banned originally, got the feeling some didn't believe me!
For what its worth I have a response but I've no idea what it means as they quote their new bonus rules at me but then say my cashout is approved.
I think they are saying... TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN!!!
Congrats
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| Posted by: copper007 at April 12, 2007, 1:22 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by wobble33
i recieved the same e mail about 7 times in 3 days off someone called ann. i quickly looked at the terms and cons, and can confirm only them 4 games were not allowed for the wagering. did you recieve this offer btw off ann? as soon as i saw the offer was off carnival, i binned it, then low and behold the next day another 3 e mails with the same 200% offer! this man is correct with the terms he quoted, but pity i didnt keep e mail, and take a screenie. i always do when i take these playtech offers up, but i didnt bother this time to take the offer up.
Yes this was the email from Ann titled Come on over for some b-o-n-u-s-e-s! , thanks for confirming only four games were banned originally, got the feeling some didn't believe me!
For what its worth I have a response but I've no idea what it means as they quote their new bonus rules at me but then say my cashout is approved.
Quote:
Dear Adam,
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| Posted by: wobble33 at April 11, 2007, 11:07 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
guys
managed to find this promo, but in the terms, they defo added no poker double
Promotion Dates/Times:
April 2nd 00:01 - April 15th 23:59 EST (casino Time)
All PLAY BONUS credits are for wagering purposes only. Bonuses will automatically be removed from player’s account after a withdrawal request.
Only recipients of this promotional email are eligible for the bonus.
Bonuses will only be given on deposits of $/€/£ 20 (R150) or more. You cannot claim any other bonus in-conjunction with this promotion, including the first deposit bonus.
This promotion is alid for 1 deposit only.
The maximum amount of bonuses you can receive is $/€/£ 200 (R1200).
Wagering requirements are 30x the deposit and bonus before withdrawing any winnings.
Bets in all forms of Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, Sic Bo and Video Poker Double do not count towards the wagering requirements of this bonus. The casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in exc... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: GrandMaster at April 11, 2007, 10:57 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Presumably they mean the double up feature in ideo poker, which normally counts towards WR and comp points at Playtech casinos, uniquely among the major software providers. If ideo poker is excluded, I don't think anyone would try to argue that the double up should count.
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| Posted by: wobble33 at April 11, 2007, 10:42 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by copper007
Carnival sent me an email promotion offering a 200% bonus.
I cut and pasted the terms (but unfortunately didnt take a screenshot)
Here is the cut and paste
I played ideo poker and withdrew £1080 after the sticking bonus was removed, toady I received this email
I double checked the email link and they've updated their terms between April 6th when I played. and now to reflect their claim, but basically I played an allowed game and now they've double tracked to steal my £980 winnings, how should I go about addressing this problem? Advice please. Thanks Ad
i recieved the same e mail about 7 times in 3 days off someone called ann. i quickly looked at the terms and cons, and can confirm only them 4 games were not allowed for the wagering. did you recieve this offer btw off ann? as soon as i saw the offer was off carnival, i binned it, then low and behold the next day another 3 e m... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Da_Gambla at April 11, 2007, 8:51 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by chuchu59
It is only logical to assume that since they listed a number of excluded games in their mail, those listed at the webpage would be no different.
Again, you've misunderstood the flow chart here chuchu... there were no T&C's in the email. There was a link to a promo website page, which apparently had the different terms. As I said, if the terms were in the email, the email would be the evidence, but that's not what is going on.
Whether or not the casino in question decides to pay copper or not, this post stands as an education to any bonus players. Do -not- rely on emails or links in emails. Visit the website, and click on their publically iewable T&C's. Send an email to support and alidate what you intend to use the bonus for, and get confirmation that this is allowable. Screenshot the public T&C and any significant wins. Only a rogue casino would then try to oid your winnings and refuse payment, but then if that happen... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: chuchu59 at April 11, 2007, 8:08 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
With the benefit of hindsight, Copper should have taken a screenshot. However, the casino only states that Copper played a disallowed game but did not state when the terms were changed or whether they were there in the first place. It is only logical to assume that since they listed a number of excluded games in their mail, those listed at the webpage would be no different. Otherwise, we can accuse the casino of negligence although the same can be said of the player as he didnt check it out clearly. If they changed the terms at a latter date, they should have sent a revised mail to all recipients of the earlier mail advising them of the changes or at least telling them that the terms have changed. If they had bothered to change the terms of this particular promotion, this would have been an easy thing to do.
Come to think of it, this casino has been around for quite some time and they did pay me quick so I bear no grudges against them. Whichever ersion is correct, the casino should bear some ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Da_Gambla at April 11, 2007, 7:46 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by copper007
Hi guys I'll try explaining again. The promotional email linked to this webage
http://www.carnivalcasino.com/promot...9/details.html
At the date I played (6th April) The text on this webpage was as outlined in the 1st post.
Between April 6th and April 10th they have changed the text on that webpage to read
So essentially they have changed the terms after I played and have retrospectively apply them to me. I cut and paste the terms then IMMEDIATELY PLAYED so there is no reason that I should not be paid in full.
Ok, let's assume the old T&C dug up was alid on that date. Then let's assume on April 5th they revised them and Video Poker Double was not an excluded game. Then on April 7th, they revised them again and re-excluded it. This is all alid for the casino to do. There is no expiry on T&C's. There is no body that governs when a casino can change these terms, or how... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: copper007 at April 11, 2007, 6:53 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Hi guys I'll try explaining again. The promotional email linked to this webage
http://www.carnivalcasino.com/promot...9/details.html
At the date I played (6th April) The text on this webpage was as outlined in the 1st post.
Quote:
April 2nd 00:01 - April 15th 23:59 EST (casino Time)
....
Bets in all forms of Baccarat, Craps, Roulette and Sic Bo do not count towards the wagering requirements of this bonus. ......
Between April 6th and April 10th they have changed the text on that webpage to read
Quote:
Bets in all forms of Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, Sic Bo and Video Poker Double do not count towards the wagering requirements of this bonus. The casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player’s withdrawal if the Bonus is wagered on the above games, before the wagering on allowed games is completed fully.
So essentially they h... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Da_Gambla at April 11, 2007, 5:54 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by chuchu59
Correct me if I am wrong but it does seem that the original offer did not include a link to any webpage. The link only existed in the mail sent to copper after he won and tried to cash out. Whilst I agree that casinos have to protect themselves they must only change the terms of an offer when the bonuses in question are deemed to have been abused and even then they should take certain steps to communicate the revised terms to the recipients of the offer. In this instance, they simply changed their terms and conditions at will. One thing that should be considered is whether they stated in their mail that the terms and conditions at the website is final. If this isnt stated why should the player have to go to the webpage to look for anything related to the offer.
As I understand it, you'd be wrong...
Quote: Originally Posted by copper007
Carnival sent me an email promotion offering a 200% bonus.
I cut and... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: chuchu59 at April 11, 2007, 5:21 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Correct me if I am wrong but it does seem that the original offer did not include a link to any webpage. The link only existed in the mail sent to copper after he won and tried to cash out. Whilst I agree that casinos have to protect themselves they must only change the terms of an offer when the bonuses in question are deemed to have been abused and even then they should take certain steps to communicate the revised terms to the recipients of the offer. In this instance, they simply changed their terms and conditions at will. One thing that should be considered is whether they stated in their mail that the terms and conditions at the website is final. If this isnt stated why should the player have to go to the webpage to look for anything related to the offer.
This is a specific offer and the disallowed games are clearly stated. If they dont want to be involved in any hassles, they should simply have stated that the disallowed games are stated in the webpage instead of listing them out and r... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Da_Gambla at April 11, 2007, 4:54 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by chuchu59
Just why does the burden of proof be on the player? The casino offered a bonus with explicit terms and the player accepted it. It is wrong to simply state that the casino can change the terms as and when they wish. Rather, they should have stated an expiry date on the offer. Any alterations to the terms should be stated afresh in a new offer. If they had wanted to alter the terms of a particular offer, they should have used all possible means to communicate this to the intended players through issuing a subsequent e-mail to those that had been offered the promotion in question. It is irresponsible to say that they changed the terms of offer and the player was too naive not to take notice by isiting the site. Even if he had and deposited 10 minutes later, it is still possible that they were changed in the interim.
Not sure you understand where this issue is going.
At this point, it is -quite- possible copper is either mistaken, or ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: chuchu59 at April 11, 2007, 3:46 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Just why does the burden of proof be on the player? The casino offered a bonus with explicit terms and the player accepted it. It is wrong to simply state that the casino can change the terms as and when they wish. Rather, they should have stated an expiry date on the offer. Any alterations to the terms should be stated afresh in a new offer. If they had wanted to alter the terms of a particular offer, they should have used all possible means to communicate this to the intended players through issuing a subsequent e-mail to those that had been offered the promotion in question. It is irresponsible to say that they changed the terms of offer and the player was too naive not to take notice by isiting the site. Even if he had and deposited 10 minutes later, it is still possible that they were changed in the interim.
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| Posted by: sdaddy at April 11, 2007, 3:01 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by copper007
Just to clarify, I do have the email, which had a link to the terms and conditions which I posted. Since I played they have altered the page which the email has linked to.
Just so there's no misunderstanding, the address of the page which the email was linked to was http://www.carnivalcasino.com/bonus_terms.php#1, right?
And if that's the case, what is your explanation of why a March 30th archive of that page includes language disallowing Video Poker Double?
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| Posted by: copper007 at April 11, 2007, 11:30 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Just to clarify, I do have the email, which had a link to the terms and conditions which I posted. Since I played they have altered the page which the email has linked to. Still no reply from Carnival after 24hrs.
Thanks for all the replys here.
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| Posted by: Da_Gambla at April 11, 2007, 4:34 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by aka23
There are many ways to lookup old websites besides archive.org and google cache. Here is a summary of the T&C from 3/30/07 (from live.com):
€/£/$ 777 Welcome Bonus!
* On your 1st deposit, receive a 100% match bonus worth up to €/£/$ 200
* On your 2nd deposit, receive a 50% match bonus worth up to €/£/$ 577
* The bonus may not be combined with any other bonus unless stated otherwise
* In the interest of fair gaming, wagering requirements are 12x (times) your deposit plus play bonus before cashing out any amount higher than your initial deposit amount. (20x for GBP)
* Bets placed on all forms of Baccarat, Live Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, Sic Bo, Pontoon, Casino War and Video Poker Double do not count towards the wagering requirement.
* The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player's original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on the above games, before ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: aka23 at April 11, 2007, 4:09 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by inylweatherman
I think they have come under new management.
They are now seemingly run by "Enter Casino", and include a whole nest of former "rogues" in the stable.
Enter Casino, Carnival, and Club Dice are all owned by Empire Online. I consider Empire below average, but several steps above rogue.
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| Posted by: aka23 at April 11, 2007, 4:03 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by copper007
I double checked the email link and they've updated their terms between April 6th when I played. and now to reflect their claim, but basically I played an allowed game and now they've double tracked to steal my £980 winnings, how should I go about addressing this problem? Advice please. Thanks Ad
There are many ways to lookup old websites besides archive.org and google cache. Here is a summary of the T&C from 3/30/07 (from live.com). If the promotions email listed different terms, then it could either be an intentional rule difference that some at Carnival were not aware of, or a sloppy email promotions writer.
€/£/$ 777 Welcome Bonus!
* On your 1st deposit, receive a 100% match bonus worth up to €/£/$ 200
* On your 2nd deposit, receive a 50% match bonus worth up to €/£/$ 577
* The bonus may not be combined with any other bonus unless stated otherwise
* In the interest of fair gaming, wage... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at April 11, 2007, 3:50 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by cyprean
Excuse me but what how does finding their old T&Cs help the player? I know you wanna help but..
If Carnival sends written e-mail promotions, they should respect the rules they have given in that specific promotion.
Playtechs, especially Carnival-likes, love to advert promos with GREAT terms and not respect the tules. Usually their live help is clueless. It's when you cash out you realize it's only Slots or whatever.
As I understood it, the terms weren't in the email. The email contained a ink to the offer. If he were to have a copy of the offer as it was presented to him (time travel) he would have more ammo.
As far as I can tell he hasn't tried everything he can yet to contact them and resolve it.
I don't have any experience with playtechs. But like you said, just trying to help
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| Posted by: cyprean at April 11, 2007, 2:15 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Excuse me but what how does finding their old T&Cs help the player? I know you wanna help but..
If Carnival sends written e-mail promotions, they should respect the rules they have given in that specific promotion.
Playtechs, especially Carnival-likes, love to advert promos with GREAT terms and not respect the tules. Usually their live help is clueless. It's when you cash out you realize it's only Slots or whatever.
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at April 11, 2007, 1:58 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
I think they have come under new management.
They are now seemingly run by "Enter Casino", and include a whole nest of former "rogues" in the stable. The description of the bonus mailer looks the same as the ones I get from Enter Casino. I did play there a little, but then smelled a large rodent and quit. I was then phoned and offered a ery large and ery "special" bonus, which is one of the things to look out for in the "spot a rogue" guide. I later received a mailer that marked the takeover, and invited me to sign up with the lavish bonuses at all the Sister casinos. One look at these "sisters" was enough to put me off for good, as the list included many of the "spammers" that had been bombarding my mailbox along with brands that have had past issues of non-payment by pulling obscure terms out of the hat.
It now looks like they have changed terms recently, but made this retrospective, and applied them to oid winnings from a pla... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at April 11, 2007, 1:20 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
The internet archive is AWESOME. There are old movies and cartoons there, scads of music, old propaganda films, (duck and cover, etc.) etc. Link gets you there and the 'wayback machine' is web.archive.org
Great place to kill time
Here are some German films http://www.archive.org/search.php?qu...3A%28german%29
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| Posted by: mikepipe at April 11, 2007, 1:16 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
i found the old t and cs from dec 12005:
Carnival Casino reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of this offer at any time and it is your responsibility to periodically check here for changes and updates.
Using the player's deposit and bonus funds to wager on Craps (all sorts of Craps) , Roulette (all sorts of Roulette), Sic Bo (all sorts of Sic Bo), Blackjack (all sorts of Blackjack) and Baccarat (all sorts of Baccarat), Jacks or Better (all sorts of Jacks or Better), Aces and Faces (all sorts of Aces and Faces), and Deuces Wild (all sorts of Deuces Wild) does not fulfill the player's obligations with regard to the minimum wagering requirements for £ $ and €.
Please Note that only players from Great Britain may deposit with £’s (GBP’s).
The bonus credits are for wagering purpose only, and you may not cash out the bonus. You may only cash out your winnings. Only withdrawal of an amount superior to the Play Bonus will be processed, and the Play bonus wi... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at April 11, 2007, 1:02 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=1&gl=us
Still can't find anything.
If you use google you can type in the casino name and in the returned results you'll see 'cached' and 'similar pages' under the description.
I was able to find the april 5 link above (no help) by doing an advanced search.
I would still suggest live chat or phoning them if it will be toll free. Emails are bad at even some good casinos.
Java1980 eventually got paid. Maybe he has some tips for you.
edit: checked the html source on the page and they didn't timestamp it or leave any other clues I could find
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| Posted by: copper007 at April 11, 2007, 12:41 am | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
hi guys thanks for your input. I dont know how to check old spidered internet files, but this was the link which has been altered. If anyone has the original screen shot I would love to have a copyhttp://www.carnivalcasino.com/promot...9/details.html from an email titled
Quote:
Come on over for some b-o-n-u-s-e-s!
I have emailed the casino banking manager (no response yet ) after that i will pitch a bitch.
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| Posted by: java1980 at April 10, 2007, 10:44 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
yeah a ery bad experience with them. not a trustworthy place. i wiould send them my id docs ia email and they decline that they have recieved them. and asked me to fax them. if i fax them they will complain that not clear docs. so they played games like this for over a month. and finally got paid.
avoid at all costs.
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| Posted by: lojo at April 10, 2007, 10:14 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
Google spidered and cached the index page on the 8th.. no help. Internet Archive has no pages archived in 2007...
As it was a link from email it may not have been indexed or archived by the engines anyway.
Like Keith says, the copy and paste doesn't hold much water compared to a screenshot.
Again, have you tried live chat and asked to talk to Chris?
Has anyone else had experience with Carnival?
Good luck
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| Posted by: Da_Gambla at April 10, 2007, 7:48 pm | | Topic: Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please Forum: Casino Meister |
It's going to be on YOU to prove they had other T&C's when you signed up and first started playing.
I'd go the sneaky route, and try to get a staff member to tell you when they updated their T&C. Be anonymous... try:
"Hi! I signed up a month ago or so and received a bonus. I haven't had time to login for awhile, but noticed your terms had changed. It now says Video Poker Double is no longer alid for play-through. Can you erify this is now the policy, and can you tell me when this changed?"
If you get someone to slip and say the T&C was changed on a date AFTER your first wager, you have a VERY legitimate bitch, and should be paid. If they don't slip up, it will be hard to prove it without a screenshot. Good luck!
- Keith
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