| Posted by: pokeraddict at January 14, 2008, 11:32 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
I have two of the accounts exposed in my PT from the early days. One was a huge winner in 10/20 and 15/30, the other was a small loser. What always struck me as odd in those early days was I could beat 5/10 for 2-3 bb/100 in some tough games. The 10/20 games appeared to have much more action but I would get raped in them. We're talking 15-20bb/100 losing sesions one after another after another. My prop managers thought I was crazy. Many other props had the same experiences on a bigger extreme. The trouble is that we don't have the massive smoking guns like an email of the master hh's etc. As a matter of fact as we found out AP destroyed the hh's from all games more then 2 months out. This always made me wonder.
I guess the answer is many of the old props have arying degrees of suspicions but none of us can really prove it.
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| Posted by: KellyBlend at January 14, 2008, 10:49 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by GaryWatson
.... do you not think it is conceivable that the cheating has been going on from day one?
I think we could draw further conclusions like in a buzzle if we exactly knew with which trick or software the cheaters have worked. If they used old client software then I think we could recombine some facts. This is a task for inspector Columbo and no task for an auditor.
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| Posted by: GaryWatson at January 14, 2008, 8:59 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
Question to Pokeraddict.
Now as you were at AP during their early days, do you not think it is conceivable that the cheating has been going on from day one? Im sure an experienced player would have been less obvious. Now it could either have been a sign of them getting smug & feeling untouchable about the scamming, total greed or it could be that they passed the account over to a play money level player. KGC, has shown that AP can do what they want. They look as corrupt as AP in this matter.
Maybe AP didnt see the point in investing the time in taking $1000 dollars an hour. Maybe they started using more accounts and started getting sloppy. Its fine to iscolate the high stakes, but theres no reason why this hasnt been tested right through the chain.
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| Posted by: lots0 at January 14, 2008, 7:51 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
This is part of a post I just did in another thread.
Quote:
AP must have hired some political advisor's, because they are using political tricks and gimmicks for damage control.
* KGC Releases the report on a Friday evening. - All politicos know you release bad news on a Friday evening, No one watches Friday evening news and by Monday morning some other bit of news is all the rage at the water cooler.
* Admit what everyone knows anyway. - Politicos know that you can't deny something after it has already been admitted, so you admit it again and then say in a ery ambiguous way that all the other problems have been 'addressed'.
* Don't admit or acknowledge anything other than what has already been previously released to the public.
* Spread around a lot of money to the 'friendly' press (in this case outfits like gambling911 and CAP)
* Get your spokespeople and shills to start the misinformation campaign. - This should start in earnest t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: GaryWatson at January 14, 2008, 7:36 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
What I would like to have seen is logs of each and every grandfathered account over that period & all of the accounts considered involved.
Full details passed over to a real authority with legal powers. Im sure there is more than enough to make a case.
I would like to know where the serurity team were playing at the time, if it was their day off or they were just browsing porn.
I would like a follow up on why it took a delay on blocking the accounts after it became public knowledge.
I would like a reason why AP initially denied any wrongdoing only to reverse the decision when they were left with little choice.
I would like to know why a multi million dollar fraud has been met with a mere $500k fine and no further action taken.
I would like to know why AP/UB are still live and allowed to process financial transactions.
I would like to know why credit card companies have not withdrawn their support to the site.
I h... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: jetset at January 14, 2008, 7:10 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
I've read through that Pokerati link and frankly I don't see anything fresh and new other than the Mohawk Technologies guy pushing the KGC line we have all followed here.
Nobody answers the alid questions surrounding people allegedly involved like AJ Green and Scott Tom, or how the scam was carried through, and the legitimate questions that have been asked here at Casinomeister and elsewhere remain unanswered.
It just leaves one feeling frustrated that the full story is clearly not going to be divulged by either AP, KGC, GA or....eventually if these current allegations amount to anything, UB.
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| Posted by: KellyBlend at January 14, 2008, 6:43 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
Absorbing phrasing on Pokerrati:
Quote:
Yesterday, Chuck Barnett, member of the Board of Supervisors of Mohawk Internet Technologies, told me that the delay was due to the size of the audit report and the time it took to properly analyze it. Speaking of the members of the Commission, he said, “I will say that this has been at the forefront of their attention for the past month. I know that they’ve taken time away from their families during the holiday season to commit themselves to this task… This is a ery serious situation which is being afforded the same sense of seriousness that it deserves.”
The only questions that remain have to do with Absolute Poker and Mark Seif. Will they make any statements with regard to the decision?
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| Posted by: GaryWatson at January 13, 2008, 9:31 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
I think any green light for the US would spell bad news for anyone outside the US. I think to allow a country like the US to have full regulatory powers would be a bad move
http://www.pokerpages.com/poker-news...case-29626.htm
I consider the UIGEA more of a ploy to steal control. I consider the UK as a more stable option & thats not because I am based in the UK. Ideally it should be an iinternational thing. Laws ary from country to country.
Our biggest issues.....
Dishonest sites.
Sites held accountable to no-one but themselves.
False & misleading terms.
Full public disclosure of ownership
I think sites should be run like banks & held accountable as such. Each participating country should have a rep to ensure their own laws are covered & a oting system in place for universal issues. Kahnawake to be scrapped for being a shell of a company. Bring in true regulators or keep it as it is, the ones in place are nothing more ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: KellyBlend at January 13, 2008, 7:35 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
Why not? The U.S. have already other international treaties with some Mohawks. The Mohawks have a certain right to do business like other countries, but they have to accept also international law, common business practices and ethics; and they have to improve their online gambling regulations (not only on paper - but in practise). I think they would be ery interested to agree upon a gambling treaty with the U.S., even if they have to comply with severe additional requirements. We in Europe wait on something like that.
However, I see the problem more with the U.S. than with the Mohawks. The U.S. have more or less the same problem than we in Germany because the legalization of gambling falls under the heading of states’ rights as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and not under U.S. federal law. And the states want to collect taxes and to protect their own gambling business. Each state has other regulations or considerations. Therefore, Barney Frank’s Proposal was imho a joke which helped him ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: GaryWatson at January 13, 2008, 6:04 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by SeattleSinner
Unfortunately I think this just demonstrates the further need for a reputable body like the U.S. government to step into the online gaming world to regulate. If this does not happen innocent unsuspecting consumers will continue to be cheated in a known or unknown fashion.
I wouldnt want the US government in to regulate anything. They have little respect for international laws & this is an international issue. i think that would be a step in the wrong direction.
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| Posted by: SeattleSinner at January 13, 2008, 5:41 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
What really got to me was the line in the report on the first page second paragraph. "As a result of received complaints, the Commission initiated an investigation into AP's operations." This is totally untrue. Kahnawake was called in my AP themselves when they finally admitted the cheating. This is also laughable considering any complaint I have ever made to Kahnawake would be and has been ignored.
Unfortunately I think this just demonstrates the further need for a reputable body like the U.S. government to step into the online gaming world to regulate. If this does not happen innocent unsuspecting consumers will continue to be cheated in a known or unknown fashion.
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| Posted by: mussy at January 13, 2008, 4:02 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
I'm not sure whether this should have a thread all of its own, but doubts are resurfacing over UB [owned, of course, by the people who own AP]. Some may recall that I posted a PocketFives piece by gank some weeks back, but had to backtrack because it became unclear how reliable it was.
Now there is a new thread on PocketFives, and one on 2+2. They revolve mainly around somebody called NioNio, who took a lot of money from highstakes players at UB, only to disappear apparently within days of the Absolute scandal breaking in full. He didn't just stop playing, the account was closed. It might be the employee's son mentioned in the gank piece, although it might be something else entirely. Other possibly suspicious accounts are being named, too.
None of the HH have so far looked terribly suspicious, but the win rate is extraordinary, apparently, and the sudden disappearance clearly looks odd, especially the timing of it.
Phil Hellmuth (who is associated with UB) has been quoted fro... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: NASHVEGAS at January 13, 2008, 3:05 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by GaryWatson
1. That only suitable persons and entities are permitted to operate within Kahnawake;
2. That the games offered are fair to the player; and
3. That winners are paid.
4. That cheats are protected.
5. That the general public are idiots.
Standard operating procedure seems to me (do not single Kahnawake out but they will prolly win the MVP for 2007)......Btw, you left out #6 but your point is spot on regardless!
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| Posted by: KellyBlend at January 13, 2008, 2:36 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
Imho it is also important to understand that an auditor ordinarily does only a lot of normative-actual alue comparisons, fixes certain random checks and checks the results of remarkable phenomena in more detail. He goes forward in essential things differently than a detective who assumes criminal energy by a much higher extent. And this is also the reason why in most audit reports you find a caveat like for example, "beyond this, it was not our task to find further dulose actions". To be honest, this case should release under criminal aspects further inquiries by Canadian detectives. I do not wish this Absolute Poker, but this company would have earned such an examination. And perhaps such an investigation would be in best interest of Joe Norton or Absolute Poker as a corporate identity to clean the mess. We all know that we have already a similar case on ub.
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| Posted by: Keyser at January 13, 2008, 8:35 am | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
I have read the GA report, which took me all of 2 minutes.
This is what I learned:
AP had employees who deleted records which hindered their "investigation".
What I didn't learn:
What exactly the breach was
When did it start
How did it happen
How long did it go on for
How widespread was it
How much money was stolen
Who was reponsible and who was involved (And no, listing of a few account names don't count)
Who in AP knew what was going on
Who in AP should have known about it but didnt
A detailed account of when AP learned of what was going on and how they reacted to it
What was done to the people that were involved, and what future actions might be taken
What actions will be taken to prevent such an occurrence from repeating itself
Honestly, what was the point? At least pretend that you care!
If you want to see what a similar investigation should look like, see the Thornburgh report on ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: jetset at January 13, 2008, 8:26 am | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
ABSOLUTE POKER ACCEPTS KGC FINDINGS
Damage control on steroids as online poker site tries to regain credibility
Absolute Poker was perhaps predictably in full damage control mode in responding over the weekend to the Kahnawake Gaming Commission findings on its cheating scandal (see previous InfoPowa reports) In a statement released to carefully selected media, the troubled site acknowledged "...the completeness and accuracy of the KGC conclusions."
Judging by initial reactions on player message boards there are many that will argue that statement. Numerous posts have been made criticising the KGC for the lack of detail in its published findings regarding those responsible, how the scam worked and what action has been taken against the fraudsters.
The main penalty imposed by the Commission requires Absolute Poker to pay a fine of US$ 500 000 within 60 days, and the firm has to foot the bill for the investigation by Gaming Associates triggered by the C... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Self Made at January 13, 2008, 2:28 am | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
The thing that struck me about the report (along with the lack of detail we would like to see) was that they didn't make any mention of punishment of the person/people who destroyed evidence. Sanction 1(c) talks about removing the person responsible for the impugned activities. But the definition of impugned activities in the first paragraph only seems to refer to the cheating. Of course it's possible they were the same person.
And what about the choice of words "mind and management?" If they're just an employee, you fire them and that's the end of it. But if they were an owner they could still have an influence on "mind."
Was the guilty party AJ Green, or whatever his real name is, as I've seen reported? I don't know the evidence well enough to express an opinion on that.
Quote: Originally Posted by pokeraddict
KGC claims in an earlier statement they own AP. Now they are fining AP $500,000. Are they fining themselves? Maybe I misunde... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mussy at January 12, 2008, 11:35 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
(JANUARY 11, 2008) — Absolute Poker (AP) issued the following statement today in response to the Kahnawake Gaming Commission’s (KGC) release of its report “In the Matter of Absolute Poker Investigation Regarding Complaints of Cheating.”
“When Absolute Poker notified the KGC of the security breach in our system, we had every expectation that the Commission would undertake a comprehensive and fair investigation. After reviewing the published report, we recognize the completeness and accuracy of the KGC conclusions, and we accept without reservation the KGC’s findings and sanctions. Most importantly, we are pleased, after these many months, that Absolute Poker can finally put behind it a most distressing and regrettable experience for the Company, its employees, and its customers.
“The KGC points out that ‘AP has taken the appropriate actions to address the ulnerability in its systems…and to prevent its systems from being compromised again…’ AP has appointed a team of both internal an... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: GaryWatson at January 12, 2008, 11:07 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
No matter what the outcome of the report, I have seen enough to avoid them like the plague. Maybe I am being narrow minded but when I deposit money, Its my money (until the likes of pokeraddict takes it off me). I want a site that is honest all of the time, not just some of the time. yeah, Lots0, whitewash but what can we do other than warn others. Too many brown paper bags in the industry.
I think the US made a stupid move last year, but something has to be done & the current regime is a joke.
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| Posted by: KellyBlend at January 12, 2008, 11:06 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote:
The Kahnawake Gaming Commission (KGC) announced today an audit into the current and historic activities of Absolute Poker and interaction with its gaming and financial systems. As a KGC licence holder Absolute Poker is obliged to adhere to the Regulations Concerning Interactive Gaming.
Absolute Poker has agreed to fully cooperate with the KGC and / or its agents.
Mr David Montour, the Commission’s Chairman, said, “This week allegations of impropriety have been bought to the attention of the Kahnawá:ke Gaming Commission. We have appointed experts to conduct a thorough audit of all circumstances, provide findings and recommendations to the Commission. The audit will not be restricted to examining theories circulating in Internet chat rooms and fora”.
.........
Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake
17 October, 2007
Annotation:
The technique to limit the scope of an audit subsequently is one possibility for the auditor to change ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: pokeraddict at January 12, 2008, 10:48 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
KGC claims in an earlier statement they own AP. Now they are fining AP $500,000. Are they fining themselves? Maybe I misunderstood?
Obviously there are massive details left out and covered up. Who's surprised? KGC and AP obviously don't take it seriously. Why should they when people still play there and affiliates continue to support them sending unknowing players to these thieves?
Quote:
Right now there isnt a more secure room online that AP and UB.
The above quote was made on CAP in a disgusting post and has been echoed by the likes of G911. When affiliates make comments like this and continue to support rogues it shows you just why rooms like AP don't have any reason to change.
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| Posted by: KellyBlend at January 12, 2008, 5:46 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
This was a limited scope audit and the result of this audit is the insight that the "impugned activities" - as far as alleged and already proven - occurred. I think the KGC will never publish the wording of the audit report.
We have only a iew new insights. The most important one is that subsequent to the impugned activities having taken place, person(s) associated with AP´s operations deleted certain gaming logs and records which had the effect of hampering the Commission's investigation …. but this obstacle did not effect the limited scope of the audit.
Whatever this means, the result is that nobody can prove any further wrongdoing and all parties involved saved their face. Business must go on. And we do also not know anything about the software the cheaters used to iew the hole cards.
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| Posted by: lots0 at January 12, 2008, 2:26 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
The "report" is a "White Wash".
Simple admission and move on strategy by Absolute.
Don't admit anything other than the cheating occurred. (they already did admit the cheating occurred once so it would be truly unbelievable to go back and try to say it did not happen...)
No names, no details, no charges filed.... Nothing.
These folks at Absolute Poker and KGC must have been taking lessons from American Politicos in how to get the public to over look the fact they are a bunch of scum bags...
Only stupid people or greedy affiliates will be satisfied with this non-report.
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| Posted by: mussy at January 12, 2008, 2:15 pm | | Topic: Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged). Forum: Casino Meister |
The one interesting part is item 2, the deletion of game records and logs. But the detail isn't there to see how extensive this was. And it's hard to tell whether they are saying that the absence of earlier HH than a few months back was deliberate (as seems likely to me) or whether they are talking about something else.
What is needed is access to the actual audit, not a second hand report on it.
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