| Posted by: RobWin at January 19, 2008, 7:05 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Gaahl
Hell, today is my 24th birthday.. LOL.. Had a woman in my pocket, guess I was to greedy, ended up with no woman at all.. yeh yeh, stocks in the bank Mee and a friend watching Pulp Fiction instead.. Thanx to lojo, Fear and loathing in las egas man! And thanx to winyl and everyone else..
Pissed drunk, nice birthday
Happy Belated Birthday Gaahl
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| Posted by: Gaahl at January 19, 2008, 5:11 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Hell, today is my 24th birthday.. LOL.. Had a woman in my pocket, guess I was to greedy, ended up with no woman at all.. yeh yeh, stocks in the bank Mee and a friend watching Pulp Fiction instead.. Thanx to lojo, Fear and loathing in las egas man! And thanx to winyl and everyone else..
Pissed drunk, nice birthday
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| Posted by: Rusty at January 18, 2008, 10:42 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Well done for following this up Ghaal, I hope that some of the support you got from members here gave you that extra incentive needed.
It is not just the money it is the principles involved.
Good luck at 23 RED
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 18, 2008, 9:20 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by lojo
I'm glad you followed through, Gaahl. At least you got your deposit back and exposed another incidence of this.
Now I hope they know that you'll never deposit there again and that 32Red has your future custom.
Maybe 32red could use this as a marketing move. PROMINENTLY state that you CAN play in any currency you want, UNLIKE many other casinos. It would get them players who prefer other currencies, as well as inform site isitors that there is this issue of currency when playing online, an issue that was not evident before.
They could even run a special offer for new players who come to them after having winnings confiscated purely as a result of the currency trap. Players would have to submit proof of the confiscation, and then they could be made an individual offer to suit their tastes. They should be asked to pass erification before being given the offer, as there is a danger that bonus whores would exploit this by faking... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at January 18, 2008, 8:11 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
I'm glad you followed through, Gaahl. At least you got your deposit back and exposed another incidence of this.
Now I hope they know that you'll never deposit there again and that 32Red has your future custom.
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 18, 2008, 1:24 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
You have told 40% of the player community about their "great customer service".
The problem with eCogra is that they take no account of whether terms are fair or not, but whether the casino acted within them. Generally, eCogra will insist on a return of deposit if the term invoked involves the "voiding of winnings", as in this case. I the case of fraud however, eCogra may allow the casino to keep some or all of a deposit to cover it's costs.
Casinos have far more freedom than they would have if they were judged by domestic consumer contract laws in the player's own countries. This now includes the UK, where from September 1st 2007 gambling debts lost their immunity from enforcement through the courts. This could be one reason why casinos have gone for whitelisting rather than full UK regulation, the other being a saving in tax.
Casinos that have these currency rules have tried to claim they are to prevent bonus abuse, but this has proven not to be the... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Gaahl at January 18, 2008, 12:57 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Sorry for not following up this case before now. I have had a pending dispute mediation with eCOGRA, therefor I have been reluctant to post any more posts here.
eCOGRA has finaly made a ruling, and that is that the Casino has to pay me back my deposit, not my winnings. I am glad that I atleast got my deposit back, but I am equally disapointed that it is OK for casinos to try and trick people with theese kinds sneaky terms and conditions. It just shows that Grand Hotel Casino doesn't care ONE INCH of the customer, other than taking their money, whatever means possible.
I will quote some of the points I made in my reply to Tex
Quote:
1. What would have happened if I had ended up loosing my deposit before my account was closed? Would I still had my deposit refunded? My gut feeling tells me no. I put my money at risk, I could have lost, but I won, what does that have to do with what currency I play in? For a serious run operations this doesn't matter. Look a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at January 11, 2008, 3:44 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by peteyweestro
NASH is absolutely right when he says americans just don't care unless it happens to then or theirs, and when it does thats when we get on the bandwagon but untill then it's so much "ah, so sorry for you but i gotta still get MY enjoyment"
This Yank cares
I doubt if Max or Bryan read every thread and Gaahl didn't ask them to look into it afaik.
So, please, Gaahl - keep the Board up to date when you learn something.
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| Posted by: peteyweestro at January 10, 2008, 9:50 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
NASH is absolutely right when he says americans just don't care unless it happens to then or theirs, and when it does thats when we get on the bandwagon but untill then it's so much "ah, so sorry for you but i gotta still get MY enjoyment"
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| Posted by: Gaahl at January 10, 2008, 3:07 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Doesn't seem like the casino is interested in replying me at all..
I just filed a dispute mediation to eCOGRA. Hope that they can do something about this.
It is not right that casinos imply these "FU" terms in their TC. Setting a trap for the player to walk right into... A guaranteed win for the casino, and a guaranteed loss for the player.
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| Posted by: NASHVEGAS at January 9, 2008, 10:19 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by inylweatherman
If it became more generally known that these online casinos were routinely confiscating winnings and STEALING even the original deposit under the guise of "voiding play", I would expect there to be increasing public and government support throughout the world for an outright BAN, (the American iew), rather than trying to bring the industry into general acceptance as a alid entertainment offering.
First of all, great post. I thought alot of what you posted. I am just not sure I could articulate my thoughts with the ability you do but I am sure I do not have the patience to type such a legnthy post, kudos to you.....Per the quote above, I can only wish "the American iew" but as was seen with the White Label Issue, Absolute Poker Issue, and other past and present issues, the playing public does not care (until it happens to him/her/it and then the fury) as they need their dopamine highs regardless and the industry know... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: tristan727 at January 9, 2008, 8:07 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
What a load of rubbish - all casino's know some player's prefer other currencies, for either playing enjoyment or other financial reasons - and all allow it, to maximise their customer base, without it costing them an extra penny. Grand Theft Hotel obviously had some minor issue about it, and the owner inserted a nice term allowing him to take all of their money...letting C.S. deal with any complaints, whilst he goes off sailing in the bahamas - until the issue gets raised somewhere like here, and he has to pay back one or two customers mebbe & then all is forgiven & certain affiliate posters give him this for taking the time to resolve it.
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 9, 2008, 7:46 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by NASHVEGAS
Very simply...."HEADS THEY WIN,TAILS YOU LOSE".....sad but true and just plain wrong and how T&C's are written (see FU clauses) but we continue to play!
We continue to play because the rogues ride on the reputation of the good casinos. Since this was a Microgaming casino, they had benefited from the Microgaming reputation.
This kind of screwing over of players only makes the fraud seem more socially acceptable, just as people do not shed a tear if some pervert gets their just deserts while in prison, but are horrified when a dear old granny gets robbed of a few pence. Businesses in general have had this attitude that we mere people are there for the harvesting, by fair means of foul. This has lead to a feeling in society that it is OK to screw over a business to gain a little more than we are entitled to, since we are simply giving them back some of what they dish out. Businesses try to tell us how this is still the... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: NASHVEGAS at January 9, 2008, 2:00 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Gaahl
If all foreign currencies were bad for me to play in, why did they even let me register and deposit
Very simply...."HEADS THEY WIN,TAILS YOU LOSE".....sad but true and just plain wrong and how T&C's are written (see FU clauses) but we continue to play!
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| Posted by: Gaahl at January 9, 2008, 1:33 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Thanx for the reply inylweatherman!
However:
Quote:
If the player WINS, however, the bets are VOIDED, and the player only receives back the deposit.
I won, but i had the win AND deposit confiscated. Beeing because I played in pounds, and not my native currency (which they do not offer). I contacted them first on mail (mail is posted in this thread) and later I called them on the phone.
I did not receive my winnings, nor did I receive my deposit back.
They refered me to the T&C which states that if you play in wrong currency, " Casino cannot be held responsible for any action taken afterwards."
It this case, that meant confiscating win and deposit.
I have sent their support an email explaning the situation, (I got hold of my account number with the method described in this thread, thanx for that tip!) I have also sent the rep a PM, I havent heard anything from the casino yet.
If all forei... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 9, 2008, 12:52 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Their policy is clear, and ery evil.
If the player loses, they DON'T get their deposit back because their bets are accepted and settled as losers.
If the player WINS, however, the bets are VOIDED, and the player only receives back the deposit.
This is a diabolical situation, and is worse even than the one at Grand Mondial and white labels. For this admission in the original Email, this casino should be thrown back into the pit.
Any rule, even if evil, should at least apply irrespective of the outcome of the wagering, otherwise it is simple cheating, plain and simple.
The casino INDUSTRY is just that, INDUSTRY. They know full well that average people do NOT always read every single term and condition for all the software they download. They have been brought up to the belief that the Windows operating system can be learned "by the seat of your pants", just like flying old aircraft. This was the whole idea behind the development of Win... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: chuchu59 at January 8, 2008, 3:08 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
All this discussion leads to nowhere. Just get VegasvipLounge to answer in this thread. He was active here in the past and last isited the forum on 28 Dec.
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| Posted by: Gaahl at January 8, 2008, 3:02 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Hello Lojo!
What happened is that I registered, played, won, had money in account, then account got locked and winnings and deposit confiscated. Reason beeing because I played in pounds while living in Norway.
Edit. Do eCOGRA take cases this old?
For lojo:
We can't stop here, this is bat-country!
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| Posted by: happygobrokey at January 8, 2008, 3:00 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
i was speaking only in principle. as your situation happened so long ago, and as casinos reserve the right to do whatever they please, you may have no recourse. but in principle you should. it's gutless the things these casinos do.
good luck if you chase it.
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| Posted by: lojo at January 8, 2008, 2:58 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Unless I read it wrong, Gaahl, it looked like they were saying in the old email that you spent the money
Quote:
we cannot refund your purchase
because it was played in the casino
but I could have put my brain on sideways today I guess they could be saying, 'It's okay to mess up a deposit then correct it, but if you play with any of that money we can steal it'
I've tried to conform many of my opinions to those of the Host and Board for the most part so I can be most helpful here; and unless I'm stretching, I think that confiscating a deposit is considered Rogue except in cases of direct and deliberate fraud. (it's still wrong unless returned to the rightful owner). As you didn't attempt or even accidentally defraud the casino, t&c or more specifically, the fu clause, be damned - there's no reason you shouldn't be refunded.
A PM to the Rep here is better than an email to the casino. If you don't get satisfaction (I would be more than a little surpri... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Gaahl at January 8, 2008, 1:24 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
So what do you recomend I should do "happygobrokey", or others?
My gut feeling is that it shouldnt matter what currency I signed up in, as I stated, all currencies they accepted was foreign to me. And I was allowed to register in pounds, even when I didn't live in Britain. If I remember correctly I won something like 1-200 pounds aswell. I feel that since they accepted my bet, they should pay me what they owe. At the ery least they should pay back my deposit, what hassle is it for them to do that?
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| Posted by: happygobrokey at January 8, 2008, 12:19 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
what currencies are offered there?
USD, EUR, GBP, and possibly canadian bucks and south african rands, the off chance of swedish kroner.
the email states that if you don't use that currency in your country, you are afoul of the terms. so only america, the EU, and britain are allowed to play, and perhaps a scant few other countries lucky enough to have their currency available. that cuts almost four entire continents (s. america, africa, asia, australia/oceania) from being allowed to play, plus the non-EU places in europe, as well as mexico and central america. racists!
but if you're a super-duper-nit, argue that banks in your nation transact using all types of currency, so there are in effect people "using" that currency in your nation.
any way you slice it, it's poop! if anything, playing in pounds is likely to give you the least amount of actual chips for your money, and thus a greater chance of losing it back to the casino. if, instead of buying 1... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: SlotsWizard at January 7, 2008, 10:41 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by Gaahl
We would like again to remind you that we always advise our clients to read the Terms and Conditions prior to registration, in fact, the system does not let you sign up until you tick a box saying "I have read and agree with the Terms and Conditions". By ticking that box you indicated us that you agreed with our rules and were aware of the fact that it is illegal to open an account in a currency that differs from the one in your country.
The bolded text is the part I have a problem with. I cannot stress just how simple it would be to implement the country-currency restriction programmatically. Even if MG wanted to offer it as an option to each individual casino (instead of a blanket restriction across all casinos), it would still only take a few extra lines of code. I consider myself lazy at times, but not implementing this in the registration form, that is VERY LAZY!
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| Posted by: Gaahl at January 7, 2008, 9:52 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
OK, I sent them an email right after lojo told me to :P They have not replied that yet tho.
BUT
I looked on my old PC and I managed to dig out the reply they made to me back then, and it do not give me high hopes to put it that way...
Quote:
Dear xxxx,
Thank you for your reply.
We are writing in regards to the previous e-mail you sent us and are
extremely sorry to inform you that we cannot refund your purchase
because it was played in the casino.
We would like again to remind you that we always advise our clients to
read the Terms and Conditions prior to registration, in fact , the
system does not let you sign up untill you tick a box saying "I have
read and agree with the Terms and Conditions". By ticking that box you
indicated us that you agreed with our rules and were aware of the fact
that it is illegal to open an account in a currency that difeers from
the one i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: elscrabinda at January 7, 2008, 5:47 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
They're accredited here so presumably have a rep. Message him/her and if they have any sense they will give you back your money (and winnings).
The issue is not whether they are allowed to do this, the terms and conditions of internet casinos allow them to do irtually anything, but whether they should do it. Other posters are correct in saying that by not taking a bonus you should be able to play freely without worrying that you haven't read every clause in the terms. Any casino that excercises their 'right' to screw someone over for the simple reason that they are allowed to is utterly rogue.
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| Posted by: lojo at January 7, 2008, 6:05 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by tim5ny
Maybe it's time to go to sleep!
t5ny waves his magical wanda away, makes the djinni blink, and lojo falls into a slimber like sleep;uncumbersummed by sugar plums or faerieclowns with scimatars... sleep lojo, sleep - it's good for e'vrywin on this great greygreengreasylimpoporiver of nubbly baleen and just so stories of dirty dog dingos yellow dog dingos...
Who was it, Enzo? That said lojo is 'Pleasantly Disturbed'? I'd have to agree through these sleepbeared eyes
Good morrrrrrning Meisterland
Hey ya'll... anyone think I shouild moderate me drinkin? How fun is that? Yummmmmmo!
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| Posted by: tim5ny at January 7, 2008, 2:23 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by lojo
last bottle of gin is gone doing odka now 1.5 ltrer I guesss thet makes, what 4litre or one half galllon off the pure, hMMM not so good, there is no ariance.
Maybe it's time to go to sleep!
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| Posted by: lojo at January 7, 2008, 12:15 am | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
last bottle of gin is gone doing odka now 1.5 ltrer I guesss thet makes, what 4litre or one half galllon off the pure, hMMM not so good, there is no ariance.
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| Posted by: vinylweatherman at January 6, 2008, 8:34 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
This is part of MiniVegas. They went on a locking spree around the time of your issue. They claimed that even players NOT using bonuses were engaging in "illegitimate play", and tried to confiscate winnings.
Many players engaging in said "illegitimate play" were registering their accounts in Pounds, even though they did not live in the UK. Although they took no bonus, this actually benefited their "illegitimate play", as it meant no WR restrictions, or account audit (or so they thought).
This is the only credible reason why some MG casinos confiscate from players who play in "the wrong currency" yet take no bonus.
They were briefly rogued for failing to deal with this properly, and in the end had to pay players who had not broken the terms.
It does not matter if it was a year and a half ago, if they were members of eCogra at the time, they can be the subject of a complaint, and this would be pretty damning as their rep assured the forum t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: tim5ny at January 6, 2008, 4:07 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by lojo
It be 757 mountain time and no sleep in sight 2 half gallons to go as far as booze, and that's mine, just to keep the mind dark and the nerves sharp. I'm not proud of it, nor ashamed, I just do it. Eight oh 3 now, ready for a new day
You go girl! err... I mean boy!
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| Posted by: lojo at January 6, 2008, 4:03 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by tim5ny
It's 9:30am here... and you just posted this. If you're in California for example, it 12:30pm. Are you still drinking from last night you mean?
It be 757 mountain time and no sleep in sight 2 half gallons to go as far as booze, and that's mine, just to keep the mind dark and the nerves sharp. I'm not proud of it, nor ashamed, I just do it. Eight oh 3 now, ready for a new day
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| Posted by: tim5ny at January 6, 2008, 3:34 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by lojo
No offense, just there right now in other ways. Wish me well, eh? I should know better, but I mixed alcohol tonight, ye ha booo hoo.
Back to the topic at hand
It's 9:30am here... and you just posted this. If you're in California for example, it 12:30pm. Are you still drinking from last night you mean?
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| Posted by: lojo at January 6, 2008, 3:30 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by tim5ny
You seem to have been offended by my joke?
I know LSD is for fools... thanks for the wisdom! My teen years were overflowing with foolish things.
No offense, just there right now in other ways. Wish me well, eh? I should know better, but I mixed alcohol tonight, ye ha booo hoo.
Back to the topic at hand
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| Posted by: GaryWatson at January 6, 2008, 3:24 pm | | Topic: Were they right to do so? Forum: Casino Meister |
I was just flicking through the wizards of odds & saw a funny thread that holds true in my eyes.
http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/tencom.html
Check out No1. It works both ways. Gambling rules come under what is know as a gentlemans agreement
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