| Posted by: RobWin at January 23, 2008, 1:14 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by aksana
I would like to say that the important role in my business had played the CasinoMeister forum, where I met real players, read their complaints, their success stories, and I understood that it's ery important to investigate a casino before to start promoting it, it's ery important to read its terms and conditions before to say it's fair and safe.
My main role is to prevent players from rogue casinos. Just need time to gather all information...
If only most of the other affiliates felt the same way...what great statements those are aksana...
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| Posted by: GaryWatson at January 22, 2008, 10:44 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by aksana
And it's not a secret, if an affiliate program is GPWA or CAP certified it doesn't mean that this program is trusted. Certified programs mean that they are sponsors of these forums, they pay money for their ads and etc. Of course, they should abide by the GPWA or CAP code of conduct.
I would like to say that the important role in my business had played the CasinoMeister forum, where I met real players, read their complaints, their success stories, and I understood that it's ery important to investigate a casino before to start promoting it, it's ery important to read its terms and conditions before to say it's fair and safe.
Yes
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| Posted by: aksana at January 22, 2008, 10:24 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
First of all I would like to thank you for this thread, because it's really ery interesting question.
When I started my website in 2005 I knew nothing about online gambling, but I knew that I could earn money. Yes, that's true, I didn't think about rogue or fair casinos, because I really didn't know about them and didn't know the differences between them. My friend explained me only how I could earn.
Ok, the business was really interesting for me, every evening I worked on my site after my daily work, I tried to categorize all casinos, add content and etc. I worked ery hard without any holidays and day offs, I learned online gambling, read articles and etc. More than a year I worked for free, earned nothing from my site. 1 year ago I left my job and now I'm a full-time webmaster and working only on my site.
One day I registered at GPWA, they approved me as a private member, and I started learning about fair and rogue casinos and affiliate programs. It was a big surprise for me... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: SlotsWizard at November 26, 2007, 12:35 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
What a great post, Dominique.
Every now and then people come along and lash out against affiliates because they simply don't understand any of what you wrote above. I have been on the receiving end of this misplaced animosity more than once.
Quote: Originally Posted by dominique
You work for free, spending countless hours building a site, and you only make money if one of the casinos on your site makes money because someone found your site, clicked on a link, went to the casino, signed up and actually deposited
That part bears repeating, and I will just add "and did not win".
The most nerve-wracking part is that as an affiliate you have no choice to believe the casino's stats are 100% accurate. You can track clicks on your website... but you have no way of knowing what happened once they left your site. You are at the mercy of the casino to hope that they are honest. This nervousness can be reduced by only promoting casinos which are ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at November 25, 2007, 7:20 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Okay, I signed up, got a flash ersino of a bingo game but it told me insufficent funds to buy cards.... maybe bingochatter.com is not it? please pm me
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| Posted by: BingoT at November 25, 2007, 5:19 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Dom you are thee best in the industry
You are my #1 choice if I ever need a helping hand.and I pass your name to many.
I oted for you too at CAP's
Now if I can only get my WildCard friends to come to Bingo Chatter.
Love Ya Dom for all the hard work you have done to help many.
Tom
xxoo
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| Posted by: dominique at November 25, 2007, 4:01 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Some facts about working as an affiliate:
You work for free, spending countless hours building a site, and you only make money if one of the casinos on your site makes money because someone found your site, clicked on a link, went to the casino, signed up and actually deposited. The ratio of clicks to deposits aries depending on the casino and the promo, but I see maybe 1 deposit for 100 clicks. Show me a sales force in the brick and mortar world that has such working conditions. There is no insurance, no base salary, no retirement, no nothing.
The casinos show you stats, some more so than others. As a rule (not always) these stats show # of clicks, downloads, signups, free players, deposits and profit to the casino. You have to believe the stats are accurate, but there is no way to tell. As a player you can see your history and you know if it's right, you were there. As affiliate, you just can't tell.
By the way, in most programs bonuses are treated as actual money and ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Simmo! at November 24, 2007, 7:08 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by BingoT
Crazy Vegas
Sun Vegas Casino
Cinema Casino
777Dragon
Arthurian Casino
Vegas Poker
CasinoUS
Maple Casino
Pokerroomla
Aspinalls
Aspinalls Poker
Not sure about "Pokerroomia" and "Vegas Poker", but the rest are all Microgaming and in the Vegas Lounge group and generally pretty good. CasinoUS and CasinoUK used to have the best loyalty points on slots - 0.05% - of any casino, but that may have changed.
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| Posted by: BingoT at November 24, 2007, 2:59 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
I would like some feedback on some of the casinos below.
The good/bad/ugly about them.
Thanks
B-T
Crazy Vegas
Sun Vegas Casino
Cinema Casino
777Dragon
Arthurian Casino
Vegas Poker
CasinoUS
Maple Casino
Pokerroomla
Aspinalls
Aspinalls Poker
Out of them all I heard Casino US is ok.
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| Posted by: Simmo! at November 23, 2007, 11:00 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by lots0
Suspended in May - Re instated in October.
http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...er.14958.html?
Just in time for 888 to be a main exhibitor at CAP Euro 2006.
http://www.cac2005.com/sponsors-amsterdam-2006.php
Just to clear something up there: CAP and CAC are two totally seperate organisations running seperate conferences. The Amsterdam event above is CAC, not CAP
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| Posted by: lots0 at November 23, 2007, 10:52 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Yup I guess 888 was removed from CAP for a few months.
Suspended in May - Re instated in October.
http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...er.14958.html?
I think most of us understand that the term ROGUE is subjective when applied to online casinos.
I guess all it boils down to personal "Ethics" and what each of us finds offensive or "wrong".
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| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 23, 2007, 9:28 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
By the way, 888.com lost their stripes here:
http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...ed.11581.html?
But I think they regained them. Just like they were rogued here for a while - they cleared up the blog crap and promised to be more responsive/responsible.
That's another thing. There are some rogue behaviours that pass with time. Sometimes a casino or casino group screw up something royal (Jackpot Factory's "I cured cancer with slots" debacle comes to mind), but once the problem is addressed and fixed, what then? JP was in the rogue pit for six months or so, but brought back on board about a year ago and things have been fine since.
And then there are absolute evil rogue entities...
So at times "rogue" can be a bit tricky...
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| Posted by: lojo at November 23, 2007, 9:22 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Giving credit where credit is due... I mentioned in another post in this thread that at least one Rival affiliate manager screens their new affiliates to be sure they aren't promoting casinos that steal, at the ery least.
I wanted to mention the forward thinking excellence of 3Dice. When alerted to an affiliate site that was promoting them on the same site as thieving casinos - they made the decision; 'they can choose us or the rogues' we will not support that affiliate if they don't remove them.
Kudos!!! 3Dice understands that in the long run it really does matter who their 'bedfellows' are.
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| Posted by: lojo at November 23, 2007, 9:18 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
No problem, I totally respect your position and we will keep it cool, and the 'outing' will be done in accord of the rules.
Have a great weekend
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| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 23, 2007, 8:30 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
It's Friday night my time, and I know there is some olatile subject matter here. Please no flaming, no obnoxious behaviour, no portal wars, or anything else that could be a breach in the posting rules.
Had to say this before taking off
Be cool.
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| Posted by: Casinomeister at November 23, 2007, 8:26 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
In defense of CAP (and the GPWA for that matter) they are in a tough position when it comes to determining what "rogue" is when it pertains to casinos/poker rooms. They are both businesses set up to support the affiliate and affiliate programs. So in essence, this is the segment of the industry that they are concerned with.
For a fact CAP does take action against programs that support rogue behaviour (888.com for example during the Black hat blog spam). But I honestly don't think they are equipped to handle what defines rogue as it pertains to players. Mostly because they are approaching the industry from another perspective.
There are many levels of "rogue" and it can be extremely subjective. In Casinomeister's rogue section there are a number of categories, some more serious than others. If an affiliate had promoted the FL group while they were rogued here, that was no big deal for me since it was the casino's lack of proper action that landed them in the rogu... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at November 23, 2007, 7:47 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
In one of my initial posts in this thread I suggested that people identify rogue affiliates, contact them in private to inform them that they were promoting rogues, and if they didn't 'change their ways', in a reasonable amount of time - to out them here.
I was referring to that as much as you 'outing' CAP. From my experience here, the posts are never removed. (unlike some other less credible forums run by rogue affiliates)
But, of course it is their call.
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| Posted by: lots0 at November 23, 2007, 7:42 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote:
Is this a losing battle?
If you mean, stopping ROGUE Casino Affiliates... yes I believe it is a losing battle, until there is regulation of online gaming instead of prohibition inside the US.
As far as not falling afoul of the T&C's here, I was posting to point out a ery real problem in casino affiliate marketing, even though it is a problem that ery few in the business even want to talk about in public.
It is up Bryan and the Mods if they want to remove my post or not.
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| Posted by: lojo at November 23, 2007, 6:55 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
That is surprising and disappointing, Lots0. I had no idea. I've always respected and admired the Professor's contributions here.
I hope that this thread doesn't fall foul of the term against 'posting solely for the purpose of damaging another's business'; but I would think acceptions could be made. Rogue is rogue and information is information. As long as the claims are substantiated (your links are alid, you have cited inquiries to them in this matter) I think publishing the information here is proper and should be encouraged by Bryan.
How to bring CAP into the light?
Will the Professor respond?
Is this a losing battle?
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| Posted by: lots0 at November 23, 2007, 6:20 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Outing Rogue Affiliates, interesting subject.
If your going to start outing rogue affiliates, in my opinion, you should start with Casino Affiliate Programs (CAP), one of the so called "leaders" in the casino affiliate business.
A large number of new casino affiliates get their information about casino affiliate programs and their start in the casino affiliate business from CAP. When the new casino affiliates see that CAP promotes ROGUE programs they think that it is OK to promote ROGUE casinos. I mean if CAP, one of the top casino superaffiliate websites promotes Rogue Casinos, why can't the average casino affiliate webmaster promote ROGUES like Absolute Poker?
In the CAP awards, Chipleader, the affiliate program for Absolute Poker is listed as a choice for "Best Poker Affiliate Program".
capawards. com
The discussions at CAP regarding making Absolute Poker a Rogue because they were caught cheating, have been quashed at CAP by the admin, a gu... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Elgoog at November 20, 2007, 5:27 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
wow...
couldn't have said it better Dominique
and:
Quote:
There is one misconception often heard from players: The affiliate is beholden to the casino because of the money aspect. That's nonsense.
Firstly, the affiliate has as many casinos to choose from as the player. If a casino does badly by players, it most likely cheats affiliates too. Affiliates get cheated constantly, and most of the time it's by crappy casinos. DUH!
actually players and affiliates are in the same camp
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| Posted by: dominique at November 19, 2007, 1:25 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by USA2112
The statement was just hypothetical, I’ll change that to a steak bone.
I know.
I just thought I'd take the opportunity to make that comment, lots of people don't know and lots of dogs die when people just meant to be nice.
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| Posted by: USA2112 at November 19, 2007, 12:53 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by dominique
Neither dog will come back because chicken bones splinter and never should be fed to dogs. Both dogs died from slit intestines.
The statement was just hypothetical, I’ll change that to a steak bone.
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| Posted by: dominique at November 18, 2007, 2:16 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Being an animal lover, I must set this one straight before I address the real subject:
Quote:
question is though will both dog’s come back for another serving of what was thrown in the yard, I doubt it.
Neither dog will come back because chicken bones splinter and never should be fed to dogs. Both dogs died from slit intestines.
Now to the real topic.
IMO affiliates need to spend time on establishing contact with all the groups they advertise. If they don't bother to do that, they can't stand behind their players because the casino groups will just ignore them should there be a problem.
Casinomeister and my site likely agree 90% to 95% of the time on who is rogue. Occasionally he will rogue someone I don't, or I will rogue someone he doesn't. This isn't because we talked it over and disagreed, it's just based on player experiences from the different sites. It's not an exact science and has a lot of ariables.
I think every ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: aka23 at November 18, 2007, 11:03 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by USA2112
Accredited casino offers on average are 100% match bonus and average play through some times a little more. On the other hand, most Rogue casino’s usually offer match bonuses that are ridiculous like 400%, 600%, 900% and average play through and is clearly ery enticing to the newbie‘s. This is the intensions of the rogue casino tactics, it is not to try and entice an experience player “ They just walk away ” But the newbie that’s a different story.
No pun intended! But it’s like you have two stray dogs and you throw two chicken bone’s in the back yard, one having a little chicken left on it and the other one has a hole lot of chicken left on it dowsed in Tabasco sauce, both dogs will smell the chicken bones but, the experience dog will leave the one that smells funny alone and the inexperienced dog even though he knows it smells funny will gobble it right up and get burned. Then after words do it again... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: USA2112 at November 18, 2007, 9:21 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by lojo
As time goes on, maybe you can 'rehab' rogue affiliate sites for a fee
Not sure if the pay would be the same, but I know the job would be easier.
Quote: Originally Posted by aka23
Regarding promoting rogue casinos, I think it is more an issue of how the rogue casinos are promoted. Saying Rogue Casino X is great without explanation may fall under multiple categories above. However, saying Rogue Casino X is bad... play there at your own risk, does not.
On my site, I list all casinos that use the common softwares. This includes accredited casinos, rogue casinos, and casinos without affiliate programs. If I am aware of unexpected issues that may occur at the casino, I include a warning that describes the possible problems.. This allows players to make an informed decision about whether they want to play there or not. There are warnings about some accredited casinos, most of the rogues, and some casinos th... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at November 18, 2007, 5:39 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by aka23
I am fairly certain I have never received affiliate payment from the casinos on the current rogue list. I have received payment from some casinos that appeared in the rogue section in the past, like the Fortune Lounge group (Microgaming) and 888.com .
Excellent!!! Thank you for easing my mind. Where can we go from here?
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| Posted by: aka23 at November 18, 2007, 5:32 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Quote: Originally Posted by lojo
Okay, i read it again... I agree that the definition of a 'rogue affiliate' should be expanded, and you did it beautifully. I would love to see more discussion.
i don't pretend to know the intracies of the business.
Do you make affiliate moneys from casinos that are rogued here and blacklisted elsewhere?
...
I am fairly certain I have never received affiliate payment from the casinos on the current rogue list. I have received payment from some casinos that appeared in the rogue section in the past, like the Fortune Lounge group (Microgaming) and 888.com .
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| Posted by: lojo at November 18, 2007, 5:03 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Okay, i read it again... I agree that the definition of a 'rogue affiliate' should be expanded, and you did it beautifully. I would love to see more discussion.
i don't pretend to know the intracies of the business.
Do you make affiliate moneys from casinos that are rogued here and blacklisted elsewhere?
Please don't take offense, you know the esteem I hold you in for the gambler's sake; and I hope you know, by references in my posts to your site, that you have the best bonus info available to my knowledge.
I just believe there is a line... and any one who makes money off of casinos that do not pay their players, can be on the rogue side of the line. I am not black and white, I don't believe in the carrot and the stick. I want a win/win situation. And that isn't grey/gray.
A thief is a thief. A co-conspirator is just that.
Information for information's sake carries responsibility.
Bottom line in my opinion: You can share all th... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: aka23 at November 18, 2007, 3:12 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
I have a different definition of rogue affiliate. A rogue affiliate might include any of the following:
-- Sends unwanted spam. This may include email, as well as forum spam.
-- Has a site that causes unwanted downloads, such as an unexpected casino toolbar or a irus.
-- Copies content without permission.
-- Intentionally posts incorrect or misleading information, usually in an effort to encourage sign-up through their links. (This is surprisingly common, so much so, that I do not trust content on the majority of affiliate sites)
-- Unintentionally posts seriously damaging information to referred players, usually due to lack of knowledge about casinos or gambling.
-- Uses search engine "black hat" techniques, either on their site or on their competitors' sites.
-- Certain unfriendly site issues, like neverending pop-ups (close one and another appears).
-- Other things that don't come to mind.
=====================... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at November 18, 2007, 12:48 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
As time goes on, maybe you can 'rehab' rogue affiliate sites for a fee
I have a friend on here with whom I haven't spoken in quite awhile; he looks out for affiliates... I have thought about approaching him to see if he would consider 'certifying' his members or somehow assuring they're 'clean'. He may already, never looked at his site.
Err hemmm... to any iffy casino reading this, you might want to get out of the Rogue Pit and off the Blacklists asap... I'm starting to get a little ember of passion in the pit of my gut... I'm sure with enough player community involvement, ANY casino that decided to run right could increase their revenues by being a stand up operation. I'd only want to offer a win/win situation.
μεγαλομανία moi?
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| Posted by: USA2112 at November 18, 2007, 12:20 am | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Your right lojo, 95’ you would have caught the whole wave, but it’s never to late. I could have caught half of the wave but being I procrastinate to much and the rehabbing business I have I just let it slip on by. No biggie though, and I haven’t chose the greatest time to start because of “ legislations ect ” but I still look forward to the challenge to see what comes of it. Ah! the road to success! “ yeah right ” lets just say I‘m glad I’m still in the rehab business.
Its good to hear certain Rivals are screening their affiliate sites maybe others will follow. No matter where the overall industry is today there’s allot of changes that need to be made in the future that taint the business, including the fraudulent players that create multiple accounts and are always trying to cheat the casinos, this does nothing but put good casinos on the defensive. “ Not good! ” I believe this is a part of why some casinos end up rogue and bankrupt, they weren’t prepared for these types of obstacles like ro... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: lojo at November 17, 2007, 10:43 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Thanks for the reply, USA2112. You make good business sense and I hope you succeed. If I would have a had a clue about the affiliate thing or was even remotely focused on online gambling when I started doing web development in '95 I think I could have done well for myself. (I don't really do anything web related any more)
I'd also be real interested in what some of the other webmasters have to say, as well as players and casinos. One of the Rival affiliate managers has assured us that they screen their potential affiliates for rogue content.
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| Posted by: lojo at November 17, 2007, 10:30 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
That's great, Tom! And I'm sure if someone pointed out a link on your site, and you found that they weren't treating players right, you'd remove the link right away.
I can also understand if CasinoX didn't think it was any of their business where else an affiliate pointed, as long as CasinoX was an honest casino... I just don't agree that it is okay for them to pay people who may use the income to promote other casinos that will rip the players off.
I can be enlightened if anyone disagrees with my philosphy there... as it may reach too far and ultimately be none of my business.
I just don't think it's us against them (players s casinos) I think it's the good guys and the bad guys. There are rogue players, rogue affiliates, and rogue casinos. There are honest players, honest affiliates, and honest casinos. That is the line that should be drawn in my opinion, and people should step on one side of the line and be counted if they care about others in their 'class'.
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| Posted by: USA2112 at November 17, 2007, 10:29 pm | | Topic: Outing Rogue Affiliates Forum: Casino Meister |
Good subject lojo, there’s allot of websites that don’t take the player into consideration when advertising as an affiliate even though they should. I think many fall short when starting their website, its almost counter productive thinking, they think it is this big cash cow and they do not care about the players and think their going to get their hands on the big money. “Not” you need return customers. The ones I loathe the most are people who use free sites and don’t read the TC’s for the site. They put up a bunch of casino banners and are breaking laws! when doing so, it is illegal. “ That‘s a story in itself ” And does nothing but hurt the whole industry.
Its not just about getting people to signup as players, for the webmaster / affiliate to earn money that comes from satisfied customers that signup at casinos and are willing to return and play, which means, players do prefer casinos that have good customer support and can be trusted when it comes time to cash out. Sending people to rog... | | Read Entire Entry |
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