| Posted by: derek at March 19, 2004, 9:37 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | | nice post guys.having only been playing limit about 3 months I find your results very interesting.I have noticed a difference in my profits since I started playing suited connectors down to 5,6s. I was playing mostly big cards and breaking about even.I read lee jones "winning low limit" and it has helped my game. I don't totally agree with his starting hand/raising chart .I think it is more for a loose typical to aggressive type game not the loose passive type games I have been playing in but I am still a newbie so what do I know for the most part it has helped me alot.do you guys have any opinions on this book. thanks GONZO if you don't mind me asking what is your bb/hr over 50,000 hands?? do you play more than 2 tables at a time??Any winning players that want to share advice it would be welcomed.As of now I am making more in bonuses than at the tables. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: HyuStrider at March 19, 2004, 8:45 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | I've played around 20,000 party hands. So, yeah, I may slide down at some point, but it's been pretty good statistically.
I'll play Axs, depending on the situation, a decent amount -- but Kxs, I'm wary of.
They may be profitable for you, but there's something important to keep in mind here -- you show profit with some hands that are, intrinsically, almost identical to hands that you've shown a loss with. That, on its surface, suggests a degree of random chance that would belie your individual probabilities at any given point.
I may be wrong, but I'm happy with how I do it currently -- though I will try your advice by mixing it up a bit more and playing a few occasional suited smalls. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Gonzo787 at March 19, 2004, 5:21 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | Every new guy you talk to is the best poker player in the world.
Hyustrider, you lost me when you said "I'm doing a pretty consistent 10BB/Hr on Partypoker .50/1.00". In the long term, I doubt whether a person could do that well over even if they knew exactly what the other players have. So if you are indeed averaging 10BB per her hour, prepare for your ride down. Secondly, if you aren't playing hands like T8s,76s, or Kxs IN THE RIGHT SITUATION you are losing money IMO. I also have made a majority of my money at these very tables and have been successful with many suited hands. Yes, I probably have called too much in the past in some situations but let me run through some statistics with you. This is a sample of 50,000 party .50/1.00 hands (some might say it is too few but I think it is enough to at least give you an idea of what I am trying to get to). Here are hands that I have played in the past in the right situations that I have a profit on: A9s,A8s,A7s,A6s,A5s,A4s and A2s. For some rea... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: HyuStrider at March 19, 2004, 12:08 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | At the moment, I'm doing a pretty consistent 10BB/hr on PartyPoker .50/1, not counting bonuses. Depending on your table, it'll vary, but at a typical table The lowest suited hand I'll play is jack-ten, and I might toss that if it's raised. Ax suited I'll play about half the time to throw off my opponents, but in general if you're playing hands like T-8suited at .50/1, you're playing a good deal too loose.
The best money at the very good PartyPoker .50/1 tables is not made by being over-aggressive and stealing pots -- it's flopping the best hand and making your opponent with a second-best think he's got the tops. To this end, ace-high flushes, pocket pairs when they hit their set, and the occasional high straight you hit are really your bread and butter. Sure, you'll sit back and see a decent amount of pots go to ace-small twopairs and baby flushes, but you can't be thinking to yourself every time, "that could have been me." A significant amount of the time if you discard a lot of hands, you'll... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Lipman at January 27, 2004, 10:21 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | What the roll does with fancy math, I do with crappy spreadsheets
All my calculations are assuming you have suited connectors that have all straight options available (i.e. KQ would not work since you cant make a straight by getting the next 3 high cards, so only hands like 67 suited or 10-J suited are included)
Total flops possible - 19600
Total 4 flushes possible - 2145
Total flushes possible - 165
Total open ended straights - 2032
Total straights - 128
Total double gut shots - 128
Overlapping hands (i.e. 4 flush and straight draw) - 306
So you have an 11.79% chance of getting a 4 flush or flush
An 11.02% chance of getting an open ended straight, double gut shot, or straight
And a 21.25% chance of getting a 4 flush, flush, open ended straight, double gut shot, or straight on the flop
And as confusing as Bankroll's post was, he is dead on | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Bankroll at January 27, 2004, 5:42 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | This may still not mean anything to you, but here goes:
First Equation is ((11 CHOOSE 2) * (39 CHOOSE 1)) / (50 CHOOSE 3)
where (X CHOOSE Y) = X! / ((X-Y)! * Y!)
where Z! = Z * (Z-1) * (Z-2)... * 1 so 5! = 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1
* = multiplication
/ = division
11 = # of the suit remaining in the deck of which you're choosing exactly 2 to be on the flop
39 = remaining cards in the deck that are not of that suit of which you're choosing 1
50 = total number of cards excluding the two in your hand from which to choose a 3 card flop
so the numerator counts the number of ways that you can flop exactly two of your designated suit, that is you choose two of your suit from the 11 remaining and 1 card from the remaining 39 cards
and the denominator is the total number of ways the flop can come from the remaining 50 cards unseen by you
the quotient is that percentage of all possible flops that contain exactly 2 of your suit... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Bankroll at January 27, 2004, 3:33 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | Hitting exactly a 4 flush = (39 X 11)/(10 X 49 X 8 ) = 429/3920 = .1094387
You probably want to add to this the probability of hitting your flush on the flop which should be = (3 X 11)/(5 X 49 X 16) = 33/3920 = .0084183
So adding these is the probability that you improve to a 4 flush or flush on the flop = .117857 = 11.7857% | | Static Link |
| Posted by: jek187 at January 27, 2004, 1:03 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: does anyone know the odds of hitting flop with suited connectors?? example 4 to a flush or open ended straight??
I think I remember reading that you flop a 4 flush with 2 suited cards 11.1% of the time. Maybe TD will grace us by calculating the odds of flopping an outside straight draw. [/url] | | Static Link |
| Posted by: jek187 at December 26, 2003, 1:59 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | Hi Wiggum,
Gonzo gave you as good of advice as is reasonable given the media of posts. There is much to be said about suited and/or connected cards. The best discussion of this can be found in HPFAP. Also, Hold em Poker by DS talks about it as well. Just making a shoot from the hip prognosis, I think that would be a very good book for you. The price is $19.95 and you'll make that back in your first 20 hours of table time (assuming you play $.50/$1.)
I will add that cold calling raises (assuming that's what you mean by blind calling) with these hands is almost never correct. Maybe something like T9s on the button after 4 people are in the pot, but even then it's marginal. If you're in a game where people are cold calling with cheese like 64s or even playing 92s, then you're in a good game. Just don't play like the fish.
Richard's advice is spot on about how to play baby flushes. However, there is one typo:
Quote: However, if you first bet out and get raise, and y... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Richard_En at December 26, 2003, 4:10 am | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | ;::: How does everyone handle their low flushes when they reach them and your opponent(s) are betting or rererasing? Is a check and call strategy appropriate?:::
It all really depend on what you put your opponnent on. That is why learning how to read hands is very important in becoming a long term winner.
Most of the time, I raise and re-raise because the chances of running into a higher flush is very rare (but it happens). Generally, if you opponnent is bad, raise and re-raise. If they are the rock type or the solid-tight and agressive type who has re-raise your raise when it's obvious you have a flush, then I would just call.
However, if you first bet out and get raise, and you only call, then generally speaking you are playing too tight.
Richard En | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Gonzo787 at December 22, 2003, 4:38 pm | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | This is one of the areas I am currently wresting with at the moment since I mostly play the very loose .50/1.00 games at party.
In Sklansky's HEPFAP he addresses two specific looser calls reguarding suited cards.
Page 38..."If you are on the button, a lot of players are already in and thee pot is not raised you can call with many additional hands. This includes Group 8 hands and hands as weak as Q,5 Suited"
Page 162 (playing in loose games)...."if you are against people who play badly, there is not a lot of raising before the flop, and because of the fact of how these hands materialize you sould play a lot of hand, especially suited hands." It then gives the example of K,5 suited. It says you do this for four reasons: 1)four people have come in 2)there was no raise 3) they play badly and 4)you will play it well.
Obviously you need to play it carefully if 2 flush cards do not come up, but you hit a king.
Hands like 7,9s j,9s , 8,6s become very playable i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: wiggum82 at December 22, 2003, 11:38 am | | Topic: Playing suited/straight suited pocket cards Forum: Bonus Whores | I am a rookie, though not a pushover, when compared to other poker players on the Internet. I have seen a lot of people playing suited cards (2, 9) (7,9) (4,6); sometimes blindly calling a raise before pre flop.
My question is this? What is the general rule when it comes to suited/suited straight cards? Would you play a 3,4 suited? How bout an 8,9?
Or what about just suited cards? I have been going under the philosphy that I only play an Ace High suited (and of course raise if its a Q or K).
Any feedback would be appreciated. | | Static Link |
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