| Posted by: AJ at July 7, 2005, 7:23 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | FeelingLucky wrote: AJ wrote: After all, you can't really push me off of my draw in limit poker.
Sure you can. At least if you pay attention to pot odds and don't overestimate the implied odds. Often the pot is just not big enough to warrant chasing even a flush, if you were to stick by the numbers.
Well, yeah, I didn't literally mean that it always made sense to draw to a flush, but I'd estimate that about 90% of the time that the board flops two of the same suit, that there's enough money in the pot to make it worth while (even ignoring implied odds).
Who knows, maybe I don't play AA aggressive enough. I'm just not as willing to cap betting when all I have is a pair (vs. the nut hand).
Out of curiousity, what's everyone's details? Mine are as follows:
Code:
Hand Win % BB / Hand
AQs 72.7% 2.87
QQ 69.8% 2.63
KK 66.7... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FeelingLucky at July 6, 2005, 2:06 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | AJ wrote: After all, you can't really push me off of my draw in limit poker.
Sure you can. At least if you pay attention to pot odds and don't overestimate the implied odds. Often the pot is just not big enough to warrant chasing even a flush, if you were to stick by the numbers. But of course, we limit players can't shift the odds at will by increasing the size of our bets, so no-limit is way different.
Roughly 70K of limit hands (by no means a massive amount); AA is by far my biggest winner (both net amount, win % and more importantly BB/Hand); followed by KK and AKs. Then JJ and QQ (in that order, oddly enough); and after that the differences are small between KQs, AQo and similar hands.
No real point to this post I guess, just another set of numbers. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: AJ at July 6, 2005, 1:29 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | I mentioned elsewhere that I believed this applied more to limit than no limit, and that's what I usually play (limit); so perhaps that explains the difference. After all, you can't really push me off of my draw in limit poker.
On the other hand, Doyle said he prefered AKs to AA in NL. But then again, there's playing style to take into account. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: macman at July 6, 2005, 10:32 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | With over 200,000 hands in PT, AA is far and away the biggest winner, followed by KK followed by QQ. It's not even close. Now this is NL play so it would be different than Limit play. It would be rare that I am taking my high PP's against more than 2 players, generally 1 as I will make a 4x to 8x pfr with them.
AKs profit is in the same category as JJ, TT and 99. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: AJ at July 6, 2005, 8:52 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Old thread, but I finally have enough data in Poker Tracker to provide my numbers (I've played poker far longer than I've had Poker Tracker).
Not only is AA not my biggest BB/100 winner, it's not even 2nd or third. The winner is KK followed by QQ followed by AQs, followed by AA.
That doesn't surprise me. It's almost what I would expect, and I think it supports my argument. (Of course, my playing style may also influence the wins, along with random luck.)
But it looks like it's hard to get away from AA. If I have KK or QQ, for example, if there's an A on the board, I can get away from the hand more easily. Yeah, I may win more often with AA (I don't have the stats in front of me); but when I lose, I lose more.
As for AQs...that would be the drawing hand the I would expect to make the most money, and what do you know -- it is. I expect AQs to beat AKs because AQs allows someone else to have Kxs.
Anyway, we can discuss ad nauseaum (and sort of did); ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: AJ at March 25, 2005, 1:52 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Thanks Steve_bev for explaining, very well, I might add, that we are not talking about AA vs. AK.
As for stats...bad me! bad me! I only use PokerTracker sporadically. I only have AA in there twice and AKs 3 times, so that's no help.
------
Now for anecdotes...and this strays a little from the AA vs AKs discussion, but then again, I started off saying I preferred Axs in loose limit games (not AKs, which this quickly evolved into.) I recall a few times literally winning 100BBs in a couple of hours while playing at a single table. And the vast majority of that money came from having the nuts and getting people to cap betting on the river. Now mind you, that takes some pretty poor players, IMO, to call me like that w/o the nuts, but nonetheless...there's no way I could have comfortably kept raising and re-raising if all I had was AA, AAA, AAxx. Having Awxyzs allowed me to making a killing.
Say what you will about AA vs AKs, but I definitely prefer Axs vs. AA. An... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: steve_bev at March 25, 2005, 11:52 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Well, in my PT, in Win %, Net, Avg/Hand, and BB/hand, AKs makes more money than AA. All my stats are from playing pretty loose 1/2 tables
Code:
Win % Avg/Hand BB/Hand
AKs 75.00 3.55 1.75
AA 72.73 1.63 0.81
What's interesting, except for Win % and Net, KK beats both of those hands, so perhaps I'm an anomaly. I guess KK is one of those hands I know I can win with until a A shows up on the board, after which I can play cautiously or fold, while AA requires me to jam the pot as much as I can preflop, and ride it out. I don't think I've ever folded AA after a flop, I at least see a turn with it, and usually a river, too. KK I don't feel bad dumping if it's two bets to... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: todd at March 25, 2005, 10:16 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | | A data point: In my database (100k hands of 0.5/1, 1/2, 2/4, and 3/6); AA has been more than twice as profitable as AK. At 0.5/1, it's about exactly double. As the limits increase, the gap between AA and AK increases. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: sjguppy at March 25, 2005, 10:13 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Loke wrote: FeelingLucky wrote: I assume some people have to have AKs logged as their biggest winner, or I don't know why this discussion keeps going on
Because it beats doing work?
Finally, someone with an opinion that we can all agree on. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: FeelingLucky at March 25, 2005, 2:30 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | I think this discussion is not likely to end with everyone agreeing It is interesting to read, and I see the points of both angles.
With my own limited PokerTracker record, AA is a huge winner over AKs, like I posted before. For the rest of you, with more hands logged, does anyone have a better record with AKs? Nafanny 29 posted results from 145k hands, and it was somewhat similar to my 23k.
Not that I don't like a theoretical discussion, but if everyone is making more money with AA than with AKs, doesn't that sort of make all the "win small pots but loose big" and similar arguments kinda void?
Put together, 5-10 whores should have a massive amount of hands played, and the statistics should show a trend that should be rather reliable - right?
So far, not a lot of statistics have been posted here. And when it has, it gets discarded as not applicable for playing on the "wrong" type of tables. My smallish set of stats are mostly (probably 80% or so) from the lowest ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: steve_bev at March 25, 2005, 12:46 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: It would be a nice experiment to somehow set up a private game somewhere, with 8 randoms, TheFranchise always holding Ac Ad, and AJ always holding Ah Kh. Oh, and if we could somehow have it so that the 8 randoms are as "typical" as possible, but then without a memory of previous hands, that would be even better. I suppose good bots would do the trick...
This isn't what we're discussing, though. If your opponent has AA, you're not staying in with AK, suited or not. No one has said AK beats AA heads up, or, AK beats AA if two players are dealt these hands on a 10 person table.
What we're discussing is more like this experiment:
Code: Give TheFranchise Ac Ad one seat to the left of the button (first position), and sit him at a table with 9 random players, who "forget" each hand what TheFranchise has, and play their hands thinking he has random cards. Shuffle and deal the remaining 50 cards in the deck. Then deal the flop.&n... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Okinawa at March 24, 2005, 11:24 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Versus nine random hands, AA wins 31.1% of the time, and AKs only 20.7% of the time. Hence, if we automatically ran a simulation wherein 10 players all played to showdown, the pot size would be identical in each and every case, so a higher win percentage would equal a higher profit. Hence, AA would, quite simply, blow AKs out of the water, wouldn't it?
AJ, if I understand correctly, your main (if not sole) argument is that it is much easier to get away from AKs than from AA - and, supposedly, that this will be more than enough to make up for the fact that AA's win rate is 50% greater against nine randoms. I do not agree. It's just too big a difference to make up, presuming the guy holding AA and the guy holding AKs are of identical skill level.
In both these players' cases, significant adjustments would have to be made for the fact that no one has folded preflop. Once these adjustments are made correctly, the AA guy would have to be favorite IMO. As Franchise says, you can't just a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FeelingLucky at March 24, 2005, 4:21 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | hofdaddy wrote: http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi
Thanks man! Was surfing around and couldn't find it. Just wanted to post a hand where AA was involved in some heavy action, even though it doesn't really have anything to do with anything
Here goes.
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, A.
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.
Flop: (20.50 SB) T, 6, 4 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.
Turn: (18.25 BB) 8 (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.
River: (24.25 BB) Q (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls.
Final Pot: 27.25 BB
Results in white below:... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: hofdaddy at March 24, 2005, 4:03 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | FeelingLucky wrote: Sorry to swing even more off-topic than this entire thread is, but how the hell do I post a hand history in the forums to get it nicely converted into that more readable format? Or do you guys re-format them manually?
http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi
YW
_________________
I hate poker. I hate life. I hate you
-hofdaddy's trinity
give a woman an inch and she takes a foot. Give her a foot and she'll moan like a whore | | Static Link |
| Posted by: sjguppy at March 24, 2005, 2:40 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Loke wrote: Quote: If you are basing your reason for A,K being better in multi you also have to consider that someone has hit a small pair and you are not going to get them to fold. That means about 2/3 of the time you are behind after the flop and probably going to have to fold
Actually, that very fact is what leads some to believe you won't lose the big pots with AKs. If the flop misses you and you have to fold, so be it, you lost one small bet. AA is much harder to lay down and will often cost you much more when it's beat. For instance, a flop of 367, all hearts. Easier to lay down an AKc knowing it missed you than it is an AA. Once again, not arguing the merit of either theory, just pointing out the thinking behind some of the statements.
I understand what you are saying with this. What I have seen a lot on party but not much on crypto is where players bet right into you when high cards don't hit. Not necessarily 3 suited but just 3 mid to low cards. They assume you are... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FeelingLucky at March 24, 2005, 1:49 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | | Sorry to swing even more off-topic than this entire thread is, but how the hell do I post a hand history in the forums to get it nicely converted into that more readable format? Or do you guys re-format them manually? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Loke at March 24, 2005, 12:52 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: If you are basing your reason for A,K being better in multi you also have to consider that someone has hit a small pair and you are not going to get them to fold. That means about 2/3 of the time you are behind after the flop and probably going to have to fold
Actually, that very fact is what leads some to believe you won't lose the big pots with AKs. If the flop misses you and you have to fold, so be it, you lost one small bet. AA is much harder to lay down and will often cost you much more when it's beat. For instance, a flop of 367, all hearts. Easier to lay down an AKc knowing it missed you than it is an AA. Once again, not arguing the merit of either theory, just pointing out the thinking behind some of the statements. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: sjguppy at March 24, 2005, 10:58 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: As for AKs, they say to only raise sometimes because "..they do play well in multi-way pots."
I think you are slightly misquoting Sklansky on this. If I recall he says to raise about 2/3 of the time. This is only to keep players guessing about what you might have. This also comes from HEPFAP and this is directed at larger money games and not internet low level. If you go to Miller's book I believe that he recommends always reasing with A,Ks. There is no reason to hide your hand with so many players coming and going in a game.
I personally would rather have A,A anytime over the A,Ks. I think this multiway talk is way overstated. I play from .50-1.00 to 3-6 and rarely see loose games of 7-8 players seeing the flop, especially after a raise.
When I raise there are usually 3-4 who might stay. After that if they fold on my next bet, so be it. I got 6-8 small bets out of them plus the blinds. You also have to consider that A,K only hits a pair about 30% of ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Loke at March 24, 2005, 10:50 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | | Sounds like he's referring to the old adage, AA wins you the small pots and loses the big ones. AKs definitely has the advantage of winning some huge pots on straights and flushes. But, as noted, AA is the biggest money maker for me by far, about half my total profit. Hey, give me either and I'm happy. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: AJ at March 24, 2005, 8:57 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | It's not a mutated Doyle quote. He simply says he would rather have AK than AA. Period. He acknowledges that AA vs. AK is no contest, but then say that's not what he's talking about. And neither am I.
I'd love to look at stats, but I have to know if the stats are from "no-foldem" tables, so until we get those, it's a debate. On my side, I have Doyle. Now let's turn to Sklansky.
In talking about AA (and KK, QQ); Sklansky and Malmuth say to raise pre-flop to thin the field because "..they lose much of their value in large multi-way pots."
As for AKs, they say to only raise sometimes because "..they do play well in multi-way pots."
And that's what this post started as: a discussion of multi-way pots.
Now lets look at a monte carlo simulation from a hand ranking tool. The top 20 starting hands for different amount of opponents, are the following:
Rank Opponents
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
1 AA AA AA ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FeelingLucky at March 24, 2005, 7:09 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | I only have 22.5k hands logged in my PT, but AA is way out ahead in winnings - both win%, money made, and BB/hand average. It has won over 81% of the time, over 10% ahead of nr 2 (AKs)...
I am not a stat freak in any way, so don't know what the "real" averages "should" be like, and I am aware 22.5k hands is a very limited amount. Hell, I've only gotten AA a little over 100 times.
Still, it is almost double the BB/Hand made by AKs, and over 3 times more than any other hand (except KK who also earns well). Probably I could have played some AKs hands better, increasing their statistics. But judging from what I have logged (most of it on Party $0.5/1 and $1/2); I'll happily take the aces any day | | Static Link |
| Posted by: nafanny29 at March 24, 2005, 6:08 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Glad I posted my pokertracker stats because thats the only memory I now have of them.
I foolishly thought I was competent enough to partition my hard drive to have two OS and I now know I am not!! Lost all my PT data for the last 15 months.
So PISSED OFF
_________________
chance favours the prepared mind | | Static Link |
| Posted by: TheFranchise at March 24, 2005, 1:01 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | I wasn't using AK as an example. I was using AKs as an example since your main argument is having a flush draw against a lot of people. Well, what better flush draw hand than AKs?
Where does Doyle say he'd rather have AK against NINE other hands when one of those hands is AA?
This is bordering on stupid. AA beats the crap out of AK as well as AKs, no matter how many opponents there are. (What hand would you prefer to have besides one of those? 89s with a miracle flop?) There is NO data that shows otherwise. Show me any data besides a mutated Doyle statement that shows otherwise.
Someone go ahead and tell me you'd rather have AKs (or whatever) instead of AA. Anyone? Go ahead. If you do, you're wrong. Look at those PT stats again. Nothing is even close. NOT EVEN CLOSE. I am tired of the issue, and anyone who doesn't understand it can go ahead and lose money. Every stat in the world is for AA, and other hands only have opinions to help them win. If you put yo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: hofdaddy at March 23, 2005, 9:39 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Grinder wrote: hofdaddy - now I see you strategy. I never read any of your posts as my eyes wander over tot the babe! damn you.
Damn her straight to my bed! I suppose it's probably good that you don't read my posts anyway cause they are usually chock full of stupidity anyway
_________________
I hate poker. I hate life. I hate you
-hofdaddy's trinity
give a woman an inch and she takes a foot. Give her a foot and she'll moan like a whore | | Static Link |
| Posted by: AJ at March 23, 2005, 9:04 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: Also, and more importantly, once again, I'd like to know if Doyle says in his book that he'd rather have AK over AA if he knows every time he has AK one of his opponents has AA. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he probably has never said that.
Here's what he said.
Quote: Of course, I know that an A-K would never outrun A-A or K-K if you played them against one another hot and cold....But I'm not talking about playing hot and cold here. Now I'm talking about playing poker.
He addressed that. We're not talking about AK vs AA heads up. It's not more important (as you said above). We're talking about AA vs. 9 random hands and AK vs. 9 random hands. In that situation, Doyle Brunson thinks AK is better than AA. You can think what you want, but I think I'll take Doyle's side.
Quote: You paid multiple bets preflop with your AKs, which you probably would have wanted to do anyway if you didn't know you were up against AA, and then th... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: TheFranchise at March 17, 2005, 3:00 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | AJ wrote: What I meant was that, yes, I think my argument applies best to limit poker (where you can't punish me too hard for drawing to my flush) and to multi-way pots, where, again, it makes more sense to play to drawing hands. And given all that, what do you know, Doyle even thinks it applies to no limit games! Tight ones too! So heck, if he thinks that (and yes, I respect his writing) about tight, no limit games, then I think it would be even more true for loose limit games..
Let's say you like dogs because they make good house pets. Let's say Doyle likes dogs because they make good guards for his estate. You both like dogs, but for different reasons in different situations. The house-pet dog wouldn't be of much value guarding his estate. The same concept applies here.
Also, and more importantly, once again, I'd like to know if Doyle says in his book that he'd rather have AK over AA if he knows every time he has AK one of his opponents has AA. I'm going to go out o... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: AJ at March 17, 2005, 9:47 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | We could debate this forever, so I'm not going to go into a lot of detail, but....
TheFranchise wrote:
You disregard nafanny's PT data because all hands aren't nine players to the flop, but, even though you qualify the quotes by saying Doyle is clearly not talking about nine-to-the-flop nor limit, (which I assume is the main game talked about here); you give Doyle credit anyway.
What I meant was that, yes, I think my argument applies best to limit poker (where you can't punish me too hard for drawing to my flush) and to multi-way pots, where, again, it makes more sense to play to drawing hands. And given all that, what do you know, Doyle even thinks it applies to no limit games! Tight ones too! So heck, if he thinks that (and yes, I respect his writing) about tight, no limit games, then I think it would be even more true for loose limit games.
TheFranchise wrote:
Another thing about the "AA won't win big pots" thing: if that many people ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: TheFranchise at March 12, 2005, 1:24 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | AJ wrote: we all know that he knows more than all of us combined, right? So...end of discussion.
Most people would say Sklansky wrote the book on limit holdem, but he also wrote that you shouldn't raise JJ against multiple preflop limpers. That discussion is still going on for some people. Many known experts made fun of Gary Carson's book for its advice on playing against crazy-loose opponents, and now those same experts tend not to say much on that issue anymore. Or, some of them now sell best-selling books with similar themes and are nice enough to include footnotes to Carson's book.
You disregard nafanny's PT data because all hands aren't nine players to the flop, but, even though you qualify the quotes by saying Doyle is clearly not talking about nine-to-the-flop nor limit, (which I assume is the main game talked about here); you give Doyle credit anyway.
Talking about AA only being in big pots against two-pair or better, it's going to be a big pot ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: AJ at March 10, 2005, 10:59 pm | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Alright, here's the definitive answer. Seriously. This is from Doyle Brunson, right out of Super System 2. And whereas I was thinking mostly in terms of loose limit games, this is from his section on no limit, and he's clearly not talking about tables where 50% of the people see the flop. Quote: ...I'd rather have A-K than either a pair of aces or a pair of kings....Of course, I know that an A-K would never outrun A-A or K-K if you played them against one another hot and cold....But I'm not talking about playing hot and cold here. Now I'm talking about playing poker. An A-K is a better hand than two aces or two kings for two very important reasons:
1. You'll win more money when you make a hand with it.
2. You'll lose less money when you miss a hand with it. Doyle goes on with more analysis, but in all seriousness: we all know that he knows more than all of us combined, right? So...end of discussion.
Excellent discussion, guys. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: AJ at March 10, 2005, 10:02 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | nafanny29 wrote: Hi AJ, my pokertracker data is all from crypto $1/$2 limit (10 seater tables).
The average number of players seeing the flop overall was 31.15% and the average pot was $10.27.
And I would expect AA to win the most money in those situations. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: nafanny29 at March 10, 2005, 9:07 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Hi AJ, my pokertracker data is all from crypto $1/$2 limit (10 seater tables).
The average number of players seeing the flop overall was 31.15% and the average pot was $10.27.
_________________
chance favours the prepared mind | | Static Link |
| Posted by: AJ at March 10, 2005, 8:41 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | | And yes, if you look at PokerTracker, you'll see AA winning the most money. But do those stats include ONLY Party Poker type pots where 50-60% of the people saw the flop? Or are you including pots where it's only you and the big blind? I thought this discussion was about the effects of schooling, and that case, we can only use stats were approx. 50% of the people are seeing the flop. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: AJ at March 10, 2005, 8:36 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | Subby wrote: AJ wrote: AA against 9 other hands is not favored to win. In fact, Axs or Kxs would have a better chance.
No.
I agree that AA is favored over Axs and Kxs. What I do not agree is that it's EV is higher. If you have AA, unless you get trips, you have to worry that no one gets two pair, trips, a straight or a flush. If I have Axs and make my draw, I WANT people to make two pair, trips, a straight or flush, so that the pot will get big. You're rarely going to get a monster pot unless someone at least has two pair or trips. And in a case like that you want an even bigger hand. Axs is more likely to provide that than is AA.
So yes, AA will win more often. It won't win more money...in multiway pots. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: nafanny29 at March 10, 2005, 7:34 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | On my pokertracker (145000 hands) AA has made me 50% more $ than any other hand.
AA Dealt 540 times. AKs 410 times
AA Won 81.48%, AKs 60.78%
Took AA to showdown 70.37% and won at showdon 73.68%.
Took AKs to showdown 40.00% and won at showdown 60.00%
AA net profit $2657.52
AKs $620.10
No other had comes close to AA. (Bar J7o in the BB took to showdown only once and won with 4 Jacks )
Even AKo, KK, QQ and AQo are bigger earners for me than AKs, proberly because you dont get dealt AKs very often compared to AKo.
So when I see AA in my pocket I dont mind throwing my chips in the pot against 1 or 9 playes, the more the better. And I chuck it on the flop sometimes like we all do.
Anyway thats my 2c
_________________
chance favours the prepared mind | | Static Link |
| Posted by: hackmage at March 10, 2005, 6:20 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | AJ wrote: II've heard it said before (not sure if it was about AA...maybe KK or QQ): it's a hand that can win a little money or lose a lot.
SS1 NL section, where he talks about why he likes AK more than AA or KK. On that note, AA is still really strong in LHE because of it's limit structure. On scary flops you can pick off bluffs without losing much. I'm still surprised by how often an overpair wins online, especially 6 max.
This doesn't mean it's a powerhouse and I've folded AA on the flop in a very large pot, and it was the correct move. This just means it's exceptionally strong PF, and 90% of the time on the flop, but it can still be a loser. I have read quite a few different accounts where large pairs like this can cause huge losses in the long run if not played properly.
So, in conclusion, love thy rockets but don't get attached cus then the bitch will want alimony/child support. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: TheFranchise at March 10, 2005, 5:44 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | AJ wrote: But here's my thinking...if I have AQs, and you have AA, and you raise pre-flop, I'm probably just calling. I doubt you'll get 4 bets pre-flop (and if you do, they're small bets, not big bets). So most likely, you get two bets in pre-flop. Then, if I don't hit my draw and get correct pot odds on the flop, I'm out. If I do hit my draw and get correct pot odds, well, that's obviously a winning proposition.
I'd have to be a bonehead to keep calling/raising you if I know you hit your draw.
Yes, if you don't have odds on the flop. you can safely fold. But you *already* put in 2-4 bets that I have a good chance of winning. I made you pay more than you wanted to to try to beat me with an inferior hand. You put in 2-4 bets and folded, but I'm still there with a chance to win it.
Yes, if you have correct pot odds you will win a good pot when you hit, but let's say you have a flush draw... you are 2:1 on the flop to hit, and are 4:1 on the turn to hi... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: TheFranchise at March 10, 2005, 5:27 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | hofdaddy wrote: Say the board reads 5c5sQd. Do you seriously think one of the 9 people aren't holding one if not both of those 5's? A's are the best hand PREFLOP! Not after the flop always or even after the river. Sometimes you just have to throw those cards into the muck and try again later. All you will leave with is a bruised ego and less money that what you started with. Don't be one of those guys who thinks A's are indestructable.
Aaargh. This isn't about raising AA every round to the river when you know you're beat. AA will be beat lots of times by nine opponents. (According to this thread, 75% of the time.) Doesn't matter. You guys keep quoting win% numbers but aren't quoting won$ numbers. I don't care if AA gets beat 3/4 of the time if the other 1/4 of the time I'm taking down NINE other players' money. Don't you see how HUGE an advantage that is?
I know Steve_Bev gets it but his posts dance around the issue.
Are you guys looking at your PT stat... | | Read Entire Entry |
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