| Posted by: Jim Morrison at July 22, 2005, 1:21 pm | | Topic: Proper Tournament and SnG "All in" Situations Forum: Bonus Whores | FeelingLucky wrote: In general I find it easier to make the decision preflop - you have a clear sense of how good your hand is then. On a flop that you just barely hit (or maybe even hit well - say top pair) and someone pushes all-in... I seem to make bad calls sometimes with my overpair or whatever against a flopped set or two pair... then again I fold the best hand at times when people turn out to push their open ended straight draw...
It is easier making the decision preflop. Post flop play is much tougher but it's also the most important part of the game. I wish I could recommend a good SNG book to you but none comes to mind. I'm not a fan of too many poker books but I would highly recommend you read Dan Harrington's books. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jim Morrison at July 22, 2005, 1:17 pm | | Topic: Proper Tournament and SnG "All in" Situations Forum: Bonus Whores | thefish8 wrote: Blind structure should not matter, unless it is one of those ridiculous speed tournaments, so I disagree with you there.
I totally disagree. Blind structure matters a lot. Take the WSOP event I played in. Blind levels were 60 minutes giving good players time to play and make their moves without being forced to because of blinds. On your average online tournament blinds are pretty fast and you have to weigh that into your thinking. You don't want to force a decision too early yet you don't want to wait until you are severely short stacked either. In a Party or Bodog SNG the blinds really suck. Every 10 hands they go up. Once it gets to the 50/100 level I play much more aggressive because if I don't the blinds are going to eat my stack to the point where I cannot make the moves I want to.
thefish8 wrote:
I would rather take this approach early in a tournament to save time, but it would be hard to make a call like that since you have very littl... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: macman at July 22, 2005, 10:27 am | | Topic: Proper Tournament and SnG "All in" Situations Forum: Bonus Whores | I think in general, if your "tourney life" hinges on the all in, you would prefer to avoid a coin flip. In other words, if your opponent has your stack covered, why would you go all in with AK vs. his 77?
Obviously, this rule is not hard and fast. Let's say your on the bubble in an SnG (or an MTT for that matter) and the blinds have reached the point where they are greater than 10% of your stack. Clearly, in most cases, you will need to find a spot to make a play.
There are so many other considerations though it is impossible to cover in this type of forum. Read some books (Sklansky, Harrington are two that quickly come to mind). What are your pocket cards? What is your position at the table? How big is your stack? How big is the stack you are calling/raising against? If you are a small stack, is there a huge stack left to play that is likely to call if he has anything? What are the blinds vs your stack size? If you have AA, KK or QQ, will going all in decrease the number of ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thefish8 at July 22, 2005, 10:23 am | | Topic: Proper Tournament and SnG "All in" Situations Forum: Bonus Whores | Cha Ngo wrote: I think Sklansky says that if you are out-classed in the tournament then you welcome the coinflip situation. If you are better than the competition, then wait for a bigger edge. Like Jim said, it is much better to bet all-in than call. And then there are stack size relative to the blinds considerations. Post a specific example for better response.
You can't always wait though, especially in a SnG because you will get blinded. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: thefish8 at July 22, 2005, 10:18 am | | Topic: Proper Tournament and SnG "All in" Situations Forum: Bonus Whores | Blind structure should not matter, unless it is one of those ridiculous speed tournaments, so I disagree with you there. Here is a hypothetical that I hope will give you a better idea.
Say you are heads up and are a 60% favorite. So 3 out of 5 times in this situation you will win. In a cash game you will take this situation everytime since in the long run you will be ahead. In the same tournament though, this situation can potentially happen 4 or 5 times, so you will eventually get drawn out at least once. And in the case of a tournament, this will eliminate you.
I would rather take this approach early in a tournament to save time, but it would be hard to make a call like that since you have very little information about the other players early on. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: FeelingLucky at July 22, 2005, 10:17 am | | Topic: Proper Tournament and SnG "All in" Situations Forum: Bonus Whores | I have been playing quite a bit of SnG's lately, and am liking them a lot. Never liked NL play before, but playing in a tournament format makes it a lot more fun.
I feel like I have lots to learn though - and this topic is definately an interesting one. I have often found myself backing out of early preflop all-ins with what turned out to be the best hand.
Probably just my severe lack of NL experience and know-how (have only studied limit books and play, so far) - all ins make me uncomfortable unless I feel I have a really good hand. At least until it is shorthanded or heads up.
In general I find it easier to make the decision preflop - you have a clear sense of how good your hand is then. On a flop that you just barely hit (or maybe even hit well - say top pair) and someone pushes all-in... I seem to make bad calls sometimes with my overpair or whatever against a flopped set or two pair... then again I fold the best hand at times when people turn out to push their open ended ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Cha Ngo at July 22, 2005, 10:10 am | | Topic: Proper Tournament and SnG "All in" Situations Forum: Bonus Whores | I think Sklansky says that if you are out-classed in the tournament then you welcome the coinflip situation. If you are better than the competition, then wait for a bigger edge. Like Jim said, it is much better to bet all-in than call. And then there are stack size relative to the blinds considerations. Post a specific example for better response.
_________________
I'm gonna change my name to Hannibal
Or maybe just Rex | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jim Morrison at July 22, 2005, 9:50 am | | Topic: Proper Tournament and SnG "All in" Situations Forum: Bonus Whores | thefish8 wrote: My main question: is it proper to move all in or call an all in when you know for certain you are at least a slight favorite in the hand? (assuming heads up and losing would severly cripple or put you out of the game)
I know the answer is yes for cash games, but am not sure it is worth risking chips in a tournament. Obviously if you or the opponent are short stacked, the answer is also yes. I've read many SnG articles but have never seen this issue really addressed. Thanks.
It depends.
Really not enough info in your question. During a Party or Bodog SNG where the blinds go up every 10 hands then yes there is a certain point that you move allin on someone if you are certain you are a slight favorite in a coin toss type situation. No reason to risk your tourney early on though if you are only a slight favorite.
As for calling an all-in, I'd rather move allin than call one unless I was sure I had the guy beat. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: thefish8 at July 22, 2005, 9:03 am | | Topic: Proper Tournament and SnG "All in" Situations Forum: Bonus Whores | My main question: is it proper to move all in or call an all in when you know for certain you are at least a slight favorite in the hand? (assuming heads up and losing would severly cripple or put you out of the game)
I know the answer is yes for cash games, but am not sure it is worth risking chips in a tournament. Obviously if you or the opponent are short stacked, the answer is also yes. I've read many SnG articles but have never seen this issue really addressed. Thanks. | | Static Link |
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