| Posted by: FeelingLucky at August 28, 2005, 9:30 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | I started off a bit badly at the $1/2 tables for the Empire reload, so I decided I needed a change... Played the $25 buyin pot-limit tables - something I've never attempted before (been strictly limit, for cash games). Enough of a change to make it fun, cheap enough to have fun gambling it, and actually profitable (both from play and bonus) despite my lack of experience.
If you're having a bad run, play some 7 stud, SnGs, swap limits or whatever can help get your mind off things and entertain you enough to focus on the game again. I went from a slump to having fun and being profitable - have mixed it up with some other limits/shorthand etc too. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: derek at August 28, 2005, 8:33 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | this month i'm at -300BB at 1/2 this is by far the worst in my 2+ years playing.
oddly at 2/4 and 3/6 i'm up I think it is a lot easier to tilt when the amount of money you are losing doesn't mean that much to you.-300bb at 1/2 and i'm pissed off -300 at 5/10 and I can't pay my bills for the month :shock:It is also much worse if you are tilting playing 4 tables at a time.It becomes harder to notice and you don't have the free time between hands to take a deep breath and calm yourself down. I'm going to take a few day off do a little reading and regroup.I think i'll also cut back to 2 tables until this streak turns around. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: porkrind at August 18, 2005, 7:48 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | I have to say thank you to all of you who admitted to extended deep losing streaks. These forums are always full of people claiming 'astronomical' success at poker. My faith in BW is confirmed. BTW, to all the usual flamers thanks for allowing this discussion to progress in a civilized manner without dropping it into a insult/humiliate/N00bie bash thread.
Whore On!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Loke at August 18, 2005, 2:19 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quick264 wrote: For a couple of weeks now, I have been in a losing streak, totalling about 200 BB. I've put a 30 BB stop loss in, taken a few days off, and went back to the books. Lone behold, I've been making some minor, subtle post flop mistakes that I might have not noticed if I kept plowing ahead.
I understand stepping back and examining your play. I understand learning more from losing than winning. But I find it hard to believe that "minor, subtle" mistakes lead to 200 BB losing streaks. Either you had more than minor errors or there was a bit more going on, bad cards, bad beats, etc. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Quick264 at August 15, 2005, 10:08 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | For a couple of weeks now, I have been in a losing streak, totalling about 200 BB. I've put a 30 BB stop loss in, taken a few days off, and went back to the books. Lone behold, I've been making some minor, subtle post flop mistakes that I might have not noticed if I kept plowing ahead. I learn more about poker in losing streaks than when I'm winning. I look forward to additional winnings when the cards finally smooth out
Quick264 | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Grinder at August 8, 2005, 11:53 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | ThuNd3r - I hate to burst your bubble but you are playing at 3 times World Class play. 9600 hands is a small amount. HOPE you know that.
Have you run into "The Streak" yet. When you do - just remember the good times and get through it. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: ThuNd3r at August 7, 2005, 9:35 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | | I must be doing something right.. up 970 for play after 9200 hands on absolute 3/6. With bonus and rakeback up 2000. Just curious any bonuswhore forum posters play regularly at absolute 2/4, 3/6, and 5/10 and if so what's your nicks? The only use I see for poker tracker is for massive multi tabling when you can't pay attention to the players and need a quick read on whether the opponent is either tight or loose and passive or aggressive. I just bought a 2nd monitor and new video card so now I can play up to 8 tables so I will purchase poker tracker soon along with gametime or playerview. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at August 7, 2005, 8:52 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | | I have to admit that as someone who is battling to reach even due to my early wild days that limit is not something mastered overnight either.I am down 50BB on the most recent Party chase,and this is with books and PT at my side along with various forum feedback. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: solring at August 7, 2005, 2:35 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | Oh...and I forgot to add...from 11/13/2004 through 3/9/2005, I had a -483BB losing streak covering 19,000 hands.
It's taken 35,000 hands since then to make all of it back.
Of course, I *know* that I'm a below-average player.
_________________
Tony May aka Baseballer02 aka Meeesterhat - I want my f*ing monitors. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: solring at August 7, 2005, 2:02 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | I have five problems with OP's posts:
Problem #1:
ThuNd3r wrote: I don't use poker tracker. For the love of &diety, why not?
Problem #2:
ThuNd3r wrote: I've played around 7500 hands on absolute 3/6 and 2/4 limit and am up $1325($650(bonus)+$230(rakeback)+ $445(play)). The only number in this sentence that means anything is the last one. Bonus and rakeback are nice boosts to the bankroll, but they are not a gauge for how you are doing. $445 = 110 2/4 BBs. Since you're split across both 2/4 and 3/6, let's call it 90BB. That's comes out to 1.2BB/100 hands. Not a fantastic number, but reasonable.
Problem #3:
ThuNd3r wrote: Sorry about coming off as arrogant. I mean as far as the stuff you can memorize and do the over and over again like your preflop starting hands and post flop play of top pair, draw hands, and big hands.. I don't feel like there is much room for improvement. There is always something more to learn, as all the pros w... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Grinder at August 7, 2005, 7:42 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | My SD is 13.8BB and I buy in for about 45BBs. If I lose 25 I'm looking for reason to shut it down and regroup.
EVERYBODY tilts once they hit a losing point - you might not notice it and it might be subtle but it happens. All of a sudden you will call down instead of raising, or limp in instead of raising, or riase instead of calling.
It happens and remember - you are always walking a find edge. a 2BB/100 average will sink fast with 1 oops! per 100 hands. Thats ONE mistake every 1.5 hours a Party. You can't afford to make it. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: J-Dogg at August 7, 2005, 4:26 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | | FYI, my standard deviation is normally around 12BB. Sometimes in a crazy session it swings 20-25 but 99% of the time I know if it's more than that, then I need to seriously evaluate my playing and state of mind. I only buy in for around 20 to 30BB for this purpose like someone else said. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: J-Dogg at August 7, 2005, 4:22 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | Dude, you sound like a straight-up gambler, not a poker player. And if you really can't pull yourself away from a losing session without trying to break even, then I'd say you're a gambler with a serious problem.
Have you read any books or even webpages on how to play poker? Do you know what pot odds are for a start?
I like limit because my swings are small and consistent. I've been down 100BB before and vice-versa. That's why you have a bankroll. If you're a winning player, it'll even out in the long run. If you're not, you'll just keep losing. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: frozone at August 5, 2005, 7:07 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | | 100 BB in a day is well within reason of bad luck .. I've had probably 10 -100BB days and my biggest extreme in the past year was -300 BB over two days - compounded by maniacs and tilt. Just take a day off if you must, go over your books again and have faith in your ability. In a week, you'll probably have won it all back and then some and it'll funny how you got so worked up over "again" after one bad session of tilt. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: IceboxCharlie at August 3, 2005, 6:21 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | I agree with the stop loss position.The way I do it is that I know about how much I can make on an average night at x/x stakes.I stop when I lose 1/2
of what I should be winning.I think of it as taking 2 steps forward and only one back instead of the whole 2.That way I'm still moving forward.I've found that if I go past the 1/2 mark,it almost always gets worse.
_________________
Just for the record jumping my ass is -EV and the WR is a quadzillion and the HA is 99.9% | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Grinder at August 3, 2005, 11:36 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | Every single time I have had a very bad run - I step down a level and look at my game and I ALWAYS find that I have tilted slightly with out knowing it. I might ge more conservitive. Afraid to raise AGAIN to peortct my hand or fold more often with a winner.
Goin to a lower level to "have fun" again really helps.
You can't play good poker if you are not having fun. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: FeelingLucky at August 3, 2005, 11:15 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | ThuNd3r wrote: I'm so stubborn that when I'm having a bad streak I just keep playing until I come back or get back to break even. It ended up taking me like 20 hours of playing straight but I almost did it until I just fell a sleep because I was so tired.
Personally I don't think this is a good idea. Even if you credit yourself with making your standard "routine" decisions even during a really painful bad run, I am convinced it is -EV to play when you are in such a slump. Poker is never 100% easy decisions, and I believe even the very very best players are affected by bad runs/bad beats. They tilt.
I don't mean the loose-your-head-bet/raise-everything-aggression-tilt though (not many people go that ballistic); but I definately believe your decision making process is being affected. The fact that you came here to post about it, and the fact that you counted the number of times your aces got cracked, both suggest that you were getting emotional about the results (imho). That has to pr... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Grinder at August 3, 2005, 8:53 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | It depends how long you are talking about. My WORST in 4 years was a 200BB in 3/6 in one week - about 20 table hours of play. I've gone through several 100BB in the past few years.
Worst I have heard is from a online pro player David Ross who lost 512BB in 10/20 in one week.
THAT has to hurt!!
Think of it NOT as a streak but as a set back - it happens but it alwasy comes back and NORMALLY in a rush! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: todd at August 3, 2005, 3:31 am | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | A typical game has an SD/100 of 12 BB. Suppose you are a long-term 1BB/100 winner in this game.
Over the course of 32400 hands, losing 324 BB is precisely a -3 sigma event.
The advice to keep a 300+ BB bankroll isn't a psychological one. It's a mathematical one. There is a very real chance that even a winning player loses 300+ BB. 200+BB losses by winners happen quite often.
If you are playing in a shorthanded game or some other kind of game with more variance, or if you're a smaller winner than 1BB/100, your situation is even worse than the one I described above.
Of course, if you're winning more than 1BB/100 and/or have an SD/100 < 12 BB, your situation may be better than the one described above, but I don't know how many posters on this board meet that description. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: ThuNd3r at August 2, 2005, 8:05 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | Sorry about coming off as arrogant. I mean as far as the stuff you can memorize and do the over and over again like your preflop starting hands and post flop play of top pair, draw hands, and big hands.. I don't feel like there is much room for improvement. Bluffing is impossible to memorize/master because it's an art and is done through feeling based on player reads. Also knowing when other people are bluffing and making the call/raise is also impossible to master. So I admit "mastered" is too strong of word.
Yesterday I played about 1800 hands straight. I'm so stubborn that when I'm having a bad streak I just keep playing until I come back or get back to break even. It ended up taking me like 20 hours of playing straight but I almost did it until I just fell a sleep because I was so tired. At the very low point I was down 100BB($600) excluding bonus and rakeback. I ended up bouncing back eventually to being down only 50 BB from play. However thanks to bonus and rakeback I ended up being only down... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Aust1227 at August 2, 2005, 7:18 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | My worst stretch yet has been a helacious month at Crypto. -142 BB. Stats to follow.
HANDS 2814
VPIP 20.18
VPISB 55
SFAH 24.8
Attempt to steal 21.8
Won money when saw flop 41.55
Pre flop raise 9.3
Total AF 2.13
BB/100 -5.6
Those numbers are GREAT (for me, some might not like them) (PT ranks then at eagle, although the 20.1 is close to smiley face); almost exactly where i want to be. So how the hell did i lose 143 BB? I am still trying to figure that out. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: tarheel1 at August 2, 2005, 6:20 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | ThuNd3r wrote: I think I've pretty much mastered limit to the extent where the only area that can improve my game is using reads on other players to make the right decisions. I've played around 7500 hands on absolute 3/6 and 2/4 limit
I think mastering limit in 7500 hands is an awesome. hell I played 7500 hands in July I am no where near mastering limit. I recomend saying you can tear up the 3/6 2/4 limit game at absolute rather than I have mastered limit. Take your game on the road to other sites if you have the same results at other sites at 100,000 hands I will credit your advanced ability.
_________________
blah blah blah | | Static Link |
| Posted by: HPB at August 2, 2005, 6:14 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | I admit, I wanted to just be mean and ask what poker room and what your name was there...
Any limit player that claims they have mastered the game and can only improve by using reads on other players to make the right decisions needs to re-evaluate their game. I'm not trying to be mean, just suggesting that perhaps you should take a more critical look at your game, you might find more room for improvement than you think. 100BB seems awful high to me... | | Static Link |
| Posted by: ed209 at August 2, 2005, 5:55 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | | if your numbers are on point then your win rate is about $6 per 100 hands, which is 1.0-1.5BB/100 depending on which limit you've logged more time at. without the ability to judge either your pre or post-flop play, this number indicates that you can at least hold your own, though perhaps not dominate the tables you play. so then, the negative 100BB session you played, is that already factored in to your current $445 play profit figure, or was that just before the 100BB's down? either way, you blew somewhere between half or all of your in-play earnings of 7500 hands in a single day, so evaluation of some sort must be in order. unfortunately, with PT you then lack the ability to determine potential leaks in your starting hand selection, post-flop aggression, blind defenses and steals, whether you think you have leaks or not. and also you don't have any saved hands you can replay or share with others for feedback. if you raised preflop with AA and called down a flop check-raise to showdown, that's only 4-5BB's... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Cha Ngo at August 2, 2005, 5:22 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | I am in the 30BB stop loss camp.
If I am running that badly, there is something going on regardless of how I feel I am playing. I just quit right there and come back the next day. You might tweak that number up for four tabling, but I think setting a limit for how much you are willing to lose in a session is OK. Mathematically, the stop loss makes no sense. Psychologically, I'm sold.
_________________
I'm gonna change my name to Hannibal
Or maybe just Rex | | Static Link |
| Posted by: ThuNd3r at August 2, 2005, 4:55 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | | I don't use poker tracker. I started with .5/1 and 1/2 and did all the bonuses I could possibly do then when I ran out I went to absolute and tried to work on my limit game at 2/4 and 3/6. I think I've pretty much mastered limit to the extent where the only area that can improve my game is using reads on other players to make the right decisions. I've played around 7500 hands on absolute 3/6 and 2/4 limit and am up $1325($650(bonus)+$230(rakeback)+ $445(play)). There's no way I drop 100BB just from bad cards. The only way I drop 100 BB is I get great cards and constantly lose to worse cards who hit the board. All I'll say is I counted Pocket A's being cracked 5 times consecutively in arow and 4 of those times were to lower pocket pairs hitting sets on the flop where I called down check raises. I'll usually fold to check raises with only top pair but overcard pocket pair? How can you fold that with no obvious potential draw hand hitting the board.. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: ed209 at August 2, 2005, 2:54 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | for LHE I usually buy in for 25BB's, so to lose 100BB's in a session I'd have to get completely cleaned out on all four tables, or lose multiple rebuys on the same table (though, why rebuy on a table that just took 25BB's from you).
on June 25th, looks like I lost 65BB's in a really retarded session on a party skin, but that was at 50c/$1. otherwise, it's rare that I'm losing big at all four tables at the same time, AND still sticking around. on the sites where you generally play higher limits to clear bonuses (PS, UB, PR, Bodog); the occasional 3-digit downswings can hurt, but it's usually offset by another table which is doing better than the others. and certainly I should expect to do no less than the bonus amount by the time it is cleared, or perhaps just slightly below.
I'd say negative 20-30BB sessions are normal and tolerable. 50BB's and up in a single session should definitely trigger some evaluation of your game. I did notice that you've only been posting regularly here for ab... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FeelingLucky at August 2, 2005, 1:11 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | Don't know about what to expect really, but I dropped 80 BB in less than 2 hours at a Crypto today. Good hands ending up as second best all the time. With crappy cards you drain money slowly - with deceivingly good-looking cards, you can end up in trouble
Lets hope tomorrow brings a +100 BB swing for us both, eh? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: ThuNd3r at August 2, 2005, 1:06 pm | | Topic: Average cold streak for limit.. 100 BB normal? Forum: Bonus Whores | | What's the worst down swing I should expect and is normal every couple of months? Yesterday I experienced my first 100 BB downswing on 3/6 and damn it felt horrible. The down swings were averaging about 20-30 BB for me so dropping 100 BB I couldn't believe my eyes and my luck. | | Static Link |
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